The Gino Odjick for ROH Campaign

[Rumsfeld]

Linden's number shouldn't be up there either. This franchise is so embarrassing.

 

[Rumsfeld]

If your best player is a winger, you probably aren't going anywhere.

Ovechkin, Jagr and Bure are definitely exceptions to that theory. Kariya and Selanne for the Ducks, there are probably many more.

I understand what you're saying though.

 

[tyhee]

You seriously don't think the Oilers should retire Kurri's jersey? Maybe you should be a fan of baseball where nobody gets into the hall of fame and everyone pretends that that's really important.

You probably have a point about Kurri. He wouldn't have had his number retired in the era when I was the biggest fan-as a kid-but certainly by today's standards the honour is deserved.

It's a matter of outlook. Mine comes from the era in which I grew up. It is very different from the way number retirements are treated today.

I grew up in the 1950's and 1960's. Retiring jersey numbers didn't become common until quite a few years later and some of the older teams later played catchup with their old-time greats, but being a kid in an era in which jerseys were rarely retired stuck with me and I still think it should be an unusual honour-perhaps not so unusual as in those days, but more unusual than is the case for the Canucks.

I'll give a few examples of older jersey numbers that weren't retired in the days I was growing up to try to give those unfamiliar with the change an idea of how big the change is.

A few years after trading Phil Esposito, the Bruins assigned his jersey number 7 to an 18 year old kid that they had just chosen with the 8th overall pick in the 1979 draft (incidentally, the 4th defenceman chosen in that draft.) Esposito had won the Art Ross trophy as the league leading scorer five times, the Hart as mvp once, the Pearson (now Lindsay) award as most outstanding player twice and been a first team all-star six consecutive seasons and 2nd team all-star the seasons before and after that run, all wearing that jersey number 7.

Nine years later, in 1987, that Bruins 1979 eighth overall pick, Ray Bourque, changed to a different jersey number and the Bruins retired the number.

I grew up in and around Toronto as a fan of the Leafs. My biggest disappointment in moving to Vancouver in 1967 was going from a city that had won the Stanley Cup four of the past six seasons to a city with no NHL team. The Leafs didn't retire jerseys readily when I was young. For example, in 1971 the Leafs assigned Frank Mahovlich's old jersey # 27 to a rookie that they had just chosen with the 8th overall pick in that year's draft. Mahovlich had won the Calder and been on the 1st or 2nd all-star team 6 consecutive years with that jersey. Many years after that 1971 8th overall pick, Darryl Sittler, retired, the Leafs decided to play catchup and retire the jerseys of their old time greats. # 27 wasn't the only jersey that in 2016 was retired by the Leafs, to my mind somewhat embarrassingly, in favour of two players.

Syl Apps won the Calder and the Lady Byng and was twice a 1st team all-star, twice a 2nd team all-star and in the top 3 in Hart voting for five consecutive seasons as # 10 for the Leafs. The Leafs reassigned his jersey number and in 2016 it was finally retired in joint honour of Apps and George Armstrong.

Charlie Conacher was a 1st team all-star for three consecutive seasons and 2nd team all-star the two seasons before that wearing number 9. The number was frequently reassigned and I remember Dick Duff wearing it in the late 50's and early 60's. Among those it was reassigned to was Ted Kennedy, who won the Hart as MVP wearing it as well as being the 2nd all-star team center three times. This was another number the Leafs played catchup with in 2016, in honour of Conacher and Kennedy.

When I first became a hockey fan teams typically played one goaltender for as many games in the season as he was healthy. That goalie was traditionally assigned the number 1 on each of the six NHL teams.

Turk Broda twice won the Vezina Trophy, then awarded to the league's best goalie, and made 3 all-star teams (twice 1st team) wearing jersey # 1. The Leafs continued regularly assigning # 1 to their goalie and included in those goalies who wore # 1 for the Leafs was Johnny Bower, who also won the Vezina trophy twice wearing that number. The Leafs retired the number in 2016 in honour of those two players. I was old school enough to like the goalie being traditionally assigned # 1. Detroit, Chicago, Montreal and New York also retired the number 1 quite a few years after the departure and retirement of the players in whose honour the numbers were retired, though the Leafs were by far the latest of those pre-1967 teams to retire that number. It hasn't been retired in Boston.

Dave Keon won the Calder and Conn Smythe and twice won the Lady Byng as # 14 for the Leafs. That number too was retired decades later, in the big Leafs catchup ceremony of October 15, 2016.

I could go on but you'll get the picture. I grew up in an era where retiring jersey numbers wasn't treated the way it is today. Linden and Smyl, among others, wouldn't have had their jerseys retired in those days. Jari Kurri achieved less than Mahovlich and Esposito did and their numbers were reassigned. While his jersey wouldn't have been retired in the '60's, clearly by today's standards he is good enough to have his jersey retired.

Similarly to many other grandpas, I've never adjusted to the change. I particularly didn't like # 1, the number that when I was a kid was traditionally assigned to a team's goaltender, becoming unavailable to goalies on five of the six teams that made up the NHL as I was growing up.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Ovechkin, Jagr and Bure are definitely exceptions to that theory. Kariya and Selanne for the Ducks, there are probably many more.

I understand what you're saying though.

Except not really.
Kariya and Selanne didn't sniff a cup (until Kariya became a less significant player and Selanne was gone, and even then it was only a Finals trip) When Selanne won a Cup they had Pronger and Niedermayer.. Ovie didn't win a cup until there were 3 or 4 players arguably as important. I thin Kuznetsov deserved that Conn Smythe.
Jagr didn't win any cups as his teams best player.
Bure didn't win anything as his team's best player (or at all).

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

You probably have a point about Kurri. He wouldn't have had his number retired in the era when I was the biggest fan-as a kid-but certainly by today's standards the honour is deserved.

It's a matter of outlook. Mine comes from the era in which I grew up. It is very different from the way number retirements are treated today.

I grew up in the 1950's and 1960's. Retiring jersey numbers didn't become common until quite a few years later and some of the older teams later played catchup with their old-time greats, but being a kid in an era in which jerseys were rarely retired stuck with me and I still think it should be an unusual honour-perhaps not so unusual as in those days, but more unusual than is the case for the Canucks.

I'll give a few examples of older jersey numbers that weren't retired in the days I was growing up to try to give those unfamiliar with the change an idea of how big the change is.

A few years after trading Phil Esposito, the Bruins assigned his jersey number 7 to an 18 year old kid that they had just chosen with the 8th overall pick in the 1979 draft (incidentally, the 4th defenceman chosen in that draft.) Esposito had won the Art Ross trophy as the league leading scorer five times, the Hart as mvp once, the Pearson (now Lindsay) award as most outstanding player twice and been a first team all-star six consecutive seasons and 2nd team all-star the seasons before and after that run, all wearing that jersey number 7.

Nine years later, in 1987, that Bruins 1979 eighth overall pick, Ray Bourque, changed to a different jersey number and the Bruins retired the number.

I grew up in and around Toronto as a fan of the Leafs. My biggest disappointment in moving to Vancouver in 1967 was going from a city that had won the Stanley Cup four of the past six seasons to a city with no NHL team. The Leafs didn't retire jerseys readily when I was young. For example, in 1971 the Leafs assigned Frank Mahovlich's old jersey # 27 to a rookie that they had just chosen with the 8th overall pick in that year's draft. Mahovlich had won the Calder and been on the 1st or 2nd all-star team 6 consecutive years with that jersey. Many years after that 1971 8th overall pick, Darryl Sittler, retired, the Leafs decided to play catchup and retire the jerseys of their old time greats. # 27 wasn't the only jersey that in 2016 was retired by the Leafs, to my mind somewhat embarrassingly, in favour of two players.

Syl Apps won the Calder and the Lady Byng and was twice a 1st team all-star, twice a 2nd team all-star and in the top 3 in Hart voting for five consecutive seasons as # 10 for the Leafs. The Leafs reassigned his jersey number and in 2016 it was finally retired in joint honour of Apps and George Armstrong.

Charlie Conacher was a 1st team all-star for three consecutive seasons and 2nd team all-star the two seasons before that wearing number 9. The number was frequently reassigned and I remember Dick Duff wearing it in the late 50's and early 60's. Among those it was reassigned to was Ted Kennedy, who won the Hart as MVP wearing it as well as being the 2nd all-star team center three times. This was another number the Leafs played catchup with in 2016, in honour of Conacher and Kennedy.

When I first became a hockey fan teams typically played one goaltender for as many games in the season as he was healthy. That goalie was traditionally assigned the number 1 on each of the six NHL teams.

Turk Broda twice won the Vezina Trophy, then awarded to the league's best goalie, and made 3 all-star teams (twice 1st team) wearing jersey # 1. The Leafs continued regularly assigning # 1 to their goalie and included in those goalies who wore # 1 for the Leafs was Johnny Bower, who also won the Vezina trophy twice wearing that number. The Leafs retired the number in 2016 in honour of those two players. I was old school enough to like the goalie being traditionally assigned # 1. Detroit, Chicago, Montreal and New York also retired the number 1 quite a few years after the departure and retirement of the players in whose honour the numbers were retired, though the Leafs were by far the latest of those pre-1967 teams to retire that number. It hasn't been retired in Boston.

Dave Keon won the Calder and Conn Smythe and twice won the Lady Byng as # 14 for the Leafs. That number too was retired decades later, in the big Leafs catchup ceremony of October 15, 2016.

I could go on but you'll get the picture. I grew up in an era where retiring jersey numbers wasn't treated the way it is today. Linden and Smyl, among others, wouldn't have had their jerseys retired in those days. Jari Kurri achieved less than Mahovlich and Esposito did and their numbers were reassigned. While his jersey wouldn't have been retired in the '60's, clearly by today's standards he is good enough to have his jersey retired.

Similarly to many other grandpas, I've never adjusted to the change. I particularly didn't like # 1, the number that when I was a kid was traditionally assigned to a team's goaltender, becoming unavailable to goalies on five of the six teams that made up the NHL as I was growing up.

We do find that the way things were when we came of age is, 'the natural order of things', don't we? Funny how human nature works.

Anyhow, personally I'm not as precious about it. Bourque having his number retired by Colorado might be a bit funny, but it was sort of on the heels of the league retiring Gretzky's number league wide. I can sort of see it as an homage. But in general, hockey is entertainment, if you're a fan for a long enough time it becomes it's own narrative. I think there's something really cool about looking into the rafters as a man in his mid-30's and seeing some of the names of my heroes as a child, even if they weren't Gretzky or Lemieux level.

I think some of those make sense. Esposito was still playing, so it made sense that his number might still be in circulation. I also think it's sort of embarrassing for the Leafs to wait so long to retire Mahovlich's number.

Some of the stats you you cite are also contextual. Like being a 1st or 2nd team all star a few years in a row in a 6 team league is much less impressive than doing so in a 31 team league, not that I'm diminishing Mahovlich, he was a great one.

 

[Nucker101]

ROH gets foggy, but for me jersey retirements should only be reserved for HOF players who spent a large chunk of their prime years playing for your team.

 

[4Twenty]

Except not really.
Kariya and Selanne didn't sniff a cup (until Kariya became a less significant player and Selanne was gone, and even then it was only a Finals trip) When Selanne won a Cup they had Pronger and Niedermayer.. Ovie didn't win a cup until there were 3 or 4 players arguably as important. I thin Kuznetsov deserved that Conn Smythe.
Jagr didn't win any cups as his teams best player.
Bure didn't win anything as his team's best player (or at all).

Chicago’s best player (don’t let Canadian media trick you) by a mile during their 3 cups was Patrick Kane.

Kucherov could easily be argued as Tampa’s best player.

 

[nowhereman]

Chicago’s best player (don’t let Canadian media trick you) by a mile during their 3 cups was Patrick Kane.

Kucherov could easily be argued as Tampa’s best player.

It was actually Keith and you'll find most Chicago fans saying the same. In fact, most of them consider Kane to be the least valuable between their big 3, particularly because of how little he contributed defensively (if you can even say that Kane plays "defense"). Kane had the theatrics and was, admittedly, a big game player but Keith was the backbone of that team.

I do agree that the Canadian media pumped Toews' tires more than they probably should have (trying ridiculously to compare him to a prime Sidney Crosby) but it was mainly at the expense of short-changing Keith, more so than Kane.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Chicago’s best player (don’t let Canadian media trick you) by a mile during their 3 cups was Patrick Kane.

Kucherov could easily be argued as Tampa’s best player.

In terms of most integral player it depended on the cup. But for no cup was Kane the most integral player.

 

[4Twenty]

In terms of most integral player it depended on the cup. But for no cup was Kane the most integral player.

Clearly I disagree. I don’t think they win one without him. Clearly the supreme talent on those forward rosters. Got it done with any linemate. Their shuffles were always to get Toews going.

If it’s Keith, it’s by a hair.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

In terms of most integral player it depended on the cup. But for no cup was Kane the most integral player.

you could have given keith all three conn smythes and i wouldn’t have argued but i think you could make a case for kane in 2010. imo his clutch scoring was most indispensable that year.

 

[4Twenty]

you could have given keith all three conn smythes and i wouldn’t have argued but i think you could make a case for kane in 2010. imo his clutch scoring was most indispensable that year.

We can all agree that Toews didn’t deserve the first smythe. Pure Canadian media.
Imo Kane is one or two every year they won and is their premier forward.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

We can all agree that Toews didn’t deserve the first smythe. Pure Canadian media.
Imo Kane is one or two every year they won and is their premier forward.

well toews was not especially impressive in the finals, and kane was, but otoh if you consider us their toughest series in 2010 toews was certainly their best player in that series. man alive he killed us.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Except not really.
Kariya and Selanne didn't sniff a cup (until Kariya became a less significant player and Selanne was gone, and even then it was only a Finals trip) When Selanne won a Cup they had Pronger and Niedermayer.. Ovie didn't win a cup until there were 3 or 4 players arguably as important. I thin Kuznetsov deserved that Conn Smythe.
Jagr didn't win any cups as his teams best player.
Bure didn't win anything as his team's best player (or at all).

agree about kariya/selanne. those two didn’t do shit as anaheim’s top guys.

but we lost the stanley cup finals by one. single. goal and two of our best three players were RWs. that’s not really the same thing as the nothing you’re comparing it to.

 

[eli4spetterss0n]

ROH gets foggy, but for me jersey retirements should only be reserved for HOF players who spent a large chunk of their prime years playing for your team.

100% agree. I think the only two jerseys we should have retired are 22 and 33.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

agree about kariya/selanne. those two didn’t do shit as anaheim’s top guys.

but we lost the stanley cup finals by one. single. goal and two of our best three players were RWs. that’s not really the same thing as the nothing you’re comparing it to.

Well, Linden was playing center and was a competent center. Further, they received not just competent goal tending, but superior, lightening in a bottle goaltending.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

We can all agree that Toews didn’t deserve the first smythe. Pure Canadian media.
Imo Kane is one or two every year they won and is their premier forward.

No, we definitely cannot all agree that. Toews didn't put up many points in the finals but he was dominant in the rest of the playoffs.

 

[Hansen]

Personally I think he should, he's a legend in team history (not that the bar is particularly high for the teams history)

He brought energy to the arena and had a cult following in ways that most losers who put up the odd 70 point season often enough to warrant ROH didnt. Lets not pretend that being good at hockey is all there is to celebrate and honour

At the very least the team should do something to put in a permanent installation honouring him at Rogers somewhere (i.e. a sculpture of him and Bure somewhere would be cool)

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Personally I think he should, he's a legend in team history (not that the bar is particularly high for the teams history)

He brought energy to the arena and had a cult following in ways that most losers who put up the odd 70 point season often enough to warrant ROH didnt. Lets not pretend that being good at hockey is all there is to celebrate and honour

At the very least the team should do something to put in a permanent installation honouring him at Rogers somewhere (i.e. a sculpture of him and Bure somewhere would be cool)

this photo is iconic from my childhood. they should make sweatshirts of it in one of those faded millennial colours

would totally buy an oversize to wear around the house and pretend i'm a 20 year old girl in art school

 

[Hammer79]

Who's next? Jeff Cowan the bra-barian? It's ring of honour, not ring of random fan-favorites.

 

[RobertKron]

Who's next? Jeff Cowan the bra-barian? It's ring of honour, not ring of random fan-favorites.

I don't really care one way or the other, because I don't really care who is in the ring of honour in the first place, but I'm curious what you think the criteria are for it? It's just a thing the team made up to drum up excitement.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Absolutely not. My god. His illness sucks and from the little I know he seems like a legit good guy. One of the toughest canucks ever. All that said, please ..... if he goes up there we set a standard to allow 1000 other plugs.

 

[Hammer79]

I don't really care one way or the other, because I don't really care who is in the ring of honour in the first place, but I'm curious what you think the criteria are for it? It's just a thing the team made up to drum up excitement.

I think a forward should at least have had a dominate season or two; at least top 30 offense in the NHL for 1 or 2 seasons, before we consider them. D should be legit top pairing for an extended period.

Gino got his points as Bure's body guard and Bure would set him up just because it was funny with the goalie focusing on Bure the entire time. Gino's just a face-puncher who was lucky enough to play with Bure.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think a forward should at least have had a dominate season or two; at least top 30 offense in the NHL for 1 or 2 seasons, before we consider them. D should be legit top pairing for an extended period.

Gino got his points as Bure's body guard and Bure would set him up just because it was funny with the goalie focusing on Bure the entire time. Gino's just a face-puncher who was lucky enough to play with Bure.

i’d say for the sake of this discussion about honouring odjick and his contributions to the franchise, gino was one hell of a face puncher and any goals he scored with bure are next to meaningless.

the question is, is the face punching enough? idk but that’s the question. i don’t think anyone cares about the five odd goals he scored on bure tap ins every year.

 

[archangel2]

OP is probably the type to think every child who participates in a tournament is a winner and deserves a trophy lol

Sort of agree. If Gino gets into the ring of honour then lots of others should as well. I like Gino but if he gets honoured, so should Donald brasher and a lot of others as well should