The future of our defense core?

[Nithoniniel]

I think our future defensive core is built around Rielly and Gardiner. I don't think we need to bring in anything really, except one top four who can play both PP and PK. I would look at Strålman, but Niskanen is another option. More expensive though. Here's my reasoning:

Rielly is on course to be a #1, we need to just move him up the depth chart at the right pace so he keeps evolving but with patience.

Gardiner gets too much crap in my opinion. He makes mistakes, but that's not surprising considering what kind of pressure our defensemen are put under. Other than that, he's great for possession and was on ice for the least amount of goals against even strength of the entire team. He has big qualities. He's on his way to becoming a Shattenkirk type of #2, anchoring a second pairing.

We have a nice couple of two-way D that can support them with Percy and Finn. With that group of four we would have flexibility, offense, defensive aptitude... pretty much everything we could want except physicality and slot presence. Since it's possible, if not likely, that one of them won't reach this level I think we should see if we could sign either Strålman or Niskanen. Careful though, better to say no than deal out a bad contract. But a player like that would give us stability and allow our prospects to develop at their own place. A decent contract gives us the option of trading this player if he is replaced.

Around them we have a group of solid stay at home defensemen that can supply grit, physicality and presence in the slot. Gunnarsson we already know, he might not have the physicality but he is a great support piece on the D-core, and then I think the whole group of Granberg, Nilsson, Lööv and MacWilliam can become solid NHL-players. Ranger and Gleason will be kept until these players can replace them.

That leaves us with Phaneuf. In case things go well then he is redundant, but that doesn't mean we should trade him right away. For one he is a good defensemen, but we also want to be careful about what kind of responsibility we put on our developing players. It's for that reason he needs to stay for a while at least.

I hope we go into next season with:

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - Strålman
Rielly - Granberg
Ranger - Gleason

Percy gets callups, Finn gets time to develop. MacWilliam, Nilsson and Lööv continue to develop in minors, with the odd looks at NHL level.

Hoped end result:

Rielly - Percy
Gardiner - Granberg
Finn - Nilsson
Lööv

Phaneuf, Gunnarsson and Strålman moved giving us long-term assets. Gleasons contract expires, Ranger let go.

Pessimistic version:

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Rielly - Strålman
Gardiner - Granberg
Percy/Finn

Even if things go worse than I think, we still ice a good group of defensemen. Rielly might not become a #1, but can't see him not becoming a #2 in the shape of Shattenkirk. Gardiner as a puck moving bottom pairing D would be a strength, Granberg is basically a can't miss as at least a defensive bottom pairing D. With better depth, we don't need to lean on (and break) Phaneuf.

 

[613Leafer]

I really hope Dion will be gone before training camp start the same goes for Franson. Think Gunnarsson will stay around for a couple more years to unload the burden from some of our younger guys. Perhaps Ranger will find a similar role if resigned. Gleason if not bought out or traded will play out his contract but will not be resigned.

But 2-4 years from now.

Top pairing = Rielly - ???
2nd pairing = Finn - Gardiner
Shutdown pair = Percy - Granberg
7th d-man = Nilsson

Im ok with something like this. Especially since between the trade returns of phaneuf/franson and the capspace created, we'll likely be able to add another solid top 4 guy either internally or via free agency anyways.

The whole team is a work in progress, and we cant be scared to take a potential step backwards next year. Sure, we could be an even more inconsistent team without Phaneuf next season, but you have to consider what it can help this team become in 3-4 years (given the trade return + capspace).

 

[Darkside Blue]

His minutes were actually down substantially this season to 23:33 TOI/G (compared to 25:10 last year).

I wonder if he had an injury or something though, because down the stretch he looked substantially worse, plus his minutes were much lower mostly bouncing between ~17-21 minutes game. (http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/gamelog/_/id/2282/dion-phaneuf)

He certainly didn't look 100% those last few games. Funny that the Leafs never mentioned anything about an injury. Maybe it was something embarrassing like Elisha punching him out for talking too much.

 

[SprDaVE]

He certainly didn't look 100% those last few games. Funny that the Leafs never mentioned anything about an injury. Maybe it was something embarrassing like Elisha punching him out for talking too much.

I don't think he was 100% either. Missed a lot of pratices and just didn't look like he did in the first half. He labored a lot after long shifts and tough shifts.

Gunnarsson was also playing injured. He missed the last game of the season and he was seen at the Raptors game last night in a cast/crutches.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

He certainly didn't look 100% those last few games. Funny that the Leafs never mentioned anything about an injury. Maybe it was something embarrassing like Elisha punching him out for talking too much.

Think it was the snub from Team Canada along with once it started to go wrong for him he did not have it in him to turn his game around and his confidence was shut down.

Dion see him self as a legit #1 and a leader and when he have people around him that encourages him that he is one, like our GM´s then he play with confidence. But as soon as some one from out side burst his bubble, like not getting selected for Team Canada, well then he probably start doubting him self and his game suffers.

When players start to chase the game, like Dion does, bad things will happen.

 

[Al14]

This is so ridiculously wrong. Franson played BOTTOM-PAIRING minutes for the majority of last season. He would go out playing sheltered minutes against 3rd/4th lines. It's not hard to have a good +/- in that scenario.

That's like looking at the statlines for the Nashville predators (http://predators.nhl.com/club/stats.htm?gameType=2&season=20132014&srt=pm) and coming to the conclusion that Ryan Ellis was their best defenceman, because he was a +9.

Franson was bad last season. They put him against scoring lines more frequently in the last month or so of the season, and his +/- dropped by like 8-10 points. Whenever he's been used against scoring lines in a top 4 role, he's always been exposed as a crappy defenceman.\

This guy has over 300+ NHL games under his belt and is 27 this summer. We're not talking about a 20-23 year old with ~50-150 games of experience.

Yep, he played ok, and just ok, against 3rd and 4th liners IMHO.

He can't handle playing against 1st or 2nd liners. His contract demands don't match his playing ability! He needs to GTFO!

 

[Al14]

The problem is that we're using Phaneuf as a Weber/Suter/Chara, when he can't handle that. He simply can't be counted on to log so many mins. We need to lighten his load, and until we have 2 other dmen that can play against the opposing teams 1st lines, we should take him off the PP1 at least. Let our other offensively gifted dmen take that role, or pair one of them with a forward on the PP.

Well, if he can't handle the big minutes, then, he doesn't deserve to be so highly paid!

Phaneuf should have a cap hit around $5.0M IMHO. That would better reflect that he's really a 2nd D that can only handle around 20-22 minutes a game.

Phaneuf should not play the PP, or the PK for that matter, if he needs to have his minutes cut back.

 

[p.l.f.]

i'll say gardiner gets traded....

gunnarsson phaneuf
reilly granberg
gleason brennan

 

[Patty Lee]

funny of all the people suggesting Dion be gone no one offered a replacement for him.

and LOL at the suggestion the Team Canada snub hurt his feelings.

 

[Gaelman]

The Leafs have a few good prospects on D. Matt Finn, Petter Granberg and Tomas Nilsson all have upside and should see action with the big team within 3 years. Rielly is a keeper and Gardiner only gets moved for the right price, that being a potential first line centre. MacWilliam and Stuart Percy are 'tweeners who might make it or not. Knodel and Loov add some depth but are years away at best. Everson probably won't get signed. Franson and Gunnarsson are good bets to be traded. Ranger and Brennan are UFAs and most likely won't be back. Phaneuf we're stuck with because of his contract and Gleason is a good second pairing guy. Marshall and anyone else are Marlie depth players.

 

[Purity*]

funny of all the people suggesting Dion be gone no one offered a replacement for him.

and LOL at the suggestion the Team Canada snub hurt his feelings.

It's pretty hilarious. They think you can just dump a player and move dandily along like it doesn't leave a big hole in the lineup.

 

[diceman934]

It's pretty hilarious. They think you can just dump a player and move dandily along like it doesn't leave a big hole in the lineup.

Any decent defensive D man can replace what Dion brought to the team and produce better for less. The list is long.....our issue is getting someone to take his contract.

 

[mikebel111*]

The Leafs have a few good prospects on D. Matt Finn, Petter Granberg and Tomas Nilsson all have upside and should see action with the big team within 3 years. Rielly is a keeper and Gardiner only gets moved for the right price, that being a potential first line centre. MacWilliam and Stuart Percy are 'tweeners who might make it or not. Knodel and Loov add some depth but are years away at best. Everson probably won't get signed. Franson and Gunnarsson are good bets to be traded. Ranger and Brennan are UFAs and most likely won't be back. Phaneuf we're stuck with because of his contract and Gleason is a good second pairing guy. Marshall and anyone else are Marlie depth players.

Stuart Percy will make it. Look at the season he has had in the AHL in his first season. Future top 4 in the making

 

[Purity*]

Any decent defensive D man can replace what Dion brought to the team and produce better for less. The list is long.....our issue is getting someone to take his contract.

See, I'm not exactly sure it's that simple. Most teams who don't have quality defensemen are the teams that are at the bottom of the standings.

Go ahead and look at every team in the playoffs and notice how they have a dominant all-around D-man who can be used in every situation. Dion is the only thing remotely close to that.

Dumping Dion and bringing in some "decent defensive defensemen" will surely ensure us a bottom-5 finish, but then again, I really don't mind having a decent shot at McDavid.

 

[rrc1967]

near future:

Rielly - Phaneuf (too long a contract to not be there)
Gardiner - Finn
Percy - Granberg

Pairings stay intact for PK, and PP

i would love to see this perfect world where all players translate from the AHL to the NHL successfully.

 

[ACC1224]

See, I'm not exactly sure it's that simple. Most teams who don't have quality defensemen are the teams that are at the bottom of the standings.

Go ahead and look at every team in the playoffs and notice how they have a dominant all-around D-man who can be used in every situation. Dion is the only thing remotely close to that.

Dumping Dion and bringing in some "decent defensive defensemen" will surely ensure us a bottom-5 finish, but then again, I really don't mind having a decent shot at McDavid.

Not to worry, he's not going to be dumped. The Management isn't as short sighted as some here.

 

[rrc1967]

Im curious to hear what you guys think the future holds for our defense.

I thought last season was a step in the right direction yet this season has proved there is a lot of work to do.

There's a ton of work to do. first is really just the team defense strategy, and that should shake out more to what we need / require on the back end.

I see everyone slotting on AHL / prospects into the NHL club. defense is one of the most difficult translations from AHL to NHL - we're dreaming if you think depth prospects (which are all that is left in the AHL) (or even OHL in the case of Finn) are going to have guaranteed success in the NHL. I'll be ecstatic of 2 translate acceptably well.

(recall a few years ago in holzier as a good example)

the leafs defense is also very much lacking sandpaper.

 

[mikebel111*]

Holzer was put in a tough spot by Randy, he was guaranteed to fail. Should have been on bottom pairing

 

[rrc1967]

Stuart Percy will make it. Look at the season he has had in the AHL in his first season. Future top 4 in the making

he's 6'1" and 195lbs that stacks against him.

You know there's only around 24 regular defenseman in the NHL 6'1" and under?

not to mention with gunnar, rielly and gardiner (and you can argue phaneuf as well) the leafs are already lacking a consistent physical presence.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Holzer was put in a tough spot by Randy, he was guaranteed to fail. Should have been on bottom pairing

Agreed.
They give him a 2 year extension and then don't give him another shot......

They did the same thing with Kostka - give him prime minutes, he of course fails, then ship him out

 

[TankNationTillDeath]

If you are looking for the future of our defence core you must look beyond 2021 when phaneuf's contract ends and he can lay waste to the free agent line. Also, the same year we draft the next niklas lidstrom first overall.

 

[rrc1967]

Holzer was put in a tough spot by Randy, he was guaranteed to fail. Should have been on bottom pairing

and this won't obviously occur in the future where a player will be placed into a difficult role.

 

[rrc1967]

Agreed.
They give him a 2 year extension and then don't give him another shot......

They did the same thing with Kostka - give him prime minutes, he of course fails, then ship him out

but that's the nature of it. and the nature of it being nearly impossible to slot every single prospect into an NHL role and to be honest, we don't see every practice like the coaches do.

 

[Sonofamitch]

I think it's huge to get guys who are playing their correct side.

Phanuef-XXX
Gunnerson- Granberg
Rielly - Fayne
Gleason

Package up Gardiner with Kadri and the 8th pick and acquire a solid two way defender who plays the right side, and is realitively young.

 

[TankNationTillDeath]

Just curious why no one has Blacker in their leaf pairings?