The Draft and Rogers from a fed up fan

[Wafflewhipper]

I have been a long time fan and I have finally come to my wits end. Several months ago I stopped watching this team altogether. It wasn't necessarily this unlikable roster, but more to do with a decade of failure and the growing resentment I have had not only for management, but of the NHL as a whole.

I am 31 years old, I have watched this team since I was 5. I remember immediately the terrible goaltending tandem of Peter Ing and Allen Bester. I remember the hype behind some obscure Russian prospect whose calling card came when he was shipped to Calgary in part of the Gilmour trade. I remember my father telling me what the Leafs meant to him, even as a teenager who barely spoke English. In that 1993 series against Detroit, it was my dad who told me to hold out hope late in the 3rd period, and sure enough it was the most satisfying victory I have ever experienced as a Leaf fan.

In the last 30 years this franchise has had some good to great players. Never a team talented enough to go all the way. Pat Quinn, God bless his soul, got more out of a roster than any other coach we had in the past. Who could have imagined a team with a defense tandem of Lumme and Berg could make it to the Conference Final? It wasn't necessarily the quality of the roster, but the team cohesion and great goaltending that led to some near successes.

The last decade has been a complete embarrassment for this organization. Sadly, they were not punished financially until late this season. The value of the Leafs has grown significantly since the lock-out of 2004-2005. In that time-frame we, the Leaf fan base, have had to witness franchises win Cups with superstar players we could only dream of having. After the more recent lock-out I have started paying attention to how the league works, and after reading more about revenue sharing Leaf fans should be outraged. The blatant hypocrisy displayed by the owners and the NHL is a slap in the face, and furthermore, the players are becoming entitled. I do not blame the players, they need to benefit from their dealings with the owners, after all, they are ultimately the product and any one of us would take a sweetheart deal; however, it just isn't tasteful anymore.

As teams like Tampa transitioned from Lecavalier, Richards, and St. Louis to Hedman and Stamkos, I have watched the Leafs ice teams that included the likes of John Pohl, Andy Wozniewski, JS Aubin, Bates Battaglia, Andrew Raycroft, Vesa Toskala, Jason Blake, and who knows how many other plugs have had the honour of skating on the ACC ice surface. This current crop of players is just a collection of misfits and brats. Besides a handful of players, the management needs to totally revamp their roster. Hopefully, the next group of players appreciate where they play and leave their blood, sweat and tears on the ice. This city deserves it.

My ultimate point is, for too long Leaf fans have been propping up the NHL and its terrible business decisions. Canadian fans as a whole deserve better. Many of these players are born and raised in our cities and are educated in our schools, while playing in rinks paid for by tax payer money. Admiring them from a far while watching our own wretched team has become too taxing. If on draft day, Rogers is not 'rewarded' for acquiring the television rights for a bush league professional sports league while also owning one of the biggest hockey franchises in Canada I am officially out. The mismanagement of this league borders on asinine.

Well that was well said. Strome or Mc David should help your repulsion though. I have to ask though. Have you ever witnesses a bigger collection of coward players as a leaf team?

 

[1995]

Well that was well said. Strome or Mc David should help your repulsion though. I have to ask though. Have you ever witnesses a bigger collection of coward players as a leaf team?

Never. This is just gross.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Sounds like the OP takes hockey a little too seriously.

Really? Well count me serious also I suppose. He was articulate and factual. Probably lots of posters feel the same.

 

[The Legend]

The day is always darkest before the dawn my friends.

We are due for some good luck. It's part of the reason I've been cheering against the Leafs since October. We are DUE.

 

[The Legend]

Well that was well said. Strome or Mc David should help your repulsion though. I have to ask though. Have you ever witnesses a bigger collection of coward players as a leaf team?

What do you mean by cowards? They just aren't good at hockey.

 

[Hero]

Tonight is the first game I'm watching in 2015.

Ratings are down, slowly they will hurt.

 

[NonisMustGo*]

The league owes us nothing.Only our ownership and management is to blame.I feel the OP's pain and agree with him 100% except expecting the league to reward us for something we don't deserve.

The League does owe us, as does Rogers and Bell, as does the players. The amount of money the league has generated from this poor excuse of a team is beyond comprehension. I can understand some barren years, but what management and ownership did over the last decade was downright inexcusable. Had MLSE preached a modicum of patience we wouldn't be stuck with a roster full of problem children. In the NHL you build through the middle. You need a number 1 center, number 1 goalie, and a first pairing defender who is a horse/warrior. Had JFJ not made that Rask trade, had Burke not acquired Phil Kessel, there is a good possibility this rebuild would have been complete. Instead we squandered significant assets for peanuts. Say what you want about Phil Kessel, but in my opinion the guy is a complete loser. Zero competitive fire, terrible work ethic (in fact I think it is lacking altogether), and an entitled attitude. Making him the marquee move of the rebuild sadly doomed this organization for years to come, further consolidated by the signing of his contract extension (as well as Phaneuf's). Sometimes I feel Leafs management is purposely trying to fail. Some of the moves are so boneheaded I still scratch my head.

Why do I feel like the league 'owes' us? Perhaps you guys should read my original post again. These Canadian players are nurtured and developed here, with our resources and education, to see them playing in **** markets like Florida, Tampa, etc is just a slap in the face, especially when you have the knowledge that these guys are playing in these markets exclusively because of one slimy rat's obsession to 'grow' the sport.

I also simply cannot stand the fact that league economics are fundamentally based on a socialist model (revenue sharing), which I find ironic considering many of the owners are fiscally conservative.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

What do you mean by cowards? They just aren't good at hockey.

Yeah how true. As a group they are a poor supporting cast. Thing is though,we can see some Marlies compete for jobs next fall. Mc William is ready now by the looks of him. I would rather they send him back to help the Marlies at present though. He wouldn't agree with me financially lol.

 

[theTTC]

So your investment in the team relies on whether the NHL fixes the draft lottery or not? Consider yourself already gone because it isn't going to be fixed.

Yes it is: Arizona will be gifted the first pick. EVERYTHING in America is ruled by money, American lawyers run the NHL, and they badly want Arizona to succeed in the desert (rather than put a second sure-thing team here in the GTA - think about that), so McDavid a Coyote it is. Bank on it.

 

[ITM]

Yes it is: Arizona will be gifted the first pick. EVERYTHING in America is ruled by money, American lawyers run the NHL, and they badly want Arizona to succeed in the desert (rather than put a second sure-thing team here in the GTA - think about that), so McDavid a Coyote it is. Bank on it.

I don't think that's far off in the following scenario, were this the scenario that takes place in an NHL headquarters boardroom...

You have Toronto, the largest market in hockey, essentially buffering the rest of the league against insolvency, what have you. Every year, as a time and circumstance tested model, the Leafs fan base continues to support their club in tickets sales, subscriptions, merchandise, etc...Then we have Arizona, Carolina, etc...Specifically Arizona however, who could be primed to sell. If the option is reward an already financial golden goose in Toronto whose club may suffer a dip in support once in almost 50 years, or arm a franchise about to be positioned to sell to Seattle, Quebec, wherever...Wouldn't it be of demonstrable fiduciary irresponsibility not to award McDavid to Arizona and the prospective owner in a new hockey market where his jersey sales alone could...


It's not far off at all to think that the NHL sees Arizona as the most financially responsible location for McDavid...

But I'm still crossing my fingers it's us

 

[Menzinger]

Yes it is: Arizona will be gifted the first pick. EVERYTHING in America is ruled by money, American lawyers run the NHL, and they badly want Arizona to succeed in the desert (rather than put a second sure-thing team here in the GTA - think about that), so McDavid a Coyote it is. Bank on it.

If Arizona wins the draft - it's became they have a reasonably high chance of winning the lottery due to their draft position - not because of some conspiracy that you have absolutely zero credible proof of existing.

 

[theTTC]

If Arizona wins the draft - it's became they have a reasonably high chance of winning the lottery due to their draft position - not because of some conspiracy that you have absolutely zero credible proof of existing.

And you have proof it doesn't?

My conspiracy theory is based on observation and analysis. You think a corporate entity worth billions doesn't attempt to manipulate and control every single variable that affects profit (e.g. Crosby to an ailing Pittsburgh franchise with Mario bleeding cash)? You think there aren't back-room schemes and agreements at the highest level to maximize league "health" (McDavid to Arizona)? Are you so naive that you think all that the NHL braintrust does is wring their hands about shootout 4v4 or 3v3 laugh? You think powerful ownership lobbyists don't sway business decisions (not allowing a second team in the GTA)?

Hell, even the local in-bred hillbilly municipal council is bent.

 

[trickster]

in 1991 everyone was obsessed with Eric Lindros.

in the same draft teams took home Niedermayer, Forsberg, Kovalev, Nylander, Whitney, Naslund, Palffy, and a number of other productive players... The Leafs got Yanic Perreault in the third round - which was remarkable luck - (even though they dealt him for a 4th shrtly after)... all in all, that draft ( the Lindros lust, the botched Niedermayer pick, and the Perreault debacle is symbolic of the Leafs ineptitude. almost every team got richer in that draft, but the Leafs did not. while the Leafs may not get McDavid this draft, I am comforted knowing that they will get a key piece of the solution... something they were not able to do in 1991.

 

[BlueBaron]

And you have proof it doesn't?

My conspiracy theory is based on observation and analysis. You think a corporate entity worth billions doesn't attempt to manipulate and control every single variable that affects profit (e.g. Crosby to an ailing Pittsburgh franchise with Mario bleeding cash)? You think there aren't back-room schemes and agreements at the highest level to maximize league "health" (McDavid to Arizona)? Are you so naive that you think all that the NHL braintrust does is wring their hands about shootout 4v4 or 3v3 laugh? You think powerful ownership lobbyists don't sway business decisions (not allowing a second team in the GTA)?

Hell, even the local in-bred hillbilly municipal council is bent.

You have 0 proof and they have more to lose than gain by being caught. Also you ignore the fact that each team is it's own business and it is highly unlikely the Leafs or any other team is going to allow the league to just hand McDavid to Arizona when they themselves would profit from him.

The NHL is not a communist community, they are a bunch of competing businesses with their own interests.

Using your own logic, would Rogers think they will make more money with McDavid or by giving him away ?

I'll use your own argument against you. Give us one shred of proof that the lottery has ever been rigged. Don't say Crosby because that is just paranoid speculation and his generation of Conspiracy theorists all maintained the league would put him on the Rangers "because it would be best for the league". We know how that turned out.

So you suggest Bettman would risk his career and reputation doing this either with or without the consent of the league .

You suggest that the accounting firm that oversees the lottery would risk their reputation to help Bettman in his conspiracy.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Fans: WE SUCK! Rebuild it! Lets tank for a few years!

Team: Okay, we will listen

*team starts sucking*

Fans: We suck! Make us good!

*Not even at first draft of rebuild*..


Yet some think the fans can handle this. Their pressure will make the team make a short sighted move.

 

[Woodman19]

Fans: WE SUCK! Rebuild it! Lets tank for a few years!

Team: Okay, we will listen

*team starts sucking*

Fans: We suck! Make us good!

*Not even at first draft of rebuild*..


Yet some think the fans can handle this. Their pressure will make the team make a short sighted move.

Most fans can handle it, its the small vocal minority who *****es about every little thing that can't handle it and who really cares about what they think? We sucked long enough trying to play it year by year.

 

[King Leaf]

Fans: WE SUCK! Rebuild it! Lets tank for a few years!

Team: Okay, we will listen

*team starts sucking*

Fans: We suck! Make us good!

*Not even at first draft of rebuild*..


Yet some think the fans can handle this. Their pressure will make the team make a short sighted move.

Agreed, I get that people have opposing views on how the team should be handled but I firmly believe the uproar a few fans manufacture has a negative impact on the team. Say whatever you want, just be civilized about it.

 

[King Leaf]

You have 0 proof and they have more to lose than gain by being caught. Also you ignore the fact that each team is it's own business and it is highly unlikely the Leafs or any other team is going to allow the league to just hand McDavid to Arizona when they themselves would profit from him.

The NHL is not a communist community, they are a bunch of competing businesses with their own interests.

Using your own logic, would Rogers think they will make more money with McDavid or by giving him away ?

I'll use your own argument against you. Give us one shred of proof that the lottery has ever been rigged. Don't say Crosby because that is just paranoid speculation and his generation of Conspiracy theorists all maintained the league would put him on the Rangers "because it would be best for the league". We know how that turned out.

So you suggest Bettman would risk his career and reputation doing this either with or without the consent of the league .

You suggest that the accounting firm that oversees the lottery would risk their reputation to help Bettman in his conspiracy.

I hate it when people make that argument. 'There's no proof it doesn't exist, so therefore it must!'

 

[BlueBaron]

I hate it when people make that argument. 'There's no proof it doesn't exist, so therefore it must!'

Well in this case it's an argument that is balanced. There is no "proof" the draft has never been rigged just as there is no "proof" it has. So then you go off probability . There are far more safeguard to ensure it isn't rigged than to make sure it is.

 

[The Legend]

And you have proof it doesn't?

My conspiracy theory is based on observation and analysis. You think a corporate entity worth billions doesn't attempt to manipulate and control every single variable that affects profit (e.g. Crosby to an ailing Pittsburgh franchise with Mario bleeding cash)? You think there aren't back-room schemes and agreements at the highest level to maximize league "health" (McDavid to Arizona)? Are you so naive that you think all that the NHL braintrust does is wring their hands about shootout 4v4 or 3v3 laugh? You think powerful ownership lobbyists don't sway business decisions (not allowing a second team in the GTA)?

Hell, even the local in-bred hillbilly municipal council is bent.

You do realize that the draft lottery is audited by an accounting firm that has far more at stake than the puny NHL?

 

[BlueBaron]

You do realize that the draft lottery is audited by an accounting firm that has far more at stake than the puny NHL?

People ignore this fact over and over. Nothing we say will convince them. It is difficult to understand.

 

[The Apologist]

I agree. That just shows fans like 'Cy Nick' just don't get it. They don't need to win. They make a profit that is highest in the League, regardless of how they do on the ice.

No, Cynick is one of the few who do. To suggest that the ownership has not tried their best to build a winner is laughable. A Cup here would be a licence to print money forever.

 

[BlueBaron]

No, Cynick is one of the few who do. To suggest that the ownership has not tried their best to build a winner is laughable. A Cup here would be a licence to print money forever.

And to add to your point, if they didn't want to win why would they spend to the Cap every year, spend more on every department and make sure the team has the best of everything ? The desire is there, it's just been poorly executed.

 

[ITM]

Well in this case it's an argument that is balanced. There is no "proof" the draft has never been rigged just as there is no "proof" it has. So then you go off probability . There are far more safeguard to ensure it isn't rigged than to make sure it is.

"Safeguard"read aloud sounds an awful lot like "trust us" in any number of environments that sell integrity via security only to have been found compromising the trust of it's clients.

 

[buttman*]

The day is always darkest before the dawn my friends.

We are due for some good luck. It's part of the reason I've been cheering against the Leafs since October. We are DUE.

You mean the 47 years before the dawn? And counting.