The Gino Odjick for ROH Campaign

[vadim sharifijanov]

Sort of agree. If Gino gets into the ring of honour then lots of others should as well. I like Gino but if he gets honoured, so should Donald brasher and a lot of others as well should

i feel like if you can't tell the difference between what gino meant to this franchise and what every other fighter, including brashear did, then you weren't there. (which of course is exactly the reason we have retired jerseys and rings of honour in the first place.)

the only guy i feel like might also have that cult hero status, though i wasn't there so i'm not really sure, is tiger williams.

 

[MS]

There are 624 Canucks in franchise history and if I was ranking them from 1-624 in terms of jersey retirement/ROH credentials it would be :

1. Henrik
2. Daniel
3. Linden
.....
622. Gudbranson
623. Brashear
624. Messier

Absolutely hated the guy. Selfish cheap-shot artist who ducked guys who he didn't think he could win fights against. Addition by subtraction when he left.

 

[PavelBure10]

There are 624 Canucks in franchise history and if I was ranking them from 1-624 in terms of jersey retirement/ROH credentials it would be :

1. Henrik
2. Daniel
3. Linden
.....
622. Gudbranson
623. Brashear
624. Messier

Absolutely hated the guy. Selfish cheap-shot artist who ducked guys who he didn't think he could win fights against. Addition by subtraction when he left.

I think Gino got carried away at times yes, but he has a decent fight card. He's fought Dave Brown, Marty McSorley, Tony Twist, and Tie Domi more than a bunch of times. Some of the toughest to play the game. Although he didn't always win, he was more than willing.

I for one thought his goofy character on the team was quite enjoyable.

 

[MS]

I think Gino got carried away at times yes, but he has a decent fight card. He's fought Dave Brown, Marty McSorley, Tony Twist, and Tie Domi more than a bunch of times. Some of the toughest to play the game. Although he didn't always win, he was more than willing.

I for one thought his goofy character on the team was quite enjoyable.

I loved Gino! Even if I don't think he belongs in the ROH. My comments above were about Brashear, who was the absolute antithesis of Gino as a team player.

 

[PavelBure10]

I loved Gino! Even if I don't think he belongs in the ROH. My comments above were about Brashear, who was the absolute antithesis of Gino as a team player.

My apologies. I thought you were talkin Gino.

Brashear wasn't nearly as likable that's for sure. His pull you in close and rabbit punch style was effective but boring. Yes he also dodged out on a few fighters, more notable being Mcsorley. You must of been happy when Belak finally rang his bell.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

for standing up to keenan alone i can’t have brashear below sam gagner, b sutter, cody, and at least a few other lazies and/or jerkwads. and to go way back, dan quinn. man i hated that guy. also, eriksson, granlund, gudbranson, vey, a lot of recent guys just leave a bad taste in your mouth when you watch them play.

but then actually i was pretty neutral on brashear all told. never had a problem with him.

 

[MS]

My apologies. I thought you were talkin Gino.

Brashear wasn't nearly as likable that's for sure. His pull you in close and rabbit punch style was effective but boring. Yes he also dodged out on a few fighters, more notable being Mcsorley. You must of been happy when Belak finally rang his bell.

Even if Gino was undisciplined at times, he was all about the team. Standing up for his teammates, making room for his teammates, loved by his teammates.

Brashear was all about Brashear. Once threatened to stop fighting if the team didn't play him as a regular on the PP (incredibly, Crawford obliged!). Constant turnovers trying to dangle with the puck. Fought for himself, not the situation or his teammates. If he knew he could pummel some scrub like Jim Cummins, he'd be trying to fight him every game. But ducked Laraque, ducked Eric Cairns after Cairns cleaned his clock, ducked McSorley.

My defining Brashear moment is from a game I was at against Calgary in the middle of the 99-00 season. Brashear smokes tiny little Marc Savard from behind into the boards, injuring him (and probably a contributing factor in his eventual PCS retirement). Robyn Regehr, who at that point is 19 years old and in about his 20th NHL game, comes in and bravely stands up for Savard and scraps Brashear. Predictably, Brashear then destroys him. And then, after putting his team shorthanded in a tie game, injuring a small skill player on the opposing team with a cheapshot and winning a fight with a teenager, is running around the ice celebrating and showboating for the fans like a total clown show. Just a total disgrace that made me embarrassed to be a fan. And it has hardly an isolated occurrence - I remember another game around that time where he nearly took off Chris Drury's head with an elbow and Colorado spent the rest of the game taking runs at Markus Naslund in retaliation.

Next home game after Calgary was the McSorley game and Brashear honestly got exactly what he deserved.

And I haven't even mentioned the multiple off-ice assault charges yet.

Vancouver was 14-19-4 when they traded Brashear in 2001-02 and got his cancerous ass off the team and then went 28-11-6 the rest of the way. Addition by subtraction.

 

[vancityluongo]

for standing up to keenan alone i can’t have brashear below sam gagner, b sutter, cody, and at least a few other lazies and/or jerkwads. and to go way back, dan quinn. man i hated that guy. also, eriksson, granlund, gudbranson, vey, a lot of recent guys just leave a bad taste in your mouth when you watch them play.

but then actually i was pretty neutral on brashear all told. never had a problem with him.

I mean obviously this is v subjective so fair enough, but... Gagner? Some friends know him personally and say he's one of the nicest players ever to play in Edmonton. Example. My thoughts on him are that he was totally horribly miscast here, due to no fault of his own.

Cody... I think I forgive him after finding out about his health problems. Was he a jackass about it? Yeah. But I imagine it was very frustrating to feel off and have a team of people who should be on your side go against you.

The others, yeah. I think I have Eric Weinrich on the list (iirc he was horrendously bad after the deadline trade), and then he made some comments about hating his time here? And the yellow visor lol. Steve McCarthy, Marc Chouinard, Tommi Santala all probably have spots on the list too.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I mean obviously this is v subjective so fair enough, but... Gagner? Some friends know him personally and say he's one of the nicest players ever to play in Edmonton. Example. My thoughts on him are that he was totally horribly miscast here, due to no fault of his own.

Cody... I think I forgive him after finding out about his health problems. Was he a jackass about it? Yeah. But I imagine it was very frustrating to feel off and have a team of people who should be on your side go against you.

The others, yeah. I think I have Eric Weinrich on the list (iirc he was horrendously bad after the deadline trade), and then he made some comments about hating his time here? And the yellow visor lol. Steve McCarthy, Marc Chouinard, Tommi Santala all probably have spots on the list too.

i'm sure gagner is a fine person, i'm sure most of those guys are fine people actually. i just hated watching gagner play. so soft on the puck, no intensity at all, like most of those other guys i listed., but somehow he just stood out to me as especially bad.

who else did i hate? sandlak, nedved, murzyn, SOB, prust, i didn't like ryan miller at all but that was also from before he was here...

 

[RobertKron]

I mean obviously this is v subjective so fair enough, but... Gagner? Some friends know him personally and say he's one of the nicest players ever to play in Edmonton. Example. My thoughts on him are that he was totally horribly miscast here, due to no fault of his own.

Cody... I think I forgive him after finding out about his health problems. Was he a jackass about it? Yeah. But I imagine it was very frustrating to feel off and have a team of people who should be on your side go against you.

The others, yeah. I think I have Eric Weinrich on the list (iirc he was horrendously bad after the deadline trade), and then he made some comments about hating his time here? And the yellow visor lol. Steve McCarthy, Marc Chouinard, Tommi Santala all probably have spots on the list too.

what did Tommi Santala ever do to you?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Even if Gino was undisciplined at times, he was all about the team. Standing up for his teammates, making room for his teammates, loved by his teammates.

Brashear was all about Brashear. Once threatened to stop fighting if the team didn't play him as a regular on the PP (incredibly, Crawford obliged!). Constant turnovers trying to dangle with the puck. Fought for himself, not the situation or his teammates. If he knew he could pummel some scrub like Jim Cummins, he'd be trying to fight him every game. But ducked Laraque, ducked Eric Cairns after Cairns cleaned his clock, ducked McSorley.

My defining Brashear moment is from a game I was at against Calgary in the middle of the 99-00 season. Brashear smokes tiny little Marc Savard from behind into the boards, injuring him (and probably a contributing factor in his eventual PCS retirement). Robyn Regehr, who at that point is 19 years old and in about his 20th NHL game, comes in and bravely stands up for Savard and scraps Brashear. Predictably, Brashear then destroys him. And then, after putting his team shorthanded in a tie game, injuring a small skill player on the opposing team with a cheapshot and winning a fight with a teenager, is running around the ice celebrating and showboating for the fans like a total clown show. Just a total disgrace that made me embarrassed to be a fan. And it has hardly an isolated occurrence - I remember another game around that time where he nearly took off Chris Drury's head with an elbow and Colorado spent the rest of the game taking runs at Markus Naslund in retaliation.

Next home game after Calgary was the McSorley game and Brashear honestly got exactly what he deserved.

And I haven't even mentioned the multiple off-ice assault charges yet.

Vancouver was 14-19-4 when they traded Brashear in 2001-02 and got his cancerous ass off the team and then went 28-11-6 the rest of the way. Addition by subtraction.

While I think saying Brashear got what he deserved from McSorley is a bit harsh, this is all pretty accurate, especially the last bit. Brashear was actually a reasonably productive player on the ice, especially for a guy who could fight (and fight well, in spite of being a spot picker). He was traded for one reason - and that was his attitude. The Canucks suddenly (and not unexpectedly) improved a fair deal when he was dealt away.

 

[iceburg]

Questions like these are always a matter of the criteria. it would seem everyone has a slightly different view/weighting of the criteria, which is ok.

For something like ROH or jersey retirement, things like skill, hero status, and toughness could be considered. I honestly don't think toughness in and of itself should be weighted that highly. It might be something that puts a player over the top but not something that is required at all. Skill and hero status are required, IMO. Skill is obvious. Hero status is determined by a combination of popularity, contribution to franchise defining moments, etc. In other words, how a player makes the fans "feel".

If you look at 3 players, Naslund, Linden, and Burrows, to me it breaks down like this on a 1 to 5 scale for each of skill and hero status.

Linden, skill 4, hero status 5
Naslund, skill 5, hero status 3
Burrows skill 3, hero status 5

Skill is weighted more heavily for jersey retirement. Hero status is weighted more for ROH. Naslund's jersey is retired. Burrows is in the ROH.

I know this is a very simplistic way of looking at things but sometimes it helps to be simple.

By these criteria and rankings I see Gino as a 1 for skill (not saying he didn't have skill, just where he would rank relative to other players) and a 4 for hero status. He should not be in the ROH though I loved watching him play.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

While I think saying Brashear got what he deserved from McSorley is a bit harsh

well now that we've taken it this far is it finally okay for me to say out loud that steve moore got what he deserved? because if i'm being honest the reptile part of my brain still thinks so.

 

[MS]

While I think saying Brashear got what he deserved from McSorley is a bit harsh, this is all pretty accurate, especially the last bit. Brashear was actually a reasonably productive player on the ice, especially for a guy who could fight (and fight well, in spite of being a spot picker). He was traded for one reason - and that was his attitude. The Canucks suddenly (and not unexpectedly) improved a fair deal when he was dealt away.

Yeah, maybe 'got what he deserved' is a bit strong and not exactly how I'd want to phrase it. Head injuries aren't a nice thing to happen to anybody. 'Karma is a bitch' might be closer and it was hard to feel too sorry for him.

My feelings for Brashear come close to my feelings for Messier. More than any other player in franchise history, his antics in a Canuck uniform made me feel ashamed to be cheering for that uniform.

 

[MS]

i'm sure gagner is a fine person, i'm sure most of those guys are fine people actually. i just hated watching gagner play. so soft on the puck, no intensity at all, like most of those other guys i listed., but somehow he just stood out to me as especially bad.

who else did i hate? sandlak, nedved, murzyn, SOB, prust, i didn't like ryan miller at all but that was also from before he was here...

I will die on Dana Murzyn Hill. Most unfairly maligned player in franchise history.

Guy was hard as nails, stuck up for his teammates, an absolute nasty piece of work in front of the net clearing the crease and in the corners. And not totally unskilled for a defensive defender. But he was a bit slow, and every 10 games or so looked really bad when a guy burned him wide. And everyone would freak out about it. But the guy chewed through top-pairing high-leverage minutes for this team for years doing more than enough to make up for his weaknesses and I don't think there was honestly that much difference in quality between Murzyn and, say, Jeff Beukeboom.

 

[Vector]

My landlord of three years HATED Murzyn. Any conversation about the Canucks was about how much she still hated him and how the Aquilinis will run the team into the ground.

 

[MS]

My landlord of three years HATED Murzyn. Any conversation about the Canucks was about how much she still hated him and how the Aquilinis will run the team into the ground.

Murzyn made mistakes that were really obvious to casual fans and did things well that were much harder for them to see. You don't notice goals that aren't scored because Kirk McLean had a perfect lane to track the puck because the opposing forward was on his ass well out of the way.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I always liked Murzyn; he was just always there, it seemed like. And yeah, when you look at the pantheon of bad Canucks defenders - even just in recent history - he really doesn’t deserve a lot of the flak he gets. He looks like the second coming of Bobby Orr compared to some of the guys we’ve seen patrolling our blueline in the 21st century.

 

[MS]

I always liked Murzyn; he was just always there, it seemed like. And yeah, when you look at the pantheon of bad Canucks defenders - even just in recent history - he really doesn’t deserve a lot of the flak he gets. He looks like the second coming of Bobby Orr compared to some of the guys we’ve seen patrolling our blueline in the 21st century.

Like, Murray Baron was a worse version of the same player and nobody hates him. Jason Strudwick was a TERRIBLE player but well-liked.

Murzyn was not a perfect player, but he was very good at what he did and the guy was *strong* and won an absolute shitload of 1-on-1 battles.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I will die on Dana Murzyn Hill. Most unfairly maligned player in franchise history.

Guy was hard as nails, stuck up for his teammates, an absolute nasty piece of work in front of the net clearing the crease and in the corners. And not totally unskilled for a defensive defender. But he was a bit slow, and every 10 games or so looked really bad when a guy burned him wide. And everyone would freak out about it. But the guy chewed through top-pairing high-leverage minutes for this team for years doing more than enough to make up for his weaknesses and I don't think there was honestly that much difference in quality between Murzyn and, say, Jeff Beukeboom.

Murzyn made mistakes that were really obvious to casual fans and did things well that were much harder for them to see. You don't notice goals that aren't scored because Kirk McLean had a perfect lane to track the puck because the opposing forward was on his ass well out of the way.

Like, Murray Baron was a worse version of the same player and nobody hates him. Jason Strudwick was a TERRIBLE player but well-liked.

Murzyn was not a perfect player, but he was very good at what he did and the guy was *strong* and won an absolute shitload of 1-on-1 battles.

wow i did not see that in him, like at all. i mean, he was a passable top four dman but he wasn't the kind of defensive guy that makes his partner's life easier, the way mitchell or hamhuis did for bieksa, or murray baron did for jovo.

the thing i remember most, except for the getting spectacularly walked, is he was like kevin hatcher in that he would show you flashes of being a big tough punishing defensive presence, but his intensity wavered. jovo is another example of that, only a wilder funner ride. sometimes you got big hits and sometimes you wondered how such a huge guy could be so passive. my feeling on him was similar to my feeling on sandlak in that respect.

now gerald diduck, that guy to me was what you're describing with murzyn. tough as nails, did the lord's work in front of the net, positionally smart af, he and babych took on the opposition's best and were not fun to play against.

 

[MS]

wow i did not see that in him, like at all. i mean, he was a passable top four dman but he wasn't the kind of defensive guy that makes his partner's life easier, the way mitchell or hamhuis did for bieksa, or murray baron did for jovo.

the thing i remember most, except for the getting spectacularly walked, is he was like kevin hatcher in that he would show you flashes of being a big tough punishing defensive presence, but his intensity wavered. jovo is another example of that, only a wilder funner ride. sometimes you got big hits and sometimes you wondered how such a huge guy could be so passive. my feeling on him was similar to my feeling on sandlak in that respect.

now gerald diduck, that guy to me was what you're describing with murzyn. tough as nails, did the lord's work in front of the net, positionally smart af, he and babych took on the opposition's best and were not fun to play against.

Diduck was of course better than Murzyn. One of the most under appreciated players ever. I honestly think Diduck was pretty much the equivalent player to what Adam Foote was a few years later for Colorado. But didn’t win Cups and wasn’t ever in one place long enough to build the reputation he deserved (his wife forced a couple trades). And was injured a lot.

But that doesn’t mean Murzyn wasn’t solid. You’d really take him ahead of Baron? To me Murzyn was head and shoulders better in all aspects of the game except skating, and honestly not by much on the skating front. Murzyn-Lumme was a top pairing on this club for years, and Murzyn was doing a ton of hard yards and dirty work and there’s a reason he was always churning out terrific goal differentials from hard minutes. Great on the PK as well.

Never felt that Murzyn was ‘passive’. He was consistently mean as hell in my eyes and an absolute lumberjack in front of his net. He did get crap from fans for not fighting more, but he was a terrible fighter.

 

[sting101]

Cool reminisce

Diduck was a very good top4 guy. Him and Babych were legit and overlooked somewhat. Diduck especially and i would echo MS and his thoughts on Gerald

Murzyn was a good team guy and technically sound but jesus was he stiff slow as molasses and irrelevant offensively. I thought he sucked mostly but he was reliable aside from getting turnstiled and would always mange to hit Gretzky which i enjoyed. Him and Lumme were good for a few years but make no mistake Jyrki carried him.

Brashear was such a clown. Right there with Matt Cooke for me.

I'm not an advocate for Gino to be in the ring of honor but you have to respect the fact that Gino understood that being a great team guy and answering and entertaining the fanbase was an important piece of his popularity and respect.

I was at his very first game against the Chicago and watched him run around like a maniac fight Manson and Grimson and then when booted apparently leaned over to Bob McCammon and told him "Don't lose the game without me"....the legend was born. Such a character. Loved Gino.

 

[RussianRacket]

For some reason I have a memory of there being news stories about Brashear trying to change as a player in his time with the Canucks, and trying to increase his skill level and playmaking abilities. And for some reason I remember him really trying, with it culminating with a really sick goal against the Red Wings.

but that is also a memory from 10-12 year old me so its hazy at best, and at worst entirely self-constructed

 

[RobertKron]

For some reason I have a memory of there being news stories about Brashear trying to change as a player in his time with the Canucks, and trying to increase his skill level and playmaking abilities. And for some reason I remember him really trying, with it culminating with a really sick goal against the Red Wings.

but that is also a memory from 10-12 year old me so its hazy at best, and at worst entirely self-constructed

Brashear led his AHL team in goals, second in points as a 21-year old, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were articles about how he hadn't wanted to be a fighter growing up, and maybe-he's-got-more-in-him type stories.

IIRC, he had an absolutely horrific upbringing. Obviously that doesn't excuse him for how he acted as an adult, but it's tough not to sympathize with him and see the way that it could have led to his adult attitude and behaviour. There was an article about him a while back, and I remember some of it being genuinely difficult to read.

 

[RussianRacket]

yeah even within his hockey career it is clear Brashear was forced into a playing style that likely 0vercame any actual love or purpose in hockey until it turned into something else entirely. Same with Boogaard.

Thankfully those types of players are no longer desired, so kids aren't lured down the path