The dysfunctional Leafs thread

Kyle Doobas*

Guest
I couldn't really fit the beginning in (TinyPic only lets you upload animations that are less than 5MB :laugh:), but Phaneuf seemed to be yapping something in Phil's direction, and as you can see, Phil tells him to "Shut [his] ****ing mouth".

Probably not as big a deal as it seems, but it goes to show you how tense things are getting.
 

pooleboy

Registered User
Dec 23, 2009
6,579
16
Ontario
I was going to make a thread about this rant but i decided not too, instead ill post it in this thread :)

First:
- dont sign players to big ticket deals without them proving they can win, making the playoffs doesn't mean u can win, it means u can be a top 16 team in a 30 team league, so players like Kessel who got 8*8 and Phaneuf who got 7*7 Clarkson to a lesser extent, u want the big ticket contract u need to prove u can win not just score a PPG and then go golfing in april
- BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT HOLY ****
i shouldn't need to expand on this very much but at last years TDL and this years Nonis has shown his incompetence to trade away players we dont need and are just taking spots of players that actually could use the playoff experience (Bozak although we signed him, Mcarthur) could have gottena couple of assets instead of losing them for nothing and same with Bolland, Raymond, Kulemin this season all of which could have gottena 2nd rounder. We see other franchises trade away players before UFA who aren't apart of their core aka Chicago trading Bolland but Leafs management just thinks "playoffs screw Long-term success" (by no means am i saying a 2nd rounder is going to make an impact in the NHL but thats just another asset we could use in a trade, aka we just got our #1 goalie for a 2nd so they are valuable).
- Not allowing our young players to play and letting older players just walk back into the lineup,
when i say this i mean D'amigo, Leivo who looked really good are both back with the marlies when they both should be in the NHL and gaining experience. We could have also trade Kulemin---> D'amigo and Raymond---> leivo but na, lets keep assets were going to lose for nothing because "der der der playoffs"

I realize that this team was suppose to grow together but after 18 wheeler, game 7 and this stretch its safe to say major changes need to happen for us to see any success, and this goes back to #2 in my list. BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT.. the only example i can give where teams got hand-me-downs and won with them is Boston and that was with Chara and Savard who were UFA's not even trade bait. Every other team has built their core through the draft and thats where we need to start.

I would do anything to get Edmontons pick and grab Ekblad. phaneuf + our 1st (prolly top 10) OR Gautheir imo should get it done.

Why Edmonton does it- want to win now, their tired of waiting for prospects to learn, Phaneuf although only a small amount has playoff experience and can be a top 2 dman for a team, he is also from edmonton and is signed long-term so edmonton can keep him their for a long time. If they draft their 2nd overall pick, that player will take some time, growing pains and imo leafs could do a mini re-tool in 1 year and then be fine.

Why leafs do it- we need a franchise defenceman (although MoRiles is an absolute stud, we need a horse back their not a puck rusher, both would compliment each other very very nicely) and is right handed. Leafs would send him back to jr for a year and bring him up the year after making our D absolutly terrible giving prospects like Percy, Finn and Granberg a chance to play in the NHL and prove themselves.

Trade Kessel and Lupul
- reasons why---> look at boston, they have no offensive first forward, there all defensivly responsible and i was listening to the st.louis GM and he said "scorers are irrelevant in playoffs" so having amazing 2 way guys would be important for this organization, imo you keep kessel for the season but Lupul you could trade for a pick or prospect and allow that prospect to develop in the minors.
- kessel for a package of 2 prospects + a pick (my example i used last year was coyle + Dumba + 1st) but imo should keep him so leafs could possibly move up and grab mcdavid. a team trading away a ppg star + something for the #1 pick isn't to far-fetched, and even the slightest opptomistic leaf fan would say that that would be a fair deal.

IMO leafs just need a culture change, id look to trade all the players except for Rielly, Bernier and JVR tbh, Gardiner could be had at the right price but other than that we need to re-tool and finally building through the draft is how u make a successful franchise. Show me one franchise who has had prolonged success (winning atleast 1 cup) thats core was brought in through trades. Kessel is also signed long-term so FOR EXAMPLE a team like NYI gets that pick and are having struggles bringing in players Kessel could help attract them/ he is there for a while and they know they aren't going to lose him anytime soon.

3 successful chockes and something needs to be changed up, this core is flawed and building through the draft is the only way to bring in key players, if these players were amazing and could lead teams to the SCF or to a cup Calgary, Boston, Anaheim wouldn't have traded them for peanuts (well not in bostons case)
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,185
54,416
The whole Leafs organization is dysfunctional and needs a Red Wedding of an offseason.

Outside of Rielly and Kadri the past few years, the Leafs scouting staff has been an abysmal failure. Dave Morrison can't find a prospect worth a damn who will do much more than play on a third defensive pair or a third or fourth line. Meanwhile, we have a great European scout who is completely under utilized and we watch guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Silfverberg, Raffl, Rakell, Jarnkrok, Vatanen emerge year after year while we wait for Kenny Ryan and Tyler Biggs to morph into Milan Lucic and a bunch of useless high school Minnesotans in high school.

David Clarkson. Gross incompetence.

Lupul and Phaneuf locked up to Vernon Wells contracts. Blue Jays mediocrity guaranteed for another decade.

Carlyle, old school must be a euphemism for surly, and too stupid to adapt to new situations.

Reimer, a microcosm of all that is wrong with this organization's loser mentality. Barely accomplishes anything in the NHL and is a fan favorite. Mentally weak under pressure.

Phaneuf, basically a meathead and a complete disgrace to the captaincy and a bonehead of a player on the ice. I actually can't see much evidence of any leadership coming from Phaneuf. He often does the wrong thing off the ice and isn't even a stabilizing factor on it.

Kessel, he's an up and down scorer and we will always live and die and live and die by his hot streaks. Falls into that Edmonton Oilers brand of run and gun hockey, and when push comes to shove, teams will smother him with bigger, tougher two way forwards in head to head matchups.

Nonis, he's built a young team and hasn't supplied enough leadership in that room. Bolland and Clarkson were like a drop into an ocean of immaturity. Why aren't we ever in on guys like Morrow, Jagr, Whitney who can do some babysitting on the lower lines?

Franson and Kadri. Really sick of players who think they've made it only to demand big money and then regress. I'm actually completely sick of players who come up and have success and fall flat on their faces. Happened with Alex Steen too. What is wrong with Toronto?

So many dysfunctional things about Toronto, there's not enough time.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,010
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Leafs Home Board
Leafs are the first team in NHL history trying to win by creating a team from the Wingers In through poor defense going against the grain of everything logical and previously proven otherwise for the formula of success.

You wouldn't deploy this strategy even in a non Cap World and its exponentially worse when spending is controlled.

Talk about having your priorities backasswards.
 
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Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,185
54,416
I too worry that the 8 million dollar attitude might get to Kessel's head, I don't like the idea of him being a self righteous ***** on the ice.


I don't like how we are only playing one kid, Rielly. There's so much untapped AHL talent. Scratch Clarkson and win.

Actually, I like what Kessel's doing there. Someone needs to speak up.

I feel like we're going to burn out Rielly. Too bad we didn't get a chance to see Percy or Brennan for a cup of coffee.
 

Rare Jewel

Patience
Jan 11, 2007
19,300
3,524
Leaf Land
rbmnoh.jpg

I got "Try and make a pass"
 

Wami

Chicken Lyfe'
Mar 8, 2013
1,106
0
Actually, I like what Kessel's doing there. Someone needs to speak up.

I feel like we're going to burn out Rielly. Too bad we didn't get a chance to see Percy or Brennan for a cup of coffee.

Did you see the other night where he flipped out on JVR for not passing him the puck? Something like "Pass the ****ing puck James", slammed the door and looked like a prima donna.
 

Born in 1909

Hockey Royalty
Nov 20, 2007
6,662
907
Montreal
Hab fan here...

Just saying (as an observer) that The Leafs have some excellent things going for them (like speed and scoring) and that Toronto does, in fact, have one of the best teams in Canada in 2014.

All the Canadian teams are struggling... its no secret.

Yes, Montreal will make the PO this year, but we all know they don't have any real chance of going all the way.

The untimely slump Leaf slump was mostly bad luck at a very critical time in the season.

Passionate Canadian hockey fans (like in Toronto) deserve better, for sure.

Peace.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,010
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Leafs Home Board
Did you see the other night where he flipped out on JVR for not passing him the puck? Something like "Pass the ****ing puck James", slammed the door and looked like a prima donna.

Kessel would like to get to 40 goals this year.
 

achtungbaby

Registered User
Oct 31, 2006
4,792
25
Did you see the other night where he flipped out on JVR for not passing him the puck? Something like "Pass the ****ing puck James", slammed the door and looked like a prima donna.

I saw that. On one hand, it's nice to see some passion from him. On the other, it's kind of douchy to JVR.
 

DaveT83*

Guest
The First Step:
STOP EMBRACING EXCUSES AND START EMBRACING SOLUTIONS.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,185
54,416
The fact that Kessel is flipping out is actually a great thing. Selfishness/frustration/emotion is a lot better than the standard "awww yeah, we have confidence in this group and we have to execute our game plan and come out ready to play" robotic garbage. He wants the puck on his stick and is as pissed off as we are watching this team.
 

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
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Undisclosed research facility
The fact that Kessel is flipping out is actually a great thing. Selfishness/frustration/emotion is a lot better than the standard "awww yeah, we have confidence in this group and we have to execute our game plan and come out ready to play" robotic garbage. He wants the puck on his stick and is as pissed off as we are watching this team.

I agree. People want the players to show heart and passion, and when they do, they get hated on for "attitude".
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,247
9,259
Leafs are the first team in NHL history trying to win by creating a team from the Wingers In through poor defense going against the grain of everything logical and previously proven otherwise for the formula of success.

You wouldn't deploy this strategy even in a non Cap World and its exponentially worse when spending is controlled.

Talk about having your priorities backasswards.

the first team in history? Seriously, Mess? the first? Well then, talk about being rebels. (sigh) In regards to the wingers in, it was to build and support what was already here in place. Ironically enough - we had centres in place. Now, if you are saying - and I don't want to put words in your mouth - Kessel shouldn't have been traded for,then that's what you should say.

It's going to boil down to that trade over and over and over again - and it doesn't matter if you like it/didn't like it/support it - at the end of the day that trade, even with gamebreaker Kessel here has severely damaged the team. Which is why it pisses me off that A: Burke when he got to Calgary he said wants the team to build through the draft and that not one media member said 'hold the phone, dude, you didn't say that in Toronto." and that B: people still want him here.

Let's call some spades, spades here.

*Cliff got rid of Steen [though Steen wasn't playing 'wellish' here]

*Burke trades 3 high round picks -the same thing we've lambasted JFJ and Quinn for, for Kessel - when the entire city, media and the like were like 'you know - we're good, we're okay, let's rebuild through the draft etc."

*Burke and Nonis + the GM core traded and selected the core we've got together right now, and put together our very weak farm system (with some bright spots - thank you defensive prospects) etc. At the end of the day - it's sort of like we're back where we started before you have to accept to rebuild... with 1/2 the rebuild in place.

I will give Nonis credit. he did try to get some big name free agents here [but RS wanted to go back to Pittsburgh, Ferrance went to Edmonton, and I can't remember who else was there available]. But he loses a lot for not making an attempt. But that's where some of his moves comes into play. Why a 4th rounder for Ryan o Byrne last year and he didn't make a difference? [that could have been parlayed into maybe getting Mike Weaver this year], and so on and so forth. But as I've said - we're hampered by the fact that

A: we're up by the cap
B: almost all players have 5++ year deals
C: our system compared to most sucks and
D: Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri will have to be included in any deal to make things work.


Stephen wins for making Red Wedding into an adjective though.


Highlander23 - just because you haven't heard it reported - doesn't mean the players haven't had one. I remember in December when they were freefalling and I was clamouring why we haven't heard anything because you always hear about it, and it was only watching the raptors highlight pack (and Bernier was in the crowd) that the Raptors guys were like "Yeah, the leafs had a players only meeting yesterday, to figure out what to do with their losing sump." It's the same how Nonis ripped the team a new one after the Carolina game, but no one heard about it until Chris Simpson wrote about it three weeks later after the fact.

and I'm sorry, I am agreeing with Bernier here. If you actually need to have a players meeting at this point of the season, knowing what's going on and seeing what needs to be done, then there are a lot. of. problems and having a meeting aren't going to address them.

I've been saying it for two years now - the Leafs are probably not wanting to do an entire blow up right now - because in three-four years they are turning 100. And they want the All Star Game, the Outdoor Game, the whatever, and wow wouldn't that just put the damper on things if the team was at the bottom of the league [still].

However - I personally feel if it's done now - the leafs should be very competitive in time for the 100th anniversary. It does start with having an aggressive GM who does have the patience, and does have exceptionally good drafting know-how. If Hextall etc aren't the targets, I'd be looking at any farm system that is deep and exceptional, and try to get THAT GM (and this is after I've fired 98 percent of the scouting system here - the European scout we have, Thommie Bergmann or whatever? he can stay).

then I'd look at this team, and like Stephen said - start Red Wedding-ing them.

Goaltending:

Bernier In
Reimer Out

Bring up MacIntyre, see what he can do.
this summer - draft some goaltending.

Defense
Rielly-stays

Gardiner-stays [re-sign him to a bridge contract of 3 years. I guess you can JVR his contract, 3 years, that still gives us RFA rights, if he really impresses, JVR him again for 5 years at a higher bump]

Gleason - move him if we can, but with a NTC and the cap hit it might be difficult.

Franson: out (I don't even want to hear anything about upside, right-hand side, anything. out. out out, out out).

If the rumours that teams still wanted Phaneuf even with that contract extension was true - then I'd be aggressively trying to trade him between the moment the Leafs are officially eliminated from the playoffs and July 1st 11:59am. It's not a "lol, no that won't work." it's - if we can get a reasonable package (including a pick or two), then we do it. the Leafs (well all teams but the Leafs) need to stop falling in love with players, and they have to stop with the whole "but if we let him go, what do we replace him with," as a reason to justify keeping ANYONE.

Gunnarson: can stay. moderate cap hit, and his contract is only 2 years long and is tradeable.

Bring in: Percy, MacWilliam, Granberg. Play the kids, and try to get some insulation for them (as in a Robidas, or whatever). create and draft up the pairs that you think that will work (ie: an offensive/defensive set up with everyone or set up Rielly/Gardiner together and let everyone slot in wherever). it might be scary, but if it develops from now and they grow together as a unit especially with the right coach in place - there you go.

Forwards
JVR: can stay

Kessel: is tricky. I'd keep him. Every team has a floater - I think it determines if the new coach will be like "screw you, you're benched even if it costs me a goal and/or a game to get my message through." vs. meh. do your thing, score 30+ goals. (also - he has a ntc right now, it's limited. I don't know how short his list is now, and I know next year when he kicks in at 8x8, his list IS at 8).

Bozak: a tradeable contract - but that line can stay - they just have to stop freaking be lazy.


Lupul: trade
Kadri: I've said this so many times, just find a post in a Kadri/Jake thread and read why - but if you can get a good deal, I'd trade him. the end, and sign a 2 way defensive minded player.

Kulemin: i have no idea. the fact that he can now play center is helpful. i think it depends on his contract demands


Raymond: is gone, gone gone. gone gone gone gone gone gone gone. and gone.
Bolland: if he's serious with his contract demands and won't budge, I will learn how to drive, and then take him to the airport. the dude flat out said he has issues turning left. I'm not signing him for 5+ years at 5+ million for someone who is having issues turning left.

Clarkson: again - like I said - with him, I would have a significant come to Jesus moment with him and ask him exactly, specifically what he wants. if he wants to be a Leaf, then whatever, and if not - retain 2.5-3 million of his contract and trade him to where he makes sense/fits.

Bodie stays, bring up D'Amigo, and craft your third line with them + again another cheap forward signing.


Orr and McLaren: get out.
McClement, have no idea at this point. i don't know his contract demands.

again - craft a fourth line of players in the system + cheap UFA signings.

next year will be a struggle - but again with the right coach and a proper system that makes sense [ie: not being outshot to death] it might not be so oogly. rinse and repeat.
 

dubey

$$$$$$$*NICE*$$$$$$$ 69 in 79 $$$$$$$*NICE*$$$$$$$
Oct 22, 2006
25,954
4,382
In your head
The whole Leafs organization is dysfunctional and needs a Red Wedding of an offseason.

Outside of Rielly and Kadri the past few years, the Leafs scouting staff has been an abysmal failure. Dave Morrison can't find a prospect worth a damn who will do much more than play on a third defensive pair or a third or fourth line. Meanwhile, we have a great European scout who is completely under utilized and we watch guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Silfverberg, Raffl, Rakell, Jarnkrok, Vatanen emerge year after year while we wait for Kenny Ryan and Tyler Biggs to morph into Milan Lucic and a bunch of useless high school Minnesotans in high school.

David Clarkson. Gross incompetence.

Lupul and Phaneuf locked up to Vernon Wells contracts. Blue Jays mediocrity guaranteed for another decade.

Carlyle, old school must be a euphemism for surly, and too stupid to adapt to new situations.

Reimer, a microcosm of all that is wrong with this organization's loser mentality. Barely accomplishes anything in the NHL and is a fan favorite. Mentally weak under pressure.

Phaneuf, basically a meathead and a complete disgrace to the captaincy and a bonehead of a player on the ice. I actually can't see much evidence of any leadership coming from Phaneuf. He often does the wrong thing off the ice and isn't even a stabilizing factor on it.

Kessel, he's an up and down scorer and we will always live and die and live and die by his hot streaks. Falls into that Edmonton Oilers brand of run and gun hockey, and when push comes to shove, teams will smother him with bigger, tougher two way forwards in head to head matchups.

Nonis, he's built a young team and hasn't supplied enough leadership in that room. Bolland and Clarkson were like a drop into an ocean of immaturity. Why aren't we ever in on guys like Morrow, Jagr, Whitney who can do some babysitting on the lower lines?

Franson and Kadri. Really sick of players who think they've made it only to demand big money and then regress. I'm actually completely sick of players who come up and have success and fall flat on their faces. Happened with Alex Steen too. What is wrong with Toronto?

So many dysfunctional things about Toronto, there's not enough time.
I can get behind most of this post
 

TML FTW*

Guest
Hab fan here...

Just saying (as an observer) that The Leafs have some excellent things going for them (like speed and scoring) and that Toronto does, in fact, have one of the best teams in Canada in 2014.

All the Canadian teams are struggling... its no secret.

Yes, Montreal will make the PO this year, but we all know they don't have any real chance of going all the way.

The untimely slump Leaf slump was mostly bad luck at a very critical time in the season.

Passionate Canadian hockey fans (like in Toronto) deserve better, for sure.

Peace.

LMAO. That's because 5 of the 7 teams are in the bottom 10 in the NHL. Saying we have "one of the best teams in Canada" is not saying much. smh.

Maybe to make ourselves feel better we should have special avatars that say "#2 team in Canada"
 

MajorLeaf

Maj. Conn Smythe
Dec 19, 2008
1,972
21
Ontario
Larry Tanenbaum's apology letters to the fans every year.

How about the Board of Directors votes Tanenbaum out of the Chairman seat and ensures the board does not meddle in the hockey, basketball, or soccer operations ever again. Maybe then the MLS&E franchises will be successful again.
 

Al14

Registered User
Jul 13, 2007
24,241
5,623
We're 12 forwards, 6 defenseman, and 2 goalies away from being a playoff contender.

Getter done Nonis!

We have a winner! :yo:

New roster is what is needed. The current roster is full of losers, lazy, quitting, losers! :p:
 

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