Speculation: The fans have spoken, and they don't seem to like Jake Gardiner

[Ziggdiezan]

The only thing interesting about this poll is that people actually voted Dermott lol....

 

[ponder]

I have nothing against Gards personally, he seems like a nice guy! However:

• He’s very soft. Bails on plays in awful ways to avoid even light hits
• He’s hugely prone to mistakes, often really bad ones that lead to goals against. He’s the most mistake-prone prominent Leaf I’ve seen since McCabe
• He seems to get in big mental funks where he loses confidence, that last multiple games, and it affects his whole game right down to his puck handling (when he’s in these funks he baubles the puck like crazy)
• On the plus side, he’s a terrific skater and puck mover with a great shot, a very skilled dman in general. But Rielly and Dermott are also great skaters and puck movers, and Zaitsev is also a good puck mover with a very good shot. Gards’ strengths benefit us less than they would most teams, as we have other dmen brining similar strengths, and his weaknesses hurts us more, as our D is a bit sketchy even without Gards, it’s hard to hide/shelter him

He’d be a good player on a team with a group of dmen that was very reliable in their own end, but lacking puck movers/offence. However, the Leafs are the opposite of that, he’s just a poor fit here. We should trade him soon, before we lose him for nothing as a UFA (or worse, re-sign him to a bloated deal).

 

[Advanced stats]

Do we know how many a bunch is?
How many people voted in this poll?

About 1500 voted..
So like 140 voted Dermott lol

 

[ACC1224]

About 1500 voted..
So like 140 voted Dermott lol

He must have a lot of friends.

 

[Ratboy]

Absurd conclusion.

Dermott is the shiny new toy, just like Gardiner once was.

The fact that 9% voted that Dermott is better than Rielly just shows how seriously this "poll" should be taken.

1. Rielly
2. Gardiner
3. Let's see as the season unfolds.

Dermott appears to have an IQ over 80. He'll surpass gardiner on the depth chart this season.

 

[Spirit of 67]

That's fair, TBH I hadn't even thought of it that way, I just assumed that Willy's contract would get done eventually. The way I was looking at it was that Willy's under our control for years to come whereas Jake is UFA after this season so he' the priority in that sense. Unless they've already decided that he won't be resigned (which doesn't make much sense to me).

Maybe "priority" wasn't the best choice of words on my part, perhaps "bigger question" is better. Everyone's talking about Nylander's contract but nobody's talking much about what's going on with Jake and his impending UFA status and to me, that's the bigger question. Why aren't people asking Dubas about that?

That's fair. And agree about not sweating the Nylander deal. It will get done.

I guess you're a big Jake fan. I'm not but don't hate him either. He's good but not perfect.

Anyway, I've always assumed this was his last contract as a Leaf. I'm just not sure what the end game is. If he's re-signed I will assume one of Mo or Derms has to move over.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Yes, and justly so. He was terribly slow, horrible defensively, and most importantly couldn't play the system the Leafs were employing when he was there. He was actually a home town guy who "came home", and I'm sure it was disheartening to get booed off the ice playing for the team you grew up dreaming of playing on.

I guess it was good for him that he went on to become an important player on a 2 time SC winner.
Without getting booed.

 

[slozo]

I have nothing against Gards personally, he seems like a nice guy! However:

• He’s very soft. Bails on plays in awful ways to avoid even light hits
• He’s hugely prone to mistakes, often really bad ones that lead to goals against. He’s the most mistake-prone prominent Leaf I’ve seen since McCabe
• He seems to get in big mental funks where he loses confidence, that last multiple games, and it affects his whole game right down to his puck handling (when he’s in these funks he baubles the puck like crazy)
• On the plus side, he’s a terrific skater and puck mover with a great shot, a very skilled dman in general. But Rielly and Dermott are also great skaters and puck movers, and Zaitsev is also a good puck mover with a very good shot. Gards’ strengths benefit us less than they would most teams, as we have other dmen brining similar strengths, and his weaknesses hurts us more, as our D is a bit sketchy even without Gards, it’s hard to hide/shelter him

He’d be a good player on a team with a group of dmen that was very reliable in their own end, but lacking puck movers/offence. However, the Leafs are the opposite of that, he’s just a poor fit here. We should trade him soon, before we lose him for nothing as a UFA (or worse, re-sign him to a bloated deal).

All around very good points . . . you made me laugh at the second one.
Nobody beats McCabe for all-time skill + bonehead errors.

So do you favour a hockey trade,
where we look to deal Gardiner for a more defensive minded #3 d-man who can be trusted in all situations?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I love Gardiner and I hope he's a Leaf for a long time

 

[Canada4Gold]

Vote who is our best player.

0% of people will say Kadri

Guess the fans hate Kadri

 

[Randy Randerson]

"as much as Morgan Rielly" should be added to the title of this thread

 

[Kamiccolo]

And people wonder why Leafs' fans are not liked by other teams fans...

Show me another 50 point D with the underlying numbers he has playing the competition he does, with the partners he has had? I bet there are a handful and they are ALL rated much higher than he is. He is so under rated based on one poor game and because he makes flashy mistakes from time to time.

 

[al secord]

How many idiotic threads can one person be permitted to start?

 

[Beleafer4]

I have nothing against Gards personally, he seems like a nice guy! However:

• He’s very soft. Bails on plays in awful ways to avoid even light hits
• He’s hugely prone to mistakes, often really bad ones that lead to goals against. He’s the most mistake-prone prominent Leaf I’ve seen since McCabe
• He seems to get in big mental funks where he loses confidence, that last multiple games, and it affects his whole game right down to his puck handling (when he’s in these funks he baubles the puck like crazy)
• On the plus side, he’s a terrific skater and puck mover with a great shot, a very skilled dman in general. But Rielly and Dermott are also great skaters and puck movers, and Zaitsev is also a good puck mover with a very good shot. Gards’ strengths benefit us less than they would most teams, as we have other dmen brining similar strengths, and his weaknesses hurts us more, as our D is a bit sketchy even without Gards, it’s hard to hide/shelter him

He’d be a good player on a team with a group of dmen that was very reliable in their own end, but lacking puck movers/offence. However, the Leafs are the opposite of that, he’s just a poor fit here. We should trade him soon, before we lose him for nothing as a UFA (or worse, re-sign him to a bloated deal).

Dermott has a good shot at being better. But let's be honest here, Zaitsev is NOT a good puck mover.

I like Gards and would keep him if the price is right. Gardiner is our 2nd/3rd best D.

If he's having a bad game, just play Rielly and Dermott. One of the things that annoyed me about game 7 was that the coaches decided to give Gardiner the highest TOI out of any leaf when he was clearly playing like ***.

 

[kb]

Dermott has a good shot at being better. But let's be honest here, Zaitsev is NOT a good puck mover.

I like Gards and would keep him if the price is right. Gardiner is our 2nd/3rd best D.

If he's having a bad game, just play Rielly and Dermott. One of the things that annoyed me about game 7 was that the coaches decided to give Gardiner the highest TOI out of any leaf when he was clearly playing like ***.

Babcock thought bubble: "I'm sure he will play his way out of it"

Wrong call, Mike.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He must have a lot of friends.

That does seem like a sensible explanation. Occam's razor strikes again.

That's fair. And agree about not sweating the Nylander deal. It will get done.

I guess you're a big Jake fan. I'm not but don't hate him either. He's good but not perfect.

Anyway, I've always assumed this was his last contract as a Leaf. I'm just not sure what the end game is. If he's re-signed I will assume one of Mo or Derms has to move over.

I'm a fan, not sure how big a fan I am but that's not relevant here.

Here's the way I see it:

1)
Defence is the one area of concern on our team.

2)
We have two Dmen who are clearly our top two, then there's a gap before we get to #3.

3)
Jake is one of those two.

1+2+3 = Jake being one season away from UFA is cause for concern.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Which fans are these? I think most of us think of him quite highly.

 

[Stephen]

The puck carrying defenseman is usually a position that incurs a lot of "eye test" wrath. Similar to a guy like Bryan McCabe, who handled the puck a ton, plays huge minutes and made high profile mistakes, fans will get annoyed at Gardiner because he's always involved in the play. But to use that quote about Ray Bourque, if he makes 5x mistakes a game but affects 20x positive plays that helps yo win, that's a player you want on your team...

 

[SoVi3t]

Take him off our roster and dont replace him with a similar puck transitioner and our skilled forwards wouldnt have the puck nearly as much as they currently do.

I find it hard to believe we'd have trouble finding another defenceman to blindly fire the puck out of our zone to centre ice, while praying for one of the skilled forwards to make something out of that.

 

[ACC1224]

That does seem like a sensible explanation. Occam's razor strikes again.



.

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

 

[Spirit of 67]

That does seem like a sensible explanation. Occam's razor strikes again.



I'm a fan, not sure how big a fan I am but that's not relevant here.

Here's the way I see it:

1)
Defence is the one area of concern on our team.

2)
We have two Dmen who are clearly our top two, then there's a gap before we get to #3.

3)
Jake is one of those two.

1+2+3 = Jake being one season away from UFA is cause for concern.

Hey, you have a perfectly valid argument.

I'm just as concerned as you are.

 

[Zybalto]

The puck carrying defenseman is usually a position that incurs a lot of "eye test" wrath. Similar to a guy like Bryan McCabe, who handled the puck a ton, plays huge minutes and made high profile mistakes, fans will get annoyed at Gardiner because he's always involved in the play. But to use that quote about Ray Bourque, if he makes 5x mistakes a game but affects 20x positive plays that helps yo win, that's a player you want on your team...

It also looks even worse when your skilled forwards cant convert the chances you set up and your keeper cant make a big save with you on the ice.

Gards PDO was like 93% in the playoffs last year.....less than some keepers save % in the first round.

Analytically, Gards played some of the best hockey of his career in the Bruins series and should have been celebrated but he might have been the unluckiest player instead and wears the goat horns. Looking at the stats, he was one of our top 5 players.

It's a team game and if the guys around you don't produce, you can get burnt.

He could play exactly the same way this year and end up a PPG star that everyone is gushing over....that's hockey.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

Just that what you suggested is IMO the simplest explanation and makes complete sense.

Hey, you have a perfectly valid argument.

I'm just as concerned as you are.

Yeah I just hope it doesn't drag on forever, we don't hear a peep as to what they're thinking and then he ends up walking as a UFA. Unless we win the cup before he walks, then I won't complain.

Seriously though, he's a very good hockey player, I just want him resigned and the sooner the better.

 

[ACC1224]

Just that what you suggested is IMO the simplest explanation and makes complete sense.


.

wouldn't you say that about all of my posts?

 

[Ratboy]

I don't like Jake Gardiner. (as a hockey player).

as a guy I'm sure he's, fine?