Line Combos: The Hunt for EJ's Left Handed Man

[Pokecheque]

One guy who might be available is Toni Lydman. Not sure he'd be a good bet seeing as how he's already on the wrong side of 35, but he's a left-handed shot and solid two-way defender. Could be a good fit, especially if Anaheim is crunched for cap space with the two recent re-signings. I always liked him when he was on the Flames and thought Calgary made a huge mistake when they traded him.

 

[InjuredChoker]

One guy who might be available is Toni Lydman. Not sure he'd be a good bet seeing as how he's already on the wrong side of 35, but he's a left-handed shot and solid two-way defender. Could be a good fit, especially if Anaheim is crunched for cap space with the two recent re-signings. I always liked him when he was on the Flames and thought Calgary made a huge mistake when they traded him.

Two-way? Lydman? I think he's still solid but he's no two-way guy.

 

[Nzap]

No one except for myself apparently wants to trade our 1st it seems,

No I think we could trade that pick for sure. But we sure as hell should get something great in return as it seems to be a top-5 pick at least.

 

[Freudian]

He's a defender. He's left handed. He's Greg Zanon.

 

[AslanRH]

No I think we could trade that pick for sure. But we sure as hell should get something great in return as it seems to be a top-5 pick at least.

I agree obviously. This team could fill MULTIPLE holes with that pick. Even if the target is a top pair LHD. Also, if the target is a top 4 LHD, that just adds value to what other pieces would come back.

This team is young but have the core top players in place to build a winner around.

Current---------1996------------2001
Center
Duchene--------Sakic-----------Sakic
Stastny---------Forsberg-------Forsberg
O'Reilly---------Ricci------------Yelle

LW
Landeskog-----Kamenski------Tanguay
_________-----Keene----------Drury(?)
McGinn----------Rychel---------Nieminen/Messier (?)

RW
Parenteau------Lemeiux--------Hejduk
Downie---------Deadmarsh-----Reid
Jones-----------Young-----------Podein

D
Johnson--------Foote------------Foote
________------Lefebvre--------Borque
Barrie-----------Ozolinsh--------Blake
Hejda-----------Gusarov--------Klemm

G
Varlamov--------Roy------------Roy

Can talent get upgraded? ---sure, but the team is not missing the "franchise" player, just have some holes that need filled with some "good-very good" players.

Time to find a coach, fill a couple holes, and start filling the building with Avalanche fans by being competitive again.

before flaming me about the list, it is not based on talent level, but merely top 3/4 players at positions. 1996 & 2001 are just best as I recall and may be off a bit.

 

[Ivan13]

Deadmarsh wasn't a part of the roster that won the '01 SC, he was traded for Blake.

 

[AslanRH]

Deadmarsh wasn't a part of the roster that won the '01 SC, he was traded for Blake.

Thanks, will fix.

 

[Nihiliste]

Johnson--------Foote------------Foote
________------Lefebvre--------Borque
Barrie-----------Ozolinsh--------Blake
Hejda-----------Gusarov--------Klemm

And that right there is our problem.

Seeing Barrie stacked up next to Ozolinsh/Blake...

 

[5280]

And that right there is our problem.

Seeing Barrie stacked up next to Ozolinsh/Blake...

____ next to Bourque is pretty money, too.

 

[MikeC]

D
Johnson--------Foote------------Foote
________------Lefebvre--------Borque
Barrie-----------Ozolinsh--------Blake
Hejda-----------Gusarov--------Klemm

When I see Bourque on 1 side and nothing between Johnson and Barrie. I just want to yell

We need a first pairing dman badly

3 Solutions:

1. UFA (Streit, Smid or Hainsey) .... Streit would be a huge + on the power play but he is just a little bit below average defensively. Smid and Hainsey would be excellent on the second pairing, they are not 1rst pair dmen but excellent 2nd pair dmen.

2. Trade our first pick ( I am totally against it unless we grab a OEL in that trade)... Yandle is not worth a 1rst. Yes he would be a huge upgrade but I would not give a
1rst for a guy that can not play the PK. So to trade my first for Yandle, the Yotes have to add big time.

3.Trade Statsny ++++ (please send Jones with him)

 

[Ivan13]

The thing with Streit is that he plays on the right side, he looks out of place on the left.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

No I think we could trade that pick for sure. But we sure as hell should get something great in return as it seems to be a top-5 pick at least.

I think there's no chance they trade the 1st rounder, which looks headed for a top 5 pick, and they'd be crazy to do so. This team isn't close enough to winning to trade that for immediate help, especially after no first rounded last year.

 

[Nzap]

I think there's no chance they trade the 1st rounder, which looks headed for a top 5 pick, and they'd be crazy to do so. This team isn't close enough to winning to trade that for immediate help, especially after no first rounded last year.

They'd be crazy also not trying to finally fill that void on our defense. If the top-5 pick can fill that void and bring in other solid piece(s) then it should be worth considering.

 

[henchman21]

I already miss our new friend.

 

[MvpKinnon]

If we suddenly turn it around and go on a hot streak...


Stastny for Kimmo Timonen, BOOM!

He's a lefty, cap hit at ~6mil for another season (no salary issues in the trade), 38 years old (prospects get some time to develop but not too long)

Imagine what a boost he would be if we did make the playoffs

 

[Ivan13]

If we suddenly turn it around and go on a hot streak...


Stastny for Kimmo Timonen, BOOM!

He's a lefty, cap hit at ~6mil for another season (no salary issues in the trade), 38 years old (prospects get some time to develop but not too long)

Imagine what a boost he would be if we did make the playoffs

Love Kimmo, but there's no way I'd trade Stastny for him.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If we suddenly turn it around and go on a hot streak...


Stastny for Kimmo Timonen, BOOM!

He's a lefty, cap hit at ~6mil for another season (no salary issues in the trade), 38 years old (prospects get some time to develop but not too long)

Imagine what a boost he would be if we did make the playoffs

That would be a franchise destroying trade...


Why would we trade one of our best tradable assets in Stastny for a 38 year old Dman. This team is no where near ready to truly contend for the cup, so we would ultimately be trading Stastny away for nothing.


Horrible horrible trade for us.

 

[MvpKinnon]

I know, I'm desperate for success

 

[AslanRH]

"Value"

I think it is also important to remember what "value" means to the owner/organization as a whole.

If the Avs are as far away from being contenders as many say (2-3 yrs) then a top 5 pick is very valuable as the player's immediate presence will not put the team in a position to contend, but in 2-3 years the player chosen will be an integral part of the team.

If the Avs are a couple primary pieces (LHD, WING) away from being contenders, then the value of those couple pieces > top 5 draft pick.

Winning games, competing for and making the playoffs = BIG MONEY. Selling more merchandise, tickets, suites, parking, concessions, etc. is far more valuable to an owner/organization than waiting another 2-3 more years for the rebuild to finish.

If the Avs can find a partner who will send back the pieces needed to fill the holes on the roster, I can easily see them do that.

5 years ago I would never have advocated trading the pick. This year, if the return is right, I cannot see a reason not to.

 

[henchman21]

I think it is also important to remember what "value" means to the owner/organization as a whole.

If the Avs are as far away from being contenders as many say (2-3 yrs) then a top 5 pick is very valuable as the player's immediate presence will not put the team in a position to contend, but in 2-3 years the player chosen will be an integral part of the team.

If the Avs are a couple primary pieces (LHD, WING) away from being contenders, then the value of those couple pieces > top 5 draft pick.

Winning games, competing for and making the playoffs = BIG MONEY. Selling more merchandise, tickets, suites, parking, concessions, etc. is far more valuable to an owner/organization than waiting another 2-3 more years for the rebuild to finish.

If the Avs can find a partner who will send back the pieces needed to fill the holes on the roster, I can easily see them do that.

The problem is with our pick heading closer and closer to the top pick we could pick up one of those pieces we need (Drouin/Jones), and that piece might end up being an elite player. Jones is being hyped as the next elite defensemen, Drouin should be a very, very dynamic 1st line wing, Mac will be a very good #1C/RW for years to come. Trading our pick away for Kulikov + Shore or a deal like that could almost be like trading the #1 pick that turned into Stamkos/Tavares/Kane. I'd bet if you asked anyone of Tampa/NYI/Chicago if they would take Kulikov + Shore for any one of those 3 they would laugh them off the boards.

So we need a top 6 LW/RW and a top 4 defender. Lets just assume we end up with a top 3 pick. With that pick we will solve one of those issues, then in the 2nd round we might be able to solve another one (the 2nd round player might not be in the lineup for a couple years, but that is when this team will contend).

1st round pick: Seth Jones
2nd round pick: Hartman/Duclair/de la Rose/Carrier

or

1st round pick: Drouin
2nd round pick: Hagg/Mueller/Theodore/Thompson/Morin

This assumes that Siemens, Sgarbossa, Elliott, or Hishon can't develop into a role.

 

[AslanRH]

The problem is with our pick heading closer and closer to the top pick we could pick up one of those pieces we need (Drouin/Jones), and that piece might end up being an elite player. Jones is being hyped as the next elite defensemen, Drouin should be a very, very dynamic 1st line wing, Mac will be a very good #1C/RW for years to come. Trading our pick away for Kulikov + Shore or a deal like that could almost be like trading the #1 pick that turned into Stamkos/Tavares/Kane. I'd bet if you asked anyone of Tampa/NYI/Chicago if they would take Kulikov + Shore for any one of those 3 they would laugh them off the boards.

So we need a top 6 LW/RW and a top 4 defender. Lets just assume we end up with a top 3 pick. With that pick we will solve one of those issues, then in the 2nd round we might be able to solve another one (the 2nd round player might not be in the lineup for a couple years, but that is when this team will contend).

1st round pick: Seth Jones
2nd round pick: Hartman/Duclair/de la Rose/Carrier

or

1st round pick: Drouin
2nd round pick: Hagg/Mueller/Theodore/Thompson/Morin

This assumes that Siemens, Sgarbossa, Elliott, or Hishon can't develop into a role.

I understand the risk, but I also understand that there is risk in a draft pick too.

In the last 20 years, its easy to say that at least 25% of the #1 picks alone did not reach even close to elite status for one reason or another. Daigle, Berard, Phillips, Stefan, DiPietro, and add in not knowing how Edmonton's last 3 will turn out.

 

[henchman21]

I understand the risk, but I also understand that there is risk in a draft pick too.

In the last 20 years, its easy to say that at least 25% of the #1 picks alone did not reach even close to elite status for one reason or another. Daigle, Berard, Phillips, Stefan, DiPietro, and add in not knowing how Edmonton's last 3 will turn out.

Berard and DiPietro are injuries more than anything. Since 2000 the record of a top 3 pick being a very good player is pretty high.

2000: DiPietro - Heatley - Gaborik
2001: Kovalchuk - Spezza - Svitov
2002: Nash - Lehtonen - JayBo
2003: Fleury - Staal - Horton
2004: Ovi - Malkin - Barker
2005: Crosby - Ryan - JJ
2006: EJ - Staal - Toews
2007: Kane - JVR - Turris
2008: Stamkos - Doughty - Bogosian
2009: Tavares - Hedman - Duchene
2010: Hall - Segin - Gubranson

It is too early to evaluate 2011 and 2012. Of the list above Svitov and Barker are the only 2 real busts. Turris has been a disappointment, but not a bust. DiPietro got killed with injuries. The rest of that list either is a top line/pairing player, still has potential to be so, or was at one point in their career.

So basically, if you are drafting top 3, you are getting a player that you can count on to play top line/pairing minutes at some point in their career and a good chance of getting an elite player (10-14 of those were/are elite or near elite players).

 

[cgf]

I think there's no chance they trade the 1st rounder, which looks headed for a top 5 pick, and they'd be crazy to do so. This team isn't close enough to winning to trade that for immediate help, especially after no first rounded last year.

Eh, come draft time when we know if we can get Drouin or Jones or not, I wouldn't be against trading the pick if we bring back a young gifted Dman who's close to getting to there instead of relying on another teenager who'll need years to develop. Let's say 6th overall for Kulikov, that's a trade I make, a guy in the same age range as most of our core, who's ready to start contending.

 

[AslanRH]

Berard and DiPietro are injuries more than anything. Since 2000 the record of a top 3 pick being a very good player is pretty high.

It is too early to evaluate 2011 and 2012. Of the list above Svitov and Barker are the only 2 real busts. Turris has been a disappointment, but not a bust. DiPietro got killed with injuries. The rest of that list either is a top line/pairing player, still has potential to be so, or was at one point in their career.

So basically, if you are drafting top 3, you are getting a player that you can count on to play top line/pairing minutes at some point in their career and a good chance of getting an elite player (10-14 of those were/are elite or near elite players).

-by quick count 30%+ of those players are not with their origional team.

Where we differ I think is that i do not feel the Avs are 2yrs or more from competing. they may not be a Cup winning team for 2yrs (but if LA can win just barely making the dance, then who knows?).

And IMO sometimes you have to "lose" a trade in a sense, to get what you need to win. EJ and Varly trades could easily be viewed as not getting equal value, but neither trade in my opinion made this team weaker or less competitive.

 

[cgf]

-by quick count 30%+ of those players are not with their origional team.

Where we differ I think is that i do not feel the Avs are 2yrs or more from competing. they may not be a Cup winning team for 2yrs (but if LA can win just barely making the dance, then who knows?).

And IMO sometimes you have to "lose" a trade in a sense, to get what you need to win. EJ and Varly trades could easily be viewed as not getting equal value, but neither trade in my opinion made this team weaker or less competitive.

Agreed. I'd love Drouin or Seth Jones, but if we miss out, I'm not against seeing what kind of young core piece we can get in trade for that pick. And given how long it takes dmen to develop, I would not be against trading for a 21-23 year old LHD who could be EJ's partner for years, at all.