The Hodgson, Duchene and Grachev Thread

[Aqualung]

In terms of potential

1a) Duchene
1b) Grachev
2) Hodgson

In terms of likelihood of reaching their potential

1) Hodgson
2) Duchene
3) Grachev

I like this one.

Although I'd probably put Grachev's and Hodgson's potential at equal. Hodgson's numbers are very good post draft, better than some of the existing NHL impact players post draft currently from the OHL (Carter for example).

 

[drew1234]

Hodgson is playing on the second line with Pylons, except for the odd game.

Therefor, The numbers aren't comparable.

All I know is all three players have huge potential and Grachev is a vastly underrated prospect. 3rd rounder...... what a fantastic pick, even if he doesn't pan out.

You need to watch Battalion games....

Heres the last 3 games scoresheets:

Won 5-2

2. BRA Kang, (21) , 0:56
2. BRA Peluso, (17) (Hodgson, Grachev), 6:26
2. BRA Grachev, (39) , 17:11 (SH) (on the ice Hodgson)
2. MISS Smith-Pelly, (11) (Cizikas, Gomes), 17:56
3. BRA Hodgson, (39) (Peluso), 7:33
3. MISS Daugavins, (11) (Lopes, Kerbashian), 13:19
3. BRA Hodgson, (40) (Grachev), 16:23

Lost 4 -1 to Mississauga

BRA Grachev, (38) , 9:16 (on the ice Hodgson)

Won 5-2 Niagra

1. NIAG Lee, (17) (DeSousa, Sisca), 12:20
1. BRA Hodgson, (37) (Peluso, Grachev), 19:41
2. BRA Stajan, (14) (Carrick, Kang), 9:48
2. BRA Grachev, (37) (Stajan), 18:54
3. NIAG Agozzino, (27) (Traccitto, Insam), 3:08
3. BRA Peluso, (16) (Thorne), 18:23
3. BRA Hodgson, (38) , 19:48 (EN) (on the ice Hodgson, Duchene, Gratchev)

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=15840


As you can see Hogson plays with Gratchev... You are more then welcome to check it out like I did but it seems that Hodgson plays all the time with Gratchev. So get your facts straight.

 

[Ola]

All 3 are such a diffrent players -- its possible it would be a bi tch to sort out who was best 20 years from now.

I think of line form a article by Larry Brooks a week ago. He basically wrote that "Mike Modano had the best career, Pat LaFontain the best season, for a PO's I would take Neal Broten any time".

Corey Hodgson is more of a Neal Broten to me. Its with playertypes like him you win stuff -- but is he good enough? In terms of raw abilitys, he just isn't that skilled.

Matt Duschene is a player I really like, I think he is a perfect fit in the "new" NHL. Its with centers/forwards like him a team plays well in this league. He is in the Z/Datsyuk/Parise/Richards mold. At the same time, I think his top end skills are unproven. He is awsome in 4/5th of the ice, though he definitly isn't a Crosby in the last 5th so to speak. How will that transform in the NHL?

Evg Grachev is 6'5. Before size was a must and skill on top of that was a bonus. Now its exactly the other way around. Speed is a must, and size on top of that is a bonus. Basically. Malkin and Carter, they are players who have size and is skilled enough, though they aren't many other examples of thoose types in the NHL today. Most guys with size plays in smaller roles and aren't very effective. Unless they are in a perfect role (see Penner and Malone) but I'll get to that later.

I don't think Grachev is good enough to get into that Malkin/Carter mold. He have awsome straightaway speed, but slows down allot when he is forced to turn up ice with the puck, instead of getting it on his stick with the face the right way heading up ice.

But, I think its very likely that he will become a very good compleimantary player. But the success of thoose depends heavily in what role they are. Look at players like Penner and Malone, neither were hyped IMO before changing teams, they where really good in Anaheim and Pittsburgh, but there they also had roles were they could concentrate on their strengths. They played with a Crosby or infront of Neids and with a Andy McDonald as a center.

So with Grachev I would say that he have a very small chance of becomming the best hands down, but I don't think thats likely at all.

I would say that he have a good chance to become like a player in the Franzen/Penner/Malone mold, and if that happends his success will depend on the enviorment he gets to play in.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You need to watch Battalion games....

Heres the last 3 games scoresheets:

Won 5-2

2. BRA Kang, (21) , 0:56
2. BRA Peluso, (17) (Hodgson, Grachev), 6:26
2. BRA Grachev, (39) , 17:11 (SH) (on the ice Hodgson)
2. MISS Smith-Pelly, (11) (Cizikas, Gomes), 17:56
3. BRA Hodgson, (39) (Peluso), 7:33
3. MISS Daugavins, (11) (Lopes, Kerbashian), 13:19
3. BRA Hodgson, (40) (Grachev), 16:23

Lost 4 -1 to Mississauga

BRA Grachev, (38) , 9:16 (on the ice Hodgson)

Won 5-2 Niagra

1. NIAG Lee, (17) (DeSousa, Sisca), 12:20
1. BRA Hodgson, (37) (Peluso, Grachev), 19:41
2. BRA Stajan, (14) (Carrick, Kang), 9:48
2. BRA Grachev, (37) (Stajan), 18:54
3. NIAG Agozzino, (27) (Traccitto, Insam), 3:08
3. BRA Peluso, (16) (Thorne), 18:23
3. BRA Hodgson, (38) , 19:48 (EN) (on the ice Hodgson, Duchene, Gratchev)

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=15840


As you can see Hogson plays with Gratchev... You are more then welcome to check it out like I did but it seems that Hodgson plays all the time with Gratchev. So get your facts straight.

Grachev usually plays with Duschene. Geno and Hodgson are playing together now since Duschene is out with an injury but other than that Grachev and Hodgson have only played together on the PP/PK or late game situations for most of the year. 3 games is a terrible sample size too.

lol at you calling out another poster only to be flat out wrong.

 

[eldiablo17]

Look at the quality of players surrounding Hodgson in Brampton all season versus the team that surrounded JT for most of the year in Oshawa. Now ask yourself, if JT was playing in London all year by just how much would he be blowing Hodgson out of the water? Barring a few injuries this season, Duchene would be producing on a level comparable to Hodgson last year, their point per game paces are comparably similar and scouts will tell you that Duchene's skating and his ability to exercise all of his offensive tools at top speed make him a more projectable offensive pro talent than Hodgson.
EVERY NHL prospect will tell you the hardest part of adapting to the game at the next level is adjusting to the speed. That's what's going to limit Hodgson's offensive output at the NHL level. It's why his offensive numbers are more in the Chris Drury realm.

One thing I will point out is that his skating has improved since the beginning of the year and in Canucks training camp, although his acceleration wasn't the same, Hodgson was keeping up with Grabner just fine who has more than NHL ready wheels.

 

[RoyBoyCoy]

Duchene>Hodgson>Grachev IMO

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I like this one.

Although I'd probably put Grachev's and Hodgson's potential at equal. Hodgson's numbers are very good post draft, better than some of the existing NHL impact players post draft currently from the OHL (Carter for example).

I think the sheer size factor is what gives Grachev the edge. Big men with that skill set are exceedingly rare.

 

[drew1234]

Grachev usually plays with Duschene. Geno and Hodgson are playing together now since Duschene is out with an injury but other than that Grachev and Hodgson have only played together on the PP/PK or late game situations for most of the year. 3 games is a terrible sample size too.

lol at you calling out another poster only to be flat out wrong.

Heres a 7-0 win they had 4 games ago.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=15829

Hodgson on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. The point was the poster saying they never play together indicating that Hodgson stats are not inflated by playing with Duchene and Gratchev (because they never play together). In this game, if you look at the PP hodgson got all but one point on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. In the other games it showed Hodgson scoring with Gratchev. So the whole point was the poster saying they dont play together yet by looking at this yes Hodgsons points are inflated with the quality linemates.

Should we look at the entire year to get the exact points Hodgson has had on line 2 vs being on the ice with one of duchene / gratchev?

This is in response to the comparison of JT ppg. PPG is really a dumb indication as linemates totally help your production. JT was on a less talented team in Oshawa and played extremely well. That was the point getting across.

 

[CherryToke]

All 3 are such a diffrent players -- its possible it would be a bi tch to sort out who was best 20 years from now.

I think of line form a article by Larry Brooks a week ago. He basically wrote that "Mike Modano had the best career, Pat LaFontain the best season, for a PO's I would take Neal Broten any time".

Corey Hodgson is more of a Neal Broten to me. Its with playertypes like him you win stuff -- but is he good enough? In terms of raw abilitys, he just isn't that skilled.

first off It's Cody Hodgson not Corey.

secondly He isn't that skilled compared to who Ovechkin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uenXfXUSkF8&feature=channel_page

looks like some slick abilities to me.

 

[JD12]

Heres a 7-0 win they had 4 games ago.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=15829

Hodgson on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. The point was the poster saying they never play together indicating that Hodgson stats are not inflated by playing with Duchene and Gratchev (because they never play together). In this game, if you look at the PP hodgson got all but one point on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. In the other games it showed Hodgson scoring with Gratchev. So the whole point was the poster saying they dont play together yet by looking at this yes Hodgsons points are inflated with the quality linemates.

Should we look at the entire year to get the exact points Hodgson has had on line 2 vs being on the ice with one of duchene / gratchev?

This is in response to the comparison of JT ppg. PPG is really a dumb indication as linemates totally help your production. JT was on a less talented team in Oshawa and played extremely well. That was the point getting across.

You mean except for every post where everyone says he plays with pluggers 5 on 5 but the othe two on the PP, do you even read the thread or just like to pretend you know what youre talking about?

 

[Britton]

Heres a 7-0 win they had 4 games ago.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=15829

Hodgson on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. The point was the poster saying they never play together indicating that Hodgson stats are not inflated by playing with Duchene and Gratchev (because they never play together). In this game, if you look at the PP hodgson got all but one point on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. In the other games it showed Hodgson scoring with Gratchev. So the whole point was the poster saying they dont play together yet blooking at this yes Hodgsons points are inflated with the quality linemates.

Should we look at the entire year to get the exact points Hodgson has had on line 2 vs being on the ice with one of duchene / gratchev?

This is in response to the comparison of JT ppg. PPG is really a dumb indication as linemates totally help your production. JT was on a less talented team in Oshawa and played extremely well. That was the point getting across.

Cody has just 31 of his 90 points on the PP, and as was mentioned except for the few games where Duchene has been injured this year, has spent his time on a line with Shalla and Dale, with Peluso taking Shalla's spot once he was acquired. By comparison Tavares has 51 of his 104 points on the PP, so no I wouldn't say Hodgson totals are inflated by much if at all.

 

[Aqualung]

I think the sheer size factor is what gives Grachev the edge. Big men with that skill set are exceedingly rare.

Grachev's speed for his size is most the most impressive asset I see. But having seen Grachev often he has some flaws in his game... His skating north-south is fantastic but his agility isn't great and can't make sudden turns effectively. I see a lot Antropov 's style of game, more goal-scoring ability less defensive ability (although he's not terrible in his own zone).

His work in traffic is also great and gets his release, especially from the slot, off quick.

But as many qualities Grachev have in offensive ability, I think Hodgson's hockey IQ (he just knows where to go and what to do) that gives him his production. Gratchev has the size advantage, but I would undoubtedly give the Hockey IQ to Hodgson.

But I'm willing to concede Grachev's potential if I'm hammered by other members for making my points. He is, of course, in his first year in NA.

Edit: Hodgson with 2G 2A tonight to move him into sole position as the OHL's second leading scorer (51GP 42G 48A 90PTS)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Grachev's speed for his size is most the most impressive asset I see. But having seen Grachev often he has some flaws in his game... His skating north-south is fantastic but his agility isn't great and can't make sudden turns effectively. I see a lot Antropov 's style of game, more goal-scoring ability less defensive ability (although he's not terrible in his own zone).

His work in traffic is also great and gets his release, especially from the slot, off quick.

But as many qualities Grachev have in offensive ability, I think Hodgson's hockey IQ (he just knows where to go and what to do) that gives him his production. Gratchev has the size advantage, but I would undoubtedly give the Hockey IQ to Hodgson.

But I'm willing to concede Grachev's potential if I'm hammered by other members for making my points. He is, of course, in his first year in NA.

Edit: Hodgson with 2G 2A tonight to move him into sole position as the OHL's second leading scorer (51GP 42G 48A 90PTS)

Thats a very fair assessment. Well done and very hard to believe that it came from a Duck

 

[ecemleafs]

grachev had a goal and 2 assists tonight and was a +4!!! leading rookie in OHL scoring.

 

[Marky9er]

These guy's are all sick, I see it Hodgson>>>Duchene>Grachev. Grachev is still my favourite player on the battalion, go troops go!!!! Now NYR, trade Grachev to DRW.

 

[gd7]

You need to watch Battalion games....

Heres the last 3 games scoresheets:

Won 5-2

2. BRA Kang, (21) , 0:56
2. BRA Peluso, (17) (Hodgson, Grachev), 6:26
2. BRA Grachev, (39) , 17:11 (SH) (on the ice Hodgson)
2. MISS Smith-Pelly, (11) (Cizikas, Gomes), 17:56
3. BRA Hodgson, (39) (Peluso), 7:33
3. MISS Daugavins, (11) (Lopes, Kerbashian), 13:19
3. BRA Hodgson, (40) (Grachev), 16:23

Lost 4 -1 to Mississauga

BRA Grachev, (38) , 9:16 (on the ice Hodgson)

Won 5-2 Niagra

1. NIAG Lee, (17) (DeSousa, Sisca), 12:20
1. BRA Hodgson, (37) (Peluso, Grachev), 19:41
2. BRA Stajan, (14) (Carrick, Kang), 9:48
2. BRA Grachev, (37) (Stajan), 18:54
3. NIAG Agozzino, (27) (Traccitto, Insam), 3:08
3. BRA Peluso, (16) (Thorne), 18:23
3. BRA Hodgson, (38) , 19:48 (EN) (on the ice Hodgson, Duchene, Gratchev)

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=15840


As you can see Hogson plays with Gratchev... You are more then welcome to check it out like I did but it seems that Hodgson plays all the time with Gratchev. So get your facts straight.

woh woh woh! ease off the gas a little! I know somebody who watches all of the Battallion games and he told me that Hodgson rarely plays with Grachev..... the reason he is playing with Grachev right now is because Duchene is out (I believe he is injured). Normally Grachev and Duchene form 2/3 of the first line. Looking at most online resources this appears to be true.

OR I could be rude like you..... GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!

 

[FLYLine27*]

Last 29 games (since about the return of the WJCS)

Grachev - 29GP - 23G - 20A -43P
Hodgson - 28GP - 22G - 26A - 48P

Grachev has size and speed(Two tangibles that greatly help a player to succeed in the pros) over Hodgson. Hodsgon may be the better prospect, but its not as huge as some of the Van fans are trying to put it. Funny also how Grachev plays with Hodgson but yet the Van fans are trying to tell everyone he plays with scrubs to pimp him up some more.

Yes hes the better prospect, but hes not god.

 

[Saren]

Last 29 games (since about the return of the WJCS)

Grachev - 29GP - 23G - 20A -43P
Hodgson - 28GP - 22G - 26A - 48P

Grachev has size and speed(Two tangibles that greatly help a player to succeed in the pros) over Hodgson. Hodsgon may be the better prospect, but its not as huge as some of the Van fans are trying to put it. Funny also how Grachev plays with Hodgson but yet the Van fans are trying to tell everyone he plays with scrubs to pimp him up some more.

Yes hes the better prospect, but hes not god.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.


No one is disputing that Grachev is a great prospect - everyone here knows that, no one here will deny it. I guess it's hard to watch people continually build Hodgson as this almost-Godlike player and see Grachev get so little praise (considering you are a NYR fan). I don't want to sound like a jerk, but Cody's been ranked the #2 prospect in the world as of late, so you can see why it's difficult for some fans not be excited about him as a player.

Also, with that being said, whether or not you see Canucks/Battalion fans as "pimping" Hodgson when stating that he plays with "scrubs" .... does not change the fact that (up until recently) he has been playing with scrubs. I've seen the odd Battalion game here and there, and we aren't lying when we say that Cody Hodgson goes out there and gets his points playing with Bottom-6 players.

Because of Duchene's unfortunate accident, Cody is now able to play with a player who has a great deal of skill -- finally. Tonight, he showed what he can do when he's playing with someone who doesn't have the IQ of Mike Brown.

Hodgson may not be Jesus compared to E. Grachev, but there is a very good reason he was drafted where he was, nearly a steal much like Grachev himself.



I hope you don't take this as a personal attack, but I felt a need to clarify what might have been mistaken as one.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Grachev is a big step below Hodgson and Duchene, I don't know why he's in this debate

 

[Randall Graves*]

Anyone else wonder why there's the hate for Hodgson? I mean the kid was #2 in the THN future watch. He could have been the WJC MVP and he actually had one more point than Tavares in the tournament. IMO, he plays a well rounded game and he has NHL written all over him. Maybe Mike Richards is a good comparison? I don't see anything Hodgson does wrong.

SO as of now if I am an NHL GM I think I take Hodgson but I do like Duchene's speed

the hate comes from him being overhyped, his number 2 spot is more proof of this

 

[Ola]

first off It's Cody Hodgson not Corey.

secondly He isn't that skilled compared to who Ovechkin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uenXfXUSkF8&feature=channel_page

looks like some slick abilities to me.

Not necessary, but compared to like a Toews.

Anyway, I think its stupid to compare the 3. They are diffrent types.

 

[The Jester]

Heres a 7-0 win they had 4 games ago.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=15829

Hodgson on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. The point was the poster saying they never play together indicating that Hodgson stats are not inflated by playing with Duchene and Gratchev (because they never play together). In this game, if you look at the PP hodgson got all but one point on the PP with Duchene and Gratchev. In the other games it showed Hodgson scoring with Gratchev. So the whole point was the poster saying they dont play together yet by looking at this yes Hodgsons points are inflated with the quality linemates.

Should we look at the entire year to get the exact points Hodgson has had on line 2 vs being on the ice with one of duchene / gratchev?

This is in response to the comparison of JT ppg. PPG is really a dumb indication as linemates totally help your production. JT was on a less talented team in Oshawa and played extremely well. That was the point getting across.

Maybe this will help to clarify things. As others have stated Hodgson plays with Grachev currently because Duchene is injured. The three of the only played together on the powerplay previously while Grachev and Duchene played together.

Here are a few game summary sheets:

2. BRA Carrick, (3) (Duchene, Hodgson), 14:06 (PP)
3. BRA Hodgson, (4) (Dale), 0:28 (SH)
3. BAR Archibald, (4) (Clouthier), 3:11
3. BRA Dale, (6) (DeCoste, Tanski), 12:24
3. BAR Della Rovere, (11) (Hutchings, Payerl), 17:55
3. BRA Duchene, (8) (Tanski, Grachev), 18:21

As you can see, from this game in October, Hodgson and Duchene get assists together on the PP, while Duchene's goal is assisted by Grachev and RW Scott Tanski.


This is another game from January:

BRA Merrett, (9) (Duchene, Grachev), 0:47
1. BAR Hutchings, (21) (Stanisz, Brittain), 14:58
1. BAR Brittain, (21) (Hutchings), 16:44
2. BAR Carnevale, (9) (Brittain, Michalsky), 5:20 (PP)
2. BRA Peluso, (10) , 9:16
2. BRA Kang, (13) (Hodgson), 14:11
2. BAR Della Rovere, (19) (Archibald, Stanisz), 14:44
2. BAR Archibald, (16) (van de Bospoort, Della Rovere), 17:12


In conclusion, the point is not that they never play together. Just at even strength (when all three are healthy) Grachev and Duchene play together on one line, while Hodgson anchors another. They do play together for the powerplay.


EDIT--i should add that as a Canuck fan, I'm extremely excited about the prospect of Cody Hodgson playing in our lineup, but both Grachev and Duchene are excellent prospects. Grachev's combination of size, speed and skill is going to make the Rangers VERY happy. I'm glad he's in the east!

 

[Jon Snow]

All this talk about the "overhyping" of Cody Hodgson is pretty damn amusing. Look at the kid's resume since draft day... couldn't have gone better for the kid, other than cracking the Canucks and being a Calder candidate. Let the Canuck fans be excited about thier prospect... it looks like petty jealousy when people come out of the woodwork to try and minimize Hodgson's accomplishments...

 

[gare joyce]

All I can add to this debate is that, when healthy, Duchene skated with Geno at the latter's first practice with the Battalion and, when healthy, they've played together ever since.

I had Grachev at 23 in my mock draft last year ... TSN had him in the 50s and questioned his skating. Took a bit of static about that. He'll be the best third-rounder in that draft and maybe the best taken after the first round. (Markstrom, maybe. Cormier, quite possibly.) If you're redoing the 2008 draft, he'd be in the first round no doubt.

No need to say that these are three great prospects but they're very different kids.

Hodgson will make the absolute most of every bit of talent he has ... will not be out-worked, maybe has put too much pressure on himself in the past. He is 19 going on 30 in terms of emotional intelligence.

Duchene is the best athlete of the three. Skating makes him potentially more dynamic than Hodgson down the line. He's "younger" than Cody. He's a more impressive prospect at this point of the season than Hodgson was a year ago.

Grachev is still learning the game over here. He has better north-south speed (as noted in previous posts). Fact is, he is likely the fastest player in the O on that count. And I suspect that, as big as he is, he's going to get bigger ... he's likely the least physically mature of the lot. He has a big frame. He could play at 230 or bigger someday.

You could defend any order but it's moot: If Hodgson is a Top Ten (and if you did he draft over he'd spike up from his slot I'd bet) then Grachev is at the very least in the second ten of last year's pool. There's no doubt about Duchene being a Top Ten this year and to most minds a Top 5.

 

[Levitate]

Grachev is still learning the game over here. He has better north-south speed (as noted in previous posts). Fact is, he is likely the fastest player in the O on that count. And I suspect that, as big as he is, he's going to get bigger ... he's likely the least physically mature of the lot. He has a big frame. He could play at 230 or bigger someday.

I tend to get the feeling with Grachev, that he's always going to be a real straight ahead, north-south type of player, rather than a guy who is real shifty on his feet. The bits I've seen of him make him look a lot more like a goal scoring winger than an all around guy who needs to be able to cover a lot of ice east and west to be effective.

I guess that means he's not going to be putting up 60 assists per year or something, but whatever. Goal scoring wingers are pretty valuable as well