Rumor: The Habs would have acquired Franson for Gorges

[V13]

2nd+Gilbert vs Franson + forcing Leafs to give Robidas 3M for 3 years instead of having a better Gorges.

That's a good point. I'm not Nonis but i feel that Robidas is their plan B. Gorges was their plan A

 

[Stjonnypopo]

Gorges' parting gift was to ensure that the team didn't get worse by trading him for Franson. Even as he was being shipped away he was a leader.

 

[NobleSix]

I'm happy with the 2nd round pick thanks.

 

[habtastic]

Gorges' parting gift was to ensure that the team didn't get worse by trading him for Franson. Even as he was being shipped away he was a leader.

Funny, but with a big smack of truth.

My god, thank you Gorges!!!

With all the "MB is god" stuff, this is quite troubling -- that MB was pushing hard for the trade to happen, just so we could get FRANSON!!! I mean, come ON! Gorges on the Habs >>>> Franson, even with his contract. People say Gorges can't play D? Who cares if you're sort of physical (Franson??), Gorges is wayyyy better than him.

So on one hand, so happy we got the deal we did, though I posit we could have gotten a little more, but leverage destroyed.

Other hand, wtf were you thinking MB??

This also could just be what the title says it is...a rumour.

 

[Grant McCagg]

This place is like a broken record. Amazes me how horrible players are that the Habs go after in trade. Weise was an AHL scrub....Franson is a complete pylon even though he's a half decent skater, Halpern was a washed up bum, we wasted a fifth round pick picking up another mini dman in Weaver....it goes on and on.

Seems like the majority are both an expert pro and amateur scout around here...you'd swear some spend 20 hours a day breaking down video on every CHL, NHL and AHL player...not to mention Europe. You are dynamos. Even Sekac...apparently there are experts on his pro future on here as well. Amazing stuff. Why does MB bother with pro scouting...just come on here and get the gospel. A couple of posters completely denigrate a player, and the sheep follow.

Am I to believe that a whole bunch of you watched all the Leaf games, and know their players inside out? I never watch the Leafs unless they're playing the Habs personally, so I'm not about to make emphatic statements on Franson...I've never sat back and focused on scouting Franson in an NHL game, let alone dozens of them...apparently piles of Hab HF posters have though. They didn't watch the play when the Leafs and Habs played...they watched Franson.

Some pundits who I respect very highly think Franson has been underutilized in Toronto, and that he may still be a solid NHL dman defensively given the right situation. No offence..but I'll take the opinions of MB, Dudley, Carriere and others over fans who have never scouted the guy.....ever! Rranson was pretty solid defensively in the WHL by the end of his junior career..sometimes it takes a few years for a dman to properly adjust to the NHL level of play..it's not an easy task.

People also can't seem to grasp that neither Gilbert or Franson would have been expected to replace Gorges in all defensive situations....they were both sought to improve the power play moreso than to be defensive stalwarts...that gets lost as well.


Fans see a couple of highlights where Franson gets beat badly on a goal and they presume he's a complete pylon, or they go to a Leaf message board and listen to the negative hyperbole spouted by fans who pay no closer attention to individual play than these guy do. I would imagine there are fans on other teams that feel the same way about Markov and Emelin when all they see are highlights.....most of the time these players aren't getting beat like rented mules...but pretty much every NHL dman gets beat on occasion, and it gets seen in highlights...they are facing the most talented players in the world.

But the hyperbole on here....that a second round pick is infinitely better than a 6-3 NHL dman with power play abilities that is a good skater.....do people not ever take into consideration that more than 60 per cent of second round players never become NHL regulars...unlike Franson?

Gorges for a younger, bigger, better skating Franson at half the salary would not have been a horrific trade...hate to break it to you.

 

[Redux91]

This place is like a broken record. Amazes me how horrible players are that the Habs go after in trade. Weise was an AHL scrub....Franson is a complete pylon even though he's a half decent skater, Halpern was a washed up bum, we wasted a fifth round pick picking up another mini dman in Weaver....it goes on and on.

Seems like the majority are both an expert pro and amateur scout around here...you'd swear some spend 20 hours a day breaking down video on every CHL, NHL and AHL player...not to mention Europe. You are dynamos. Even Sekac...apparently there are experts on his pro future on here as well. Amazing stuff. Why does MB bother with pro scouting...just come on here and get the gospel.

Am I to believe that a whole bunch of you watched all the Leaf games, and know their players inside out? I never watch the Leafs unless they're playing the Habs personally, so I'm not about to make emphatic statements on Franson...I've never sat back and focused on scouting Franson in an NHL game, let alone dozens of them...apparently piles of Hab HF posters have though. They didn't watch the play when the Leafs and Habs played...they watched Franson.

Some pundits who I respect very highly think Franson has been underutilized in Toronto, and that he may still be a solid NHL dman defensively given the right situation. No offence..but I'll take the opinions of MB, Dudley, Carriere and others over fans who have never scouted the guy.....ever!


Fans see a couple of highlights where Franson gets beat badly on a goal and they presume he's a complete pylon, or they go to a Leaf message board and listen to the negative hyperbole spouted by fans who pay no closer attention to individual play than these guy do. I would imagine there are fans on other teams that feel the same way about Markov and Emelin when all they see are highlights.....most of the time these players aren't getting beat like rented mules...but pretty much every NHL dman gets beat on occasion, and it gets seen in highlights...they are facing the most talented players in the world.

But the hyperbole on here....that a second round pick is infinitely better than a 6-3 NHL dman with power play abilities that is a good skater.....do people not ever take into consideration that more than 60 per cent of second round players never become NHL regulars...like Franson?

Gorges for a younger, bigger, better skating Franson at half the salary would not have been a horrific trade...hate to break it to you.

I actually like franson.(actually had him on my fantasy team).. Too many posters wear leaf hating goggles tho (even josh!).. Like when posters hate on Phil kessel just cuz he was a bruin and a leaf ... .**** I'd take Phil kessel any day of the week, and I def wouldn't of minded franson over a pick 2 years from now

 

[Roulin]

This place is like a broken record. Amazes me how horrible players are that the Habs go after in trade. Weise was an AHL scrub....Franson is a complete pylon even though he's a half decent skater, Halpern was a washed up bum, we wasted a fifth round pick picking up another mini dman in Weaver....it goes on and on.

Seems like the majority are both an expert pro and amateur scout around here...you'd swear some spend 20 hours a day breaking down video on every CHL, NHL and AHL player...not to mention Europe. You are dynamos. Even Sekac...apparently there are experts on his pro future on here as well. Amazing stuff. Why does MB bother with pro scouting...just come on here and get the gospel.

Am I to believe that a whole bunch of you watched all the Leaf games, and know their players inside out? I never watch the Leafs unless they're playing the Habs personally, so I'm not about to make emphatic statements on Franson...I've never sat back and focused on scouting Franson in an NHL game, let alone dozens of them...apparently piles of Hab HF posters have though. They didn't watch the play when the Leafs and Habs played...they watched Franson.

Some pundits who I respect very highly think Franson has been underutilized in Toronto, and that he may still be a solid NHL dman defensively given the right situation. No offence..but I'll take the opinions of MB, Dudley, Carriere and others over fans who have never scouted the guy.....ever!


Fans see a couple of highlights where Franson gets beat badly on a goal and they presume he's a complete pylon, or they go to a Leaf message board and listen to the negative hyperbole spouted by fans who pay no closer attention to individual play than these guy do. I would imagine there are fans on other teams that feel the same way about Markov and Emelin when all they see are highlights.....most of the time these players aren't getting beat like rented mules...but pretty much every NHL dman gets beat on occasion, and it gets seen in highlights...they are facing the most talented players in the world.

But the hyperbole on here....that a second round pick is infinitely better than a 6-3 NHL dman with power play abilities that is a good skater.....do people not ever take into consideration that more than 60 per cent of second round players never become NHL regulars...like Franson?

Gorges for a younger, bigger, better skating Franson at half the salary would not have been a horrific trade...hate to break it to you.

As many have pointed out, Franson vs 2nd round pick + Gilbert is the more sensible comparison from a Habs POV.

 

[Giddens]

We will never know this but instead of trading Gorges one option had to be to trade either Beaulieu or Tinordi for a young forward with top 6 potential. Did Bergevin look at that option? Is a young D with top 4 potential less valued by GMs than a young forward with top 6 potential?

 

[Ezpz]

We will never know this but instead of trading Gorges one option had to be to trade either Beaulieu or Tinordi for a young forward with top 6 potential. Did Bergevin look at that option? Is a young D with top 4 potential less valued by GMs than a young forward with top 6 potential?

Gorges is not a top 4 defenseman on a contender, that is the bottom line of why we moved him.

 

[Giddens]

Gorges is not a top 4 defenseman on a contender, that is the bottom line of why we moved him.

You did not read my post correctly, I'm wondering if Tinordi or Beaulieu (both could be described as having top 4 potential) could have gotten us in a trade a young forward with top 6 potential.

 

[habdynasty]

We will never know this but instead of trading Gorges one option had to be to trade either Beaulieu or Tinordi for a young forward with top 6 potential. Did Bergevin look at that option? Is a young D with top 4 potential less valued by GMs than a young forward with top 6 potential?

I am relieved we didnt trade Tinordi or Beaulieu .

 

[Ezpz]

You did not read my post correctly, I'm wondering if Tinordi or Beaulieu (both could be described as having top 4 potential) could have gotten us in a trade a young forward with top 6 potential.

You said instead of. Implying you would keep Gorges which was something management did not want to do.

 

[Giddens]

You said instead of. Implying you would keep Gorges which was something management did not want to do.

I don't think they were dissatisfied with his play. Bergevin was clear yesterday. He needed to rebalance the D and make room on the left side. If Beaulieu and Tinordi were RHD Gorges would still be a Habs.

 

[habsfanatics*]

before going on a rant about someone saying something incorrectly, one should always make sure he himself has the expressions right lol

Best post in this thread

 

[habsfanatics*]

As many have pointed out, Franson vs 2nd round pick + Gilbert is the more sensible comparison from a Habs POV.

Franson, good skater

 

[No More Subban]

People here should be embarrassed for thinking Kadri was the one going back to Montreal.

 

[habtastic]

This place is like a broken record. Amazes me how horrible players are that the Habs go after in trade. Weise was an AHL scrub....Franson is a complete pylon even though he's a half decent skater, Halpern was a washed up bum, we wasted a fifth round pick picking up another mini dman in Weaver....it goes on and on.

Seems like the majority are both an expert pro and amateur scout around here...you'd swear some spend 20 hours a day breaking down video on every CHL, NHL and AHL player...not to mention Europe. You are dynamos. Even Sekac...apparently there are experts on his pro future on here as well. Amazing stuff. Why does MB bother with pro scouting...just come on here and get the gospel.

Am I to believe that a whole bunch of you watched all the Leaf games, and know their players inside out? I never watch the Leafs unless they're playing the Habs personally, so I'm not about to make emphatic statements on Franson...I've never sat back and focused on scouting Franson in an NHL game, let alone dozens of them...apparently piles of Hab HF posters have though. They didn't watch the play when the Leafs and Habs played...they watched Franson.

Some pundits who I respect very highly think Franson has been underutilized in Toronto, and that he may still be a solid NHL dman defensively given the right situation. No offence..but I'll take the opinions of MB, Dudley, Carriere and others over fans who have never scouted the guy.....ever!


Fans see a couple of highlights where Franson gets beat badly on a goal and they presume he's a complete pylon, or they go to a Leaf message board and listen to the negative hyperbole spouted by fans who pay no closer attention to individual play than these guy do. I would imagine there are fans on other teams that feel the same way about Markov and Emelin when all they see are highlights.....most of the time these players aren't getting beat like rented mules...but pretty much every NHL dman gets beat on occasion, and it gets seen in highlights...they are facing the most talented players in the world.

But the hyperbole on here....that a second round pick is infinitely better than a 6-3 NHL dman with power play abilities that is a good skater.....do people not ever take into consideration that more than 60 per cent of second round players never become NHL regulars...like Franson?

Gorges for a younger, bigger, better skating Franson at half the salary would not have been a horrific trade...hate to break it to you.

You are using the typical and tendentious argument that because we are not NHL scouts/GMs, etc., clearly all those guys do is lay golden eggs. They've been very good, but not blemish free. (MB's team, that is.)

Sure, you've painted a decent picture in bold and I respect your experience, but I happened to live in TO for all of Franson's time save the last couple of months. I watched far more leafs games than I cared to and have friends who write official scouting reports for the Marlies and unofficially cover the leafs. I also do very much remember his time in Nashville and (seriously) am friends with one of the erstwhile reporters for the team and local media. I've had many discussions with them re: Franson before this even happened, in addition to watching him myself. So, no, I'm not an NHL GM. Mike Milbury was. So what? Some pundits I respect think Gorges is one of the most underrated D men in the league, when used in the right situation.

It's not hyperbole to be shocked that we ostensibly replaced Josh Gorges (not going to go into the superlatives, we know what they are) with Franson. IMO it's a bad exchange and confusing to me why we wanted to force it so badly. I would MUCH rather keep Gorges. Beaulieu has been making great strides, as has Tinordi. On both sides of the game from a D POV, we had good options. I don't know what to make of Gilbert (now) and where he will fit in. That I admit. But I sure as hell know that I did not want Cody Franson as a replacement for Josh Gorges, all things considered.

BTW, it's not so much simply the one for one that has people up in arms, wherever they are. It's the combination of the fact that all this hullaballoo was for Franson. (Even if it was asking him to waive the NTC in private multiple times, or Shanahan trying to push it through.)

You are bang on right re: Markov/Emelin -- other team perspectives of our players based on small sample sizes, but like I said, I've seen a lot of Franson, so I feel justified in not taking a liking to him.

Wish we had kept Gorges. Hope that Gilbert is able. (Or that Tinordi starts to fill that role despite being raw.)

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I'm happy with the 2nd round pick thanks.

Me too, but Grant's rant isn't that far from the mark. While I'm not overly impressed with Franson specifically, he's coming to prime age and developmental level (still work to do defensively, lol), so considering he's also cheap it couldn't have been construed as a "horrible" deal in the end. If there was ever a time to gamble on Franson, this is it - two years ago would have been too early, two years from now might be a bit late to get him at this kind of bargain. Without the same kind of pick(s) to pad the deal or any idea what length of contract we would have ended up talking about, though, it would feel as though we were giving up the better player in the deal for sure.

 

[malton]

Franson isn't a bad player, but i'd rather have the 2nd and the future flexibility than commit to Franson long term.

 

[groovejuice]

People here should be embarrassed for thinking Kadri was the one going back to Montreal.

No one should be embarrassed by fantasizing or being ridiculously hopeful at this time of year, regardless.

And especially so because it's the Leafs. Check them on Cap Geek and then tell me it's absurd to imagine a dumb decision from their brain trust.

 

[Forlando]

This place is like a broken record. Amazes me how horrible players are that the Habs go after in trade. Weise was an AHL scrub....Franson is a complete pylon even though he's a half decent skater, Halpern was a washed up bum, we wasted a fifth round pick picking up another mini dman in Weaver....it goes on and on.

Seems like the majority are both an expert pro and amateur scout around here...you'd swear some spend 20 hours a day breaking down video on every CHL, NHL and AHL player...not to mention Europe. You are dynamos. Even Sekac...apparently there are experts on his pro future on here as well. Amazing stuff. Why does MB bother with pro scouting...just come on here and get the gospel. A couple of posters completely denigrate a player, and the sheep follow.

Am I to believe that a whole bunch of you watched all the Leaf games, and know their players inside out? I never watch the Leafs unless they're playing the Habs personally, so I'm not about to make emphatic statements on Franson...I've never sat back and focused on scouting Franson in an NHL game, let alone dozens of them...apparently piles of Hab HF posters have though. They didn't watch the play when the Leafs and Habs played...they watched Franson.

Some pundits who I respect very highly think Franson has been underutilized in Toronto, and that he may still be a solid NHL dman defensively given the right situation. No offence..but I'll take the opinions of MB, Dudley, Carriere and others over fans who have never scouted the guy.....ever! Rranson was pretty solid defensively in the WHL by the end of his junior career..sometimes it takes a few years for a dman to properly adjust to the NHL level of play..it's not an easy task.

People also can't seem to grasp that neither Gilbert or Franson would have been expected to replace Gorges in all defensive situations....they were both sought to improve the power play moreso than to be defensive stalwarts...that gets lost as well.


Fans see a couple of highlights where Franson gets beat badly on a goal and they presume he's a complete pylon, or they go to a Leaf message board and listen to the negative hyperbole spouted by fans who pay no closer attention to individual play than these guy do. I would imagine there are fans on other teams that feel the same way about Markov and Emelin when all they see are highlights.....most of the time these players aren't getting beat like rented mules...but pretty much every NHL dman gets beat on occasion, and it gets seen in highlights...they are facing the most talented players in the world.

But the hyperbole on here....that a second round pick is infinitely better than a 6-3 NHL dman with power play abilities that is a good skater.....do people not ever take into consideration that more than 60 per cent of second round players never become NHL regulars...unlike Franson?

Gorges for a younger, bigger, better skating Franson at half the salary would not have been a horrific trade...hate to break it to you.

Thanks man for being the voice of reason and shedding some needed light among these "infidels" ...I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to put things into perspective... but...

 

[Blind Gardien]

Gorges for a younger, bigger, better skating Franson at half the salary would not have been a horrific trade...hate to break it to you.

I have no problem saying you're wrong there. And if MB and his team thought that, they were wrong too. No way is Franson going to be half Gorges' price for one thing. Past that, after you just said you don't watch the Leafs, why not listen to the army of Leafs fans who watch every game and agree with us that he sorta-sucks. I drafted Franson in the first round in my FHL because I liked the raw tools he had as a youngster, and I've followed him semi-closely since. But he just hasn't put it together, and it's too late for me to think he will. Franson is also not a good skater, and I can't imagine anybody ever suggesting that he is. It is a red flag right there to me that somebody isn't familiar with the player. He's bigger, but aside from one half-season, softer than Gorges as well. He's a fool's dream at this point.

 

[NobleSix]

Me too, but Grant's rant isn't that far from the mark. While I'm not overly impressed with Franson specifically, he's coming to prime age and developmental level (still work to do defensively, lol), so considering he's also cheap it couldn't have been construed as a "horrible" deal in the end. If there was ever a time to gamble on Franson, this is it - two years ago would have been too early, two years from now might be a bit late to get him at this kind of bargain. Without the same kind of pick(s) to pad the deal or any idea what length of contract we would have ended up talking about, though, it would feel as though we were giving up the better player in the deal for sure.

I agree. I actually thought Grant's post was spot on regarding HfHabs perception of "bad" players. Bergevin and the habs pro scouts have done a pretty good job of identifying holes in the team and which players around the league can fill them in relation to cost. I actually have a lot of faith in our management team. I would have reserved judgement on Franson until getting an actual idea of what his role would be, and how he would have performed (much like the Weise and Weaver situations).

At this point I just feel like the Habs already have 3 quality young defensemen ready to come through the pipeline to prove themselves, and a 2nd + Gilbert makes more sense for the team right now.

 

[FerrisRox]

I am not happy about this, Gorges in Toronto for Franson? I would of loved to see Franson in Montreal playing with Tinordi, both over 6'5" tall

http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/06/30/montreal-canadiens-trying-move-josh-gorges/

I find it difficult to believe that with all of the good people Montreal have in their management team, the could possibly have been dumb enough to go after Cody Franson.

He doesn't use his size at all, can't skate worth a damn and has a ten cent head.

It's truly impossible to believe that the management team would have preferred turning Josh Gorges into Cody Franson to what they actually did which was get a 2nd rounder and Tom Gilbert.

 

[calder candidate]

Even if we would of gotten Franson I still think we would of sign Gilbert, Weaver would of be the odd man out.

I agree that Franson is worth more than a second round pick since most second rounders never make the NHL. But a draft pick is more exciting ultimately I rather have Weaver for one year and geting rig of the cap hit than having Franson which isn't part of the long term solution.