Speculation: The fans have spoken, and they don't seem to like Jake Gardiner

[Ratboy]

Jake will never change. He refuses to take a hit; he is scared.

am I the only one who notices the ABYSMAL HOCKEY IQ?!?

 

[Bluelines]

I do not vote on threads on here and most of the people who respond to polls on sites are generally not very educated on what a hockey player looks like. At least on polls on here you get more serious fans but still a smaller percentage.

You base your absolute statement on what supporting data?

 

[Bluelines]

I sum up Jake in a nutshell.

Jake at his very best is better than any d-man on the Leafs, Jake at his very worst is worse than any d-man on the Leafs.

Fans are just tired of the inevitable let down that we all know is coming. He's the wife who tells you she loves you and will be yours for ever and the next day tells you she loves your best friend, you can't trust him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No one is talking a lot about a Gardiner extension, because Nylander is priority right now. They probably won't be able to afford a big contract for Gardiner after this season because Marner and Matthews are so far above Gardiner in terms of priority. You'd be willing to sacrifice good contracts for Marner and Matthews to keep Gardiner????? Never in a million years! Not if, but when Gardiner pulls yet another 2013 GM7, 2018 GM7, or any of his other head scratchers.......

If they want to talk about what kind of money Gardiner's agent (it's almost 95% the agent for any player when it comes to demands) might be looking for, fine.....but when you have Liljgren, Dermott, and Sandin in a couple years coming up, why not move on? It would be great getting assets for him, as opposed to letting him walk, but now is the time to do that. The Leafs are in a bind in a way that trading Gardiner at the deadline is a deal most teams would make to add that one piece, but he could always be flipped for another spot that might need to be filled at that time.

The question I want to see Dubas and/or Babcock asked is How many times are you going to let this player stumble when it counts if you are serious at making more than one Cup run?

The idea of flipping Gardiner at the TDL for "another spot that might need to be filled" is absurd. We need defence, there's no spot that comes even close in terms of importance.

We have guys "in a couple years coming up" - hey that's great but we're in win now mode. Until other's "come up" and/or Dermott establishes himself and/or Zaitsev shows he's someone we can rely on we have two Dmen who are proven reliable ~top 3 Dmen, that's it. Waving goodbye to one of them might mean waving goodbye to our cup chances at the same time until these other maybe's arrive (assuming they ever do).

Sign Gardiner for 5-6 years, then you can always trade him later if it makes sense to do so.

 

[Gary Nylund]

am I the only one who notices the ABYSMAL HOCKEY IQ?!?

Sure, just you. At least I can't remember anyone else ever broaching the subject.

 

[Bluelines]

So if Ekholm or Ellis finished 3rd in a similar Nashville poll.....somehow the fans don't like them? What a strange conclusion @heybuddyhowyadoing

Nashville has 3 d-men that are better than our #1, not really a similar comparison. In that Nashville scenario your basically picking which Ferrari finishes 3rd, in ours you picking which Ferrari finishes first and which Hyundai finishes 3rd.

 

[ACC1224]

The idea of flipping Gardiner at the TDL for "another spot that might need to be filled" is absurd. We need defence, there's no spot that comes even close in terms of importance.

We have guys "in a couple years coming up" - hey that's great but we're in win now mode. Until other's "come up" and/or Dermott establishes himself and/or Zaitsev shows he's someone we can rely on we have two Dmen who are proven reliable ~top 3 Dmen, that's it. Waving goodbye to one of them might mean waving goodbye to our cup chances at the same time until these other maybe's arrive (assuming they ever do).

Sign Gardiner for 5-6 years, then you can always trade him later if it makes sense to do so.

What if he wants 7 or 8 years?
I'm with you, it's strange we haven't heard that they are even speaking.

 

[Ratboy]

Sure, just you. At least I can't remember anyone else ever broaching the subject.

This is something that cannot be overstated. Stupid players f*** up. Cant have that.

I'd rather have a less skilled player with brains than Gardiner.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What if he wants 7 or 8 years?
I'm with you, it's strange we haven't heard that they are even speaking.

If he wants 7-8 years ... I dunno, try to talk him down to 6 I guess.

Yeah it is strange, we're so light on Dmen so to me, he's such an important piece.

 

[diceman934]

You base your absolute statement on what supporting data?

Experience on reading social media polls. Most people respond with lack of knowledge as the results speak for them selves. On here look at our prospect ranking and as an example Finn, Biggs, Percy and recently Nielsen who was hyped up and has skating issues. People generally just vote without any actual knowledge. Then the opposite with most believing that Marner was to small and weak to be a solid NHL player and wanting a big center who himself has skating issues.

 

[mulefarm]

Babcock vote
Gardiner 22:33
Rielly 21:36
Dermott 16:00

 

[ACC1224]

Has a poll ever been done to see how this Board ranks the defensemen?

I'd assume it would be Rielly, Gardiner as 1,2.

 

[Magic Man]

am I the only one who notices the ABYSMAL HOCKEY IQ?!?

Not a bad skater though.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Babcock vote
Gardiner 22:33
Rielly 21:36
Dermott 16:00

Sure worked out great didn't it?

 

[egd27]

The interpretation has no room for flexibility.

Dermott has only played a shortened season for TOR, yet he gets more votes?

The fans are turning on Jake.

Absurd conclusion.

Dermott is the shiny new toy, just like Gardiner once was.

The fact that 9% voted that Dermott is better than Rielly just shows how seriously this "poll" should be taken.

1. Rielly
2. Gardiner
3. Let's see as the season unfolds.

 

[Advanced stats]

Nashville has 3 d-men that are better than our #1, not really a similar comparison. In that Nashville scenario your basically picking which Ferrari finishes 3rd, in ours you picking which Ferrari finishes first and which Hyundai finishes 3rd.

You could do it with any team and get the same conclusion.

Just because he's the 3rd rated defenseman on said team, doesn't mean the fans are turning on anyone

 

[Cams]

The idea of flipping Gardiner at the TDL for "another spot that might need to be filled" is absurd. We need defence, there's no spot that comes even close in terms of importance.

We have guys "in a couple years coming up" - hey that's great but we're in win now mode. Until other's "come up" and/or Dermott establishes himself and/or Zaitsev shows he's someone we can rely on we have two Dmen who are proven reliable ~top 3 Dmen, that's it. Waving goodbye to one of them might mean waving goodbye to our cup chances at the same time until these other maybe's arrive (assuming they ever do).

Sign Gardiner for 5-6 years, then you can always trade him later if it makes sense to do so.

At what value....? You know he's going to be asking for 6+/yr...... What about Marner? Matthews?

Also, we are not necessarily in "win now mode". It's a team that is very good and the window is wide open. Why do they have to "win now" and not build up a playoff run of more than 1 round for a season or 2 and "win then"? This isn't a team with aging veterans at the end of their careers.

 

[Bluelines]

You could do it with any team and get the same conclusion.

Just because he's the 3rd rated defenseman on said team, doesn't mean the fans are turning on anyone

Yeah to say they are turning on him is a stretch but it's interesting that the new shiny toy is ranked higher by fans than our top scoring d-man.

 

[Gary Nylund]

At what value....? You know he's going to be asking for 6+/yr...... What about Marner? Matthews?

Also, we are not necessarily in "win now mode". It's a team that is very good and the window is wide open. Why do they have to "win now" and not build up a playoff run of more than 1 round for a season or 2 and "win then"? This isn't a team with aging veterans at the end of their careers.

The numbers have been crunched and it seems clear that we have the cap space to sign Jake as well as the big three.

At what value is a fair question, what's strange is that everyone's focusing on the big 3 while completely ignoring that one of our clear top 2 Dmen (the position which is our biggest question mark) is one year from UFA status. The GM should be getting peppered with questions about Gardiner but instead, it's as if it was a non-issue.

We're absolutely in win now mode and we should be in win now mode for the next decade or so.

 

[Cams]

The numbers have been crunched and it seems clear that we have the cap space to sign Jake as well as the big three.

At what value is a fair question, what's strange is that everyone's focusing on the big 3 while completely ignoring that one of our clear top 2 Dmen (the position which is our biggest question mark) is one year from UFA status. The GM should be getting peppered with questions about Gardiner but instead, it's as if it was a non-issue.

We're absolutely in win now mode and we should be in win now mode for the next decade or so.

Does that leave any space for trades at a deadline/FA signings?

It's not like Gardiner is an Ekman-Larsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo. He is offensive Dman (but is he aside from last season)? Defensively he is not that good. Going to try to win the Cup winning 7-5 each game?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Does that leave any space for trades at a deadline/FA signings?

It's not like Gardiner is an Ekman-Larsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo. He is offensive Dman (but is he aside from last season)? Defensively he is not that good. Going to try to win the Cup winning 7-5 each game?

I'm pretty sure that's been shown to be false so I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The 'conclusion' is totally unrelated to the topic of the poll.

If, a couple of years ago, there had been a poll on 'the best shot', I would have voted for Kessel without hesitation. Which does not mean that I like him, or that I think he's a good player. On the same poll Komarov would have placed pretty low, but that would not be an indication that fans 'had turned on him'.

 

[dubplatepressure]

The 'conclusion' is totally unrelated to the topic of the poll.

If, a couple of years ago, there had been a poll on 'the best shot', I would have voted for Kessel without hesitation. Which does not mean that I like him, or that I think he's a good player. On the same poll Komarov would have placed pretty low, but that would not be an indication that fans 'had turned on him'.

This. A poll on the best defenseman is not indicative of who fans like least.

 

[Advanced stats]

Yeah to say they are turning on him is a stretch but it's interesting that the new shiny toy is ranked higher by fans than our top scoring d-man.

It's concerning and shows how out of touch a bunch of "fans" are

 

[ACC1224]

It's concerning and shows how out of touch a bunch of "fans" are

Do we know how many a bunch is?
How many people voted in this poll?