The Everything Rebuilding/Development Thread: Leafs Clinch Pre-Lotto 4th

[Divine]

You say you never expected 130 points from him but in the same sentence say you thought that he would put up the same numbers. Which is it?

"A comprehensive study done by Behind the Net which found that the expected production of a player going from OHL to the AHL is 0.45 of his ppg." Seems like he has at least kept up with the statistical norm while honing other parts of his game. Teams that would take him straight from junior and put him against grown men are stupid and foolhardy with their prospects. People have to grow and learn no matter what kind of unreal expectations are put on a player by the public/media/team. Do you see the Wings taking kids from junior and throwing them to the wolves and saying sink or swim, its up to you? Teams that rush get their just due, Teams that let a player progress naturally usually end up winning more then those who rush to save management jobs

You do realize that the level of talent on a AHL roster makes it harder to continue to put up 130 point seasons. Like I said the ones that do are the exception rather then the rule. Its not the OHL where some teams you play are weaker then others and make it easy to run up the score and pad your stats. AHL guys are playing for their current contract and their next one. Games don't get mailed in as much with bbig dollars on the line. Hence why it is harder to put up 130 point seasons unless you are an elite talent.

Sigh... Point per game is not 130 points. Secondly, that's the average OHLer, right? Not elite OHLers who put up 130 points in junior... Imagine Kane going to the AHL after junior and putting up .8PPG, you wouldn't consider that disappointing?

 

[Community]

Sigh... Point per game is not 130 points. Secondly, that's the average OHLer, right? Not elite OHLers who put up 130 points in junior... Imagine Kane going to the AHL after junior and putting up .8PPG, you wouldn't consider that disappointing?

Kane put up 145pts in 58gp in his pre-draft year... That's a bit different than Brown putting up 128 in 82 in his draft+2 year. Kane had a 2.5ppg whereas Brown had a 1.5ppg... That's a bit of a difference wouldn't you say?

Nylander is putting up a 0.77PPG and I think it's certainly possible he could put up Kane-like numbers during his prime (not likely, but possible).


Anyways, I'm done arguing this... I have to study for Finals and I'm not going to change my stance that going from 130pts in junior to .8ppg is a good transition to pro hockey and a solid year of development.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Kane put up 145pts in 58gp in his pre-draft year... That's a bit different than Brown putting up 128 in 82 in his draft+2 year. Kane had a 2.5ppg whereas Brown had a 1.5ppg... That's a bit of a difference wouldn't you say?

Nylander is putting up a 0.77PPG and I think it's certainly possible he could put up Kane-like numbers during his prime (not likely, but possible).


Anyways, I'm done arguing this... I have to study for Finals and I'm not going to change my stance that going from 130pts in junior to .8ppg is a good transition to pro hockey and a solid year of development.

good luck with your finals i know you'll do great!

 

[Divine]

Kane put up 145pts in 58gp in his pre-draft year... That's a bit different than Brown putting up 128 in 82 in his draft+2 year. Kane had a 2.5ppg whereas Brown had a 1.5ppg... That's a bit of a difference wouldn't you say?

Nylander is putting up a 0.77PPG and I think it's certainly possible he could put up Kane-like numbers during his prime (not likely, but possible).


Anyways, I'm done arguing this... I have to study for Finals and I'm not going to change my stance that going from 130pts in junior to .8ppg is a good transition to pro hockey and a solid year of development.

There isn't 82 games in the OHL regular season. Brown did 128 in 68, which is extremely good. Yeah, Kane may have done more, but it's hard thinking of players off the top of my head that score in that range because it's so scarce (which is why I don't think it's any coincidence, McDavid's teammates have done it 2 years in a row). Also, yeah Kane did it younger, but I'm talking about the following year after a player does that. So if at 18 Kane went to the AHL and was less than a PPG, I think it'd be disappointing.

As a side note, are Marner and Domi both injured for London? I saw that on the main boards. If that's true, it's going to be a quick series...

 

[Community]

There isn't 82 games in the OHL regular season. Brown did 128 in 68, which is extremely good. Yeah, Kane may have done more, but it's hard thinking of players off the top of my head that score in that range because it's so scarce. Also, yeah Kane did it younger, but I'm talking about the following year after a player does that. So if at 18 Kane went to the AHL and was less than a PPG, I think it'd be disappointing.

As a side note, are Marner and Domi both injured for London? I saw that on the main boards. If that's true, it's going to be a quick series...

Good catch... My bad it slipped my mind for a bit, that changes the ppg for him and my numbers a bit... Still a difference between his and Kane's season, but I guess they were closer than I thought.

Anyways, now I'm really gone :p

P.S. Thanks Daisy

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Sigh... Point per game is not 130 points. Secondly, that's the average OHLer, right? Not elite OHLers who put up 130 points in junior... Imagine Kane going to the AHL after junior and putting up .8PPG, you wouldn't consider that disappointing?

Not at all. He probably is rounding out other facets of his game and thats never a bad thing. Nyquivst is a great example of this. Thats ok keep focusing on little details in a persons posts and not the issue at hand.

There is a reason the Wings do not promote youth until they truly are ready, So many fans and pundits all talk or slag a player for having only 1 dimension...but yet when a team wants to make sure they are multi dimensional and as a result more valuable on and off the ice people call that disappointing. Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it now rather then waiting and savoring a much better end product.

 

[TheCLAM]

Brown is having a great year, but his points were inflated last season due to playing with McDavid. Would you agree with that statement? That's my only argument - where did I say Brown was having a bad year? My argument is that if Brown put up 128 points last season, on a team without McDavid - he most likely would have greater offensive numbers in the AHL this year. It's speculation, you could debate it all you want - but most players (even elite NHLers) don't put up 128 in junior...

There's no yes or no to this answer because
1) Brown did play on a different line than McDavid
2) Brown scored 128 points
3) We cant project for McDavid magically disappearing from the team

I don't understand how his number could get much better at this point? He's top 10 in scoring putting up more points than high first round picks.

I think there's a lack of knowledge of that "elite" players don't put up big time points. Brown scored 128 points in his last season of junior. A typical "elite" player will score 100 points and transition to junior as an 18 year old. This argument is Swiss cheese as its a subjective basis making projections based on little facts

 

[TheCLAM]

Sigh... Point per game is not 130 points. Secondly, that's the average OHLer, right? Not elite OHLers who put up 130 points in junior... Imagine Kane going to the AHL after junior and putting up .8PPG, you wouldn't consider that disappointing?

That would never happen because first overall picks virtually never spend time in the AHL. It's a meaningless argument with no bearing on anything.

 

[p.l.f.]

It's hard to get out of tank mode
It was more fun watching them lose

 

[ConnorTO]

It's hard to get out of tank mode
It was more fun watching them lose

if u enjoy watching ur team lose then ur not much of a fan tbh

 

[p.l.f.]

if u enjoy watching ur team lose then ur not much of a fan tbh

Of this season's team that is so true

 

[Teeder9]

if u enjoy watching ur team lose then ur not much of a fan tbh

Bullocks. Every single person here wants the Leafs to win the cup, or even make the playoffs. But if this team isn't making them, then being a fan has nothing to do with hoping they pick 4th rather than 14th. Being lots stronger tomorrow is better than being a bit stronger today

 

[Daisy Jane]

Bullocks. Every single person here wants the Leafs to win the cup, or even make the playoffs. But if this team isn't making them, then being a fan has nothing to do with hoping they pick 4th rather than 14th. Being lots stronger tomorrow is better than being a bit stronger today

exactly

 

[Shwaguy*]

Sometimes finishing 14th is better for your future than finishing 4th though.

Like next year. Edmonton would be better off finishing 14th for example.

 

[Shwaguy*]

But seriously 5 goals if we don't get McDavid I'm gonna ****ing cry, the Raptors already missed out on Wiggins I can't handle missing out on McDavid too.

 

[shelf]

2013-2014 Pts/game

Brown- 1.88
McDavid- 1.77

McDavid probably benefited more playing with Brown than Brown did playing with McDavid.

 

[Teeder9]

Sometimes finishing 14th is better for your future than finishing 4th though.

Like next year. Edmonton would be better off finishing 14th for example.

Columbus as well. We aren't either though. We have serious deficiencies and they aren't getting fixed by picking 14th, as we know from history

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Sometimes finishing 14th is better for your future than finishing 4th though.

Like next year. Edmonton would be better off finishing 14th for example.

How many 1st overalls and top 5 picks do they need before they start to even contend for a playoff spot? lol

Finishing 14th over 4th NEVER helps a rebuilding team. It has been part of what killed us over the years. Just good enough to not get anyone who will make an immediate and more importantly a long term gamechanging impact. Look at who we have drafted with our top 10 picks alone...Kadri,Mo and Nylander. Its only natural that fans want one of those good top 5 picks. If you are gonna suffer there should be something that makes it all worth it in the end. Like after we win a cup all of Leafs Nation getting knockdown drag out drunk and running thru the streets like lunatics calling and texting every bloody habs fan we know to say HAH...

 

[Shwaguy*]

How many 1st overalls and top 5 picks do they need before they start to even contend for a playoff spot? lol

Finishing 14th over 4th NEVER helps a rebuilding team. It has been part of what killed us over the years. Just good enough to not get anyone who will make an immediate and more importantly a long term gamechanging impact. Look at who we have drafted with our top 10 picks alone...Kadri,Mo and Nylander. Its only natural that fans want one of those good top 5 picks. If you are gonna suffer there should be something that makes it all worth it in the end. Like after we win a cup all of Leafs Nation getting knockdown drag out drunk and running thru the streets like lunatics calling and texting every bloody habs fan we know to say HAH...

You say that, but what finishing 14th means, can be a lot better, it isn't for us. But you can bet it is for Columbus

 

[shelf]

Finishing 14th wont get you the better player in the draft but it means that you have better players already on your team.

If Florida had finished bottom 5 this year they would get a great player in the draft, but it would mean that the young guys they do have on their team wouldnt be as good as they are. It would mean Huberdeau didnt improve. Bjugstad regressed. Ekblad not having an awesome rookie season. Pirri not scoring 20 goals in 25 games or whatever he did.

 

[waingr0]

It's hard to get out of tank mode
It was more fun watching them lose

It was certainly easier to cheer for them to lose.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Finishing 14th wont get you the better player in the draft but it means that you have better players already on your team.

If Florida had finished bottom 5 this year they would get a great player in the draft, but it would mean that the young guys they do have on their team wouldnt be as good as they are. It would mean Huberdeau didnt improve. Bjugstad regressed. Ekblad not having an awesome rookie season. Pirri not scoring 20 goals in 25 games or whatever he did.

doesn't mean you have higher ceiling guys on your team though. If you have a bunch of players already in/past their prime with only 1 or 2 guys with a little potential then you could get in that just miss the playoffs cycle for a while.

 

[The Legend]

You say that, but what finishing 14th means, can be a lot better, it isn't for us. But you can bet it is for Columbus

Sorry - why in the world would a team rather finish 14th last than 4th last?

 

[Nithoniniel]

How many 1st overalls and top 5 picks do they need before they start to even contend for a playoff spot? lol

Finishing 14th over 4th NEVER helps a rebuilding team. It has been part of what killed us over the years. Just good enough to not get anyone who will make an immediate and more importantly a long term gamechanging impact. Look at who we have drafted with our top 10 picks alone...Kadri,Mo and Nylander. Its only natural that fans want one of those good top 5 picks. If you are gonna suffer there should be something that makes it all worth it in the end. Like after we win a cup all of Leafs Nation getting knockdown drag out drunk and running thru the streets like lunatics calling and texting every bloody habs fan we know to say HAH...

Sorry - why in the world would a team rather finish 14th last than 4th last?

Isn't this obvious? If you have a team full of young talent on the tail end of a rebuild, you'd rather finish 14th.

Why? Because it directly pertains to the development of your young players. In this case they win because these guys are playing good, and they develop with the success. You also avoid putting your young team through too much failure and the losing culture that is so prominent in Edmonton for example. The same team that finish 4th last has just gone through a whole year of disappointing development for the same young players.

It's quite different with a team like Toronto, because it's not a team with many players that are part of the future. But a team that is the future is one you want to have as much success as possible, even if it means a worse draft pick.

 

[Mystifo]

Bullocks. Every single person here wants the Leafs to win the cup, or even make the playoffs. But if this team isn't making them, then being a fan has nothing to do with hoping they pick 4th rather than 14th. Being lots stronger tomorrow is better than being a bit stronger today

I only wanted them to lose if it benefited them. Today's game has no effect on the standings in terms of us getting a better pick so I am hoping for a victory and a good one at that. I know if we go out there and completely dominate the Hab's there will be the obligatory "Where was that for x amount of months." But today's I finally get to be a fan again and cheer for a victory.


This season has been a complete roller coaster and quite frankly after it all I want is to go out on a good note. It's like playing a horrid round of golf where nothing is going your way and then on the 18th hole you sink that 30 footer and you just feel that much better about yourself. You still know you need to hit the range and start working on your control/shooting but it just makes the pain less painful. A win tomorrow will just offer some easy relief for myself it does not mean I think this team is good enough.