The Draft Position Thread

[haseoke39]

Tanking in the way Murray did last year isn't even possible this season. At the trade deadline we will look to move our UFAs for assets. That will happen if we are bottom 5, bottom 10 or bottom 15.

There's a distinction to be made over last year, though, on the UFA front. Last year we let absolutely everyone go unsigned so we "had" to trade them, when I think there's a reasonable argument that guys like McCormick, Neuvirth, Stewart would've been willing to sign and might have been worth the petty money they commanded. This year, hopefully we're not in that mindset. Granted, the guys hitting UFA are fairly uninspiring, but McGinn might be worth a deal.

Gosh, I just realized this summer we've got Girgensons, Ristolainen, Larsson and McCabe all needing signed. Time flies. The run-up to contending had better go fast.

 

[Heraldic]

Like many have said, the tank is dead and buried.

But you still basically act the same way. If we're far from a playoffspot, you ship every UFA for assets who you don't want to extend.

During our tank years the only non-pending UFA we shipped for futures was Sekera. Every other roster player shipped outside through trade was a pending UFA. So Murray hasn't traded non-pending UFAs on his tenure (okay, Flynn was a pending RFA...)

I'm rooting for a win in every game this year (opposed to last year). Would I still be devastated if we keep playing like this, young guys keep progressing and we end up drafting top-5? No I wouldn't be, that might even be the best case scenario. This season's biggest goal is not to obtain a certain standing spot, it is to develop our young core.

 

[Jim Bob]

If anyone wants to tank this season, I have a feeling that they will be severely disappointed with how the second half of this season goes.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Tanking in the way Murray did last year isn't even possible this season. At the trade deadline we will look to move our UFAs for assets. That will happen if we are bottom 5, bottom 10 or bottom 15.

Agree. Too many players naturally drive possession. He'll move UFAs but nothing more if the team is out of the playoff picture by the TDL.

 

[brian_griffin]

**** changes fast in hockey. This team has looked better than expected in terms of possession and chances. They're really not as far away from competitive as the record indicates.

There's going to be some stretch in a month or two where it starts connecting fast. There's going to be some point where a lot of determination and hard work suddenly starts making converting their chances feel easy and they pop off 5 wins in a row. Maybe they'll still be within 5 games of .500 when that finally comes. But this team has got both talent and work ethic right now, something that hasn't been true since 2006 or so, and those two things are going to jive sooner or later.

Look at it this way: if someone had told you that the NHL's worst possession team in the history of the stats would come out and outshoot their opponents in SIX of the first EIGHT games, you'd say damn, that's a big swing. There's a lot of momentum here just waiting to make contact.

Nice stat to provide context / contrast!

Chicago, LA and Tampa finished with 71, 79 and 80 after their two lost seasons.
If the team plays well and the young guys have solid seasons, I have no problem with finishing 25-28th.

A voice of sanity!! And their are those damn facts again...

the tanking is over....We just need to let the players develop, and add a few more players over the next couple of years....

We are done cleaning house...Most of the "new core" is already in place....

Buffalo entered tonight with a Corsi% of 52%. There were 7 games last season total when they were over 50%. Courtesy @war_on_ice. (Stolen via Twitter)

This is a strong indicator alone that they're improving in slow strides. You cannot expect miraculous change in one fell swoop.

Furthermore, ridiculous to suggest "tanking" 7,8,9 games into a season in which the top-3 draft picks will each be chosen by lottery.

This is the problem. We're a bottom 5 team with current goaltending.

Agree Sabres are bottom 5 with current goaltending, but how exactly is that a problem? This isn't a playoff team yet, and they need to learn how to play together, win together, etc.

Tanking in the way Murray did last year isn't even possible this season. At the trade deadline we will look to move our UFAs for assets. That will happen if we are bottom 5, bottom 10 or bottom 15.

The Sabres didn't tank, can't tank, won't tank, never will tank. This presumption that a team can tank and control its fate is ridiculous. Buffalo went full-on rebuild, purged UFAs at the TDL, and maximized picks and assets for the 2015 offseason, and IT STILL TOOK UNTIL GAME #81 before the final two spots were determined.

===================================
On slightly separate topic:

There's a distinction to be made over last year, though, on the UFA front. Last year we let absolutely everyone go unsigned so we "had" to trade them, when I think there's a reasonable argument that guys like McCormick, Neuvirth, Stewart would've been willing to sign and might have been worth the petty money they commanded. This year, hopefully we're not in that mindset. Granted, the guys hitting UFA are fairly uninspiring, but McGinn might be worth a deal.

Gosh, I just realized this summer we've got Girgensons, Ristolainen, Larsson and McCabe all needing signed. Time flies. The run-up to contending had better go fast.

You've brought up this point before, almost with disdain, that the Sabres don't re-sign UFAs who might be willing to re-sign, and/or they later did re-sign (Moulson), and you therefore conclude there is something wrong/heinous/unethical or at least "ungentlemanly" with flipping a pending UFA for a pick at the TDL. I just don't see it as starkly. If I'm a pending UFA, professional athlete, who could have a chance to hook on with a playoff-bound team for a couple months why would I not want to have that option? I can still make a handshake agreement to re-sign with the team that traded me once the UFA period begins. Further, it's to Buffalo's advantage to get their players playoff experience, so there's an advantage to trading a player to a playoff-bound team with the intent of re-signing them.

 

[Onslow]

Cheer for wins, expect growing pains. It's inevitable.

At least the team looks better to the "eye test", and that's encouraging.

 

[SoFFacet]

This thread confuses me. Anyone familiar with the tank/rebuild narrative on this board ought to know that the expectation/plan for this year is to improve but still not make the playoffs. Build good habits, develop chemistry between key players, level up Jack and Sam, and at the end put another set of good prospects in the pipeline. If we're lucky, it could include a top-3 prospect.

So far, so good.

 

[BloFan4Life]

This thread confuses me. Anyone familiar with the tank/rebuild narrative on this board ought to know that the expectation/plan for this year is to improve but still not make the playoffs. Build good habits, develop chemistry between key players, level up Jack and Sam, and at the end put another set of good prospects in the pipeline. If we're lucky, it could include a top-3 prospect.

So far, so good.

Scoring less than 2 goals a game is not in any type of plan and if this continues, Murray is a goner. This team was expected to be much better than this, especially the offense.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Scoring less than 2 goals a game is not in any type of plan and if this continues, Murray is a goner. This team was expected to be much better than this, especially the offense.

I am not sure Murray is a goner. He has fooled a lot of sabres fans. This team was stacked with prospects and now there is not many prospects left and huge holes to fill.

Not sure why Murray gets so many free passes. Bogosian and Kane are both injured and so is Lehner. These things happen but when it starts to become a trend it is not a good sign.

 

[brian_griffin]

Scoring less than 2 goals a game is not in any type of plan and if this continues, Murray is a goner. This team was expected to be much better than this, especially the offense.

I find both those views unrealistic at best, and exaggerations / over-reactions at worst.

I am not sure Murray is a goner. He has fooled a lot of sabres fans. This team was stacked with prospects and now there is not many prospects left and huge holes to fill.

Not sure why Murray gets so many free passes. Bogosian and Kane are both injured and so is Lehner. These things happen but when it starts to become a trend it is not a good sign.

"When it starts to become a trend???" 8 games in is a trend??? I'm wasting internet bits and bites. Can we just post cat pictures now?

Yes, Sabres were stacked with prospects and picks. They've used those prospects and picks to build a roster of young talent on ELCs and/or locked up (Kane, ROR). In doing so, they shortened the timeframe before their window of challenging for the Cup arrives, vitally essential in today's world of earlier RFA and FA eligibility. Most importantly, IMO, they also concentrated the gap/spread in ages for their current roster.

That scenario mimics what Imlach did with the Sabres of the early-mid 1970s. Moved out vets (either from the expansion draft and/or acquired in trades), while continuing to draft high-end talent (Perreault, Martin, Ramsay, Schoenfeld, Hajt, Gare, Fogolin) while also bringing in young players (Robert, Korab), and trading for other team's high-end draft choices (Guevremont, Luce). And then let the goaltending sort itself out.

I find the approach far more satisfying than having 2 of the NHL's top 45 picks each year vying to make the roster for the next 6 or so years with corresponding uncertainty of a playoff-talent roster. lather rinse repeat. It's been done before.

"go big or go home"

 

[Beerz]

I find the thread unneeded on two accounts.

1) From a fan perspective. Just read the GDT's there isn't a mention of being for a tank.

2) From a team perspective - There is absolutely nothing the front office can do or will do that can be perceived as tanking.


There is no debate here.

 

[Jame]

Scoring less than 2 goals a game is not in any type of plan and if this continues, Murray is a goner. This team was expected to be much better than this, especially the offense.

I am not sure Murray is a goner. He has fooled a lot of sabres fans. This team was stacked with prospects and now there is not many prospects left and huge holes to fill.

Not sure why Murray gets so many free passes. Bogosian and Kane are both injured and so is Lehner. These things happen but when it starts to become a trend it is not a good sign.

you guys are hilarious.

 

[Afino]

Yeah it's pretty comical to blame a GM for injuries, holy ****.

It's Tim Murray's fault that Kane had a fluke injury. Alright.

 

[brian_griffin]

you guys are hilarious.

I've been waiting for you to appear...

 

[Zip15]

Scoring less than 2 goals a game is not in any type of plan and if this continues, Murray is a goner. This team was expected to be much better than this, especially the offense.

Murray is likely safe through next season.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Yeah it's pretty comical to blame a GM for injuries, holy ****.

It's Tim Murray's fault that Kane had a fluke injury. Alright.

Media accounts suggest his prize goalie showed up out of shape.

He went cheap on goaltending for whatever reason. He could have easily signed someone else and shipped who wasn't performing to the minors.

Murray owns that decisions. The injuries? They happen. One thing I like about O'reilly is he plays an effective game without going over the top.

 

[brian_griffin]

Media accounts suggest his prize goalie showed up out of shape.

He went cheap on goaltending for whatever reason. He could have easily signed someone else and shipped who wasn't performing to the minors.

Murray owns that decisions. The injuries? They happen. One thing I like about O'reilly is he plays an effective game without going over the top.

Meaning what? Didn't sign another FA when Lehener was injured? What would it matter? Would another few wins right now matter (other than silencing threads like this one)?

Are there indeed so few people who see the "long view" on this rebuild (which is admittedly a shorter view than it would have been had Murray not made the trades, etc.)? But it's still a couple seasons out. How is anything, Anything, ANYTHING negative which has transpired in the first 8 games sufficient to change view of the goal / vision 2-3 playoffs from now?

Instant gratification millenials???

 

[Moskau]

So many people not even worth replying to in this thread.

Honestly Buffalo has the perfect storm going on of just letting the team play, letting them gel, letting them get better but also letting us get another top pick in the process. I'm not going to cheer for any losses this season unless we need to lose the last game of the season to improve our odds but I'm also hoping very much that Tim Murray doesn't do anything drastic.

If you compare Buffalo to LA, Chicago, Tampa Bay or even Pittsburgh they are right on track to finish where those teams finished after finalizing their roster turnover. Buffalo is going to be looking at a 26-29 overall finish and anyone expecting differently was misguided. I think people believed bringing in RoR and Kane was to accelerate the rebuild by a few years so we could avoid the losing seasons that the teams I just listed went through but it's never worked like that for teams who do a complete rebuild.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It matters how they look and how they play during the last 20 games or so, not the first ten. Like Beerz said, tanking is a complete non-issue going forward.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Half the team is under 23, and we are seeing exactly what a team of youngings does....dominate and look great for stretches, and look over matched and mistake prone for other stretches.

We are exactly where we should be. The 3 most important pieces....Eichel, Reinhart and Aristotle all show flashes of brilliance, now we just have to let the mature their games to a consistent nhl player

I don't see a problem, nor do I see a tank....whoever said look out for the second half of the season was spot on.

 

[Tapu Coco]

The last 2 years have been absolute hell, and now that the ideology of the team is turning the corner, I'm done with it. I can't cheer for this team to lose anymore. I went to the game against Toronto, which was probably a total snoozefest on TV, but I thought it was so exciting live because I was cheering for my team to win again. I still haven't totally comprehended the fact that we're trying to win now, and I'm stuck between the phases. Like, I don't cheer when we score, but I'm not upset.

I would like to never use the t word ever again, and psychologically repress, along with all the other threads and discussions from the past 2 years or so on this topic, this thread.

 

[dkollidas]

To me, it's not rooting for a tank. Rooting for the tank is rooting for them to lose, which I was openly a part of the past two seasons. They didn't really tank either necessarily. They sold off a bunch of assets who at best could get them 7th place in the east (Vanek, Roy, Miller, Pominville, etc). They performed poorly, and that performance rewarded them with some early picks (Grigorenko, Reinhart, Eichel). What they've basically done is taken the rewards from the trades of the old core (Vanek trade, Miller trade, Pominville, Myers trade) and exchanged that for a new supporting cast of veterans (O'Reilly, Bogosian, Kane, Lehner). They're younger, cheaper and arguably better than the old group.

That being said, I'm rooting for wins, but not expecting them, and won't be upset if they don't come. I expect this team to be a bottom 5 team, especially if they do nothing at goalie. And if they are able to draft either Matthews, Chychrun, or Puljujarvi, that's fine by me.

While it's disappointing to see the injuries to Kane, Bogosian and Lehner (and the fact that all of these guys may be developing a bit of an "injury prone" label"), I'm actually kind of excited to see Eichel and Reinhart without Kane in the lineup for a while. He and Reinhart can grow their games. Kane on the ice does take quite a bit of the onus on puck control, shooting, etc.

But to me the club is on the right track...
A franchise player (Eichel)
A clear #2 center, also a potential elite player (Reinhart)
A do it all center/winger who can play any spot (O'Reilly)
An elite scorer (Kane)
Top 9 filler (Girgensons and Larsson)
A future top defenseman (Ristolainen)
A future top-4 pair (McCabe-Pysyk)
A 4th young, top-4 Dman (Bogosian)
A solid goalie prospect/starter (Lehner)

Now some of these are question marks, and there are some needs (another top pair defenseman, and possibly another threat on the wing for Eichel to develop with, I see Kane-Reinhart as a combo for Bylsma in the future), but these are the years to find out those answers and build that core. Not all of these guys will be here in 5 years when we're hopefully winning cups, but this is the time to find out.

It's not a tank, its the beginning of the upswing of the rebuild. It will have ebbs and flows, and the beginning has had its bits of both, but at least they're exciting, and with the Pegula's leading the way, at least we know they will make honest attempts to win, unlike some other regimes we've seen run Buffalo sporting franchises.

 

[TehDoak]

My reaction to this thread:

 

[BloFan4Life]

I am not sure Murray is a goner. He has fooled a lot of sabres fans. This team was stacked with prospects and now there is not many prospects left and huge holes to fill.

Not sure why Murray gets so many free passes. Bogosian and Kane are both injured and so is Lehner. These things happen but when it starts to become a trend it is not a good sign.

You got that right.

I have never seen a person so bad at his job, yet gets praised like he is some genius. The guy hasn't done crap in the NHL but lose.

This team is completely flawed. The only saving grace may be Eichel, but in terms of how he built the other players, it is a joke.

ROR as a number 1 center, LOL

Expecing Kane to be anything more than a 3rd line RW and gives nothing more than Afino, LOL

Lehner has a number one, LLLOOOOOLLLL

Defense is a sick joke.

 

[Jame]

You got that right.

I have never seen a person so bad at his job, yet gets praised like he is some genius. The guy hasn't done crap in the NHL but lose.

This team is completely flawed. The only saving grace may be Eichel, but in terms of how he built the other players, it is a joke.

ROR as a number 1 center, LOL

Expecing Kane to be anything more than a 3rd line RW and gives nothing more than Afino, LOL

Lehner has a number one, LLLOOOOOLLLL

Defense is a sick joke.

right now, you're all like:

but in a year, you're gonna be like: