Post-Game Talk: The Devil always wins

[Forgot About Drai]

People come on here to vent man. Let it be. The positivity police on this board are just as toxic as the people complaining. Both are so annoying.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Wasn't it reported that Nurse wanted 8M x 4 years to end his deal the same time as McDavid and then Seth Jones got 9.5M x 8 years and that's when Nurse upped the bid to 10M x 8 years? Holland did bring the offer down to 9.25M. Like I said, this says more about Nurse than Holland. The guy wanted a big pay since the get go

But never mind orchestrating the events that led to the disastrous Jones contract in the first place, Holland had the entire season to hammer out a deal with Nurse and just assumed that his career year was the norm instead of... well, a career year. The GM is the one with the final say. I mean look at that Koskinen contract. Do you think he held Chiarelli's balls and told him to pay that much? How about Kassian? How did Devin Shore and other such nobodies snag extra years out of Holland?

It takes 2 to play the game. Holland stayed patient with RNH, Barrie, Hyman and Nurse. 3 guys those reasonable deals. Nurse took max possible

Barrie was a stupid contract too, so that's not really making your case. Hyman and RNH are good deals, but it was obvious he wanted Hyman from the get-go and that contract is going to look pretty awful about halfway through it.

Nurse was handed a deal that nobody else was going to pay him, especially coming off last year. Yes it takes two to tango, and Holland blinked before Nurse even started dancing. This is a GM notorious for bad contract extensions, just ask Red Wings fans.

 

[CupofOil]

I also highly doubt Holland offered him the biggest contract possible with enthusiasm. It’s more likely one side knew they were f***ed and the other knew the other side was f***ed, lol.

Yep, and my issue is that this could have been easily avoided on many fronts. Forget the bridge nonsense even, if he had merely waited to make the Keith trade AFTER signing Nurse, he likely could have gotten him in the low end 8 range. Once Jones got his bag, it was curtains for Holland.

Holland has done some good but he needs to hand the reigns to somebody else, too little too late I guess at this point since this group is locked in for a long time.

 

[Cloned]

Yep, and my issue is that this could have been easily avoided on many fronts. Forget the bridge nonsense even, if he had merely waited to make the Keith trade AFTER signing Nurse, he likely could have gotten him in the low end 8 range. Once Jones got his bag, it was curtains for Holland.

Holland has done some good but he needs to hand the reigns to somebody else, too little too late I guess at this point since this group is locked in for a long time.

I stated multiple times that none of this excuses Holland.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I stated multiple times that none of this excuses Holland.

Well as far as f***ups go, it's a pretty big one that will likely outlast his tenure here.

 

[rboomercat90]

Some trades need to happen here

I agree but what do you do? It kinda has to be a big ticket item that’s going to return anything we can use. You’re not improving the team trading McDrai so that’s out. Kane and Hyman should be untouchables. What kind of value do Puljijarvi and Yamamoto still have left? You can move those guys but not for a return that helps anything. The only player the team might be able to trade and actually help the team is Nurse and that’s not happening unless he starts playing like a 9 million dollar defenseman. If he was capable of that we wouldn‘t be in the mess we’re in. Nobody else on the roster I can see that can reasonably expect to return anything that can help right now. Guys can always be moved, Chiarelli showed us that but those moves are usually lateral moves or worse. Holland went all in with this roster and we may just be stuck with it.

 

[CupofOil]

I stated multiple times that none of this excuses Holland.

Uh... I know. I didn't say anything regarding that in the previous post. Just venting my frustration at how poorly Holland handled the situation.

 

[Cloned]

Uh... I know. I didn't say anything regarding that in the previous post. Just venting my frustration at how poorly Holland handled the situation.

We’re all venting here.

Cheers!

 

[rboomercat90]

Situation was different with Nurse.

He had close friends here. He had two of the best players in the world here. He had a good thing going here with people that he liked and wanted to be around. They all probably wanted to win together here. He had already made a decent amount of money in his career. He knew he would be making a decent amount more on his next contract; the only question was how much. He also knew the team was already having and was going to keep having cap issues.

Did he really need to ask for the moon because he knew he had the team by the balls? It was his right but it doesn’t mean he had to do it. Not if he was serious about wanting to win here.

I’m not excusing Holland for any of the perfectly valid reasons you listed. But Nurse isn’t blame free here, both in his ask and in his subsequent performance.

I’ve given up on the delusion that any of these players put the chance of winning ahead of dollars if they have the opportunity to get every dollar they can. Maybe later on in their careers when they‘re closing in on the end and they’ve moved around a bit but not when they’re still on the their original team. They may whine later about not winning but it’s not their fault, it’s the GM’s fault.

 

[CupofOil]

We’re all venting here.

Cheers!

Well, at least I still have the Lions. Wait, What?

 

[Cloned]

I’ve given up on the delusion that any of these players put the chance of winning ahead of dollars if they have the opportunity to get every dollar they can. Maybe later on in their careers when they‘re closing in on the end and they’ve moved around a bit but not when they’re still on the their original team. They may whine later about not winning but it’s not their fault, it’s the GM’s fault.

Some players do take reasonable deals. Not even discounts, just reasonable deals.

 

[Cloned]

Well, at least I still have the Lions. Wait, What?

Haven’t they won like two in a row or something?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Some players do take reasonable deals. Not even discounts, just reasonable deals.

Not very often around these parts. 6.1 for a combined 1 goal between Yamamoto and JP.

 

[SwedishFire]

I liked Kostin's game.

It feels like it's only a matter of time until the Oileritis sets in though.

The pattern is that the coach gets desperate to get things going, and puts guys from bottom 6 that playing good with mcDavid or Draisaitl. That unloads all sense of a hierachy, and that you have to fight to climb up. Players get that there is no hierachy, no pyramid. And that is like putting a needle in a balloon. Why fight if you get rewarded by just play as you sgould as a 3rd liner. Not being rewarded for playing top6 hockey.

Yamamoto, Puljujärvi, Holloway, Järnmark, MacLeod, Fogele, Rattie. Come everybody - play with McDavid, you just need to look like you fight and care for some games.

If a player plays good, keep him on that line. Dont put his head under water.
Oilers neeeds a trade. Or two. If they want to be contenders.

On a positive note, Pulju finally found a stay at a 3rd line.What happens though when our other 3 million 3rd line winger comes back.. yams will slot in with Draisaitl.. again. I promise.

 

[Soundwave]

Not very often around these parts. 6.1 for a combined 1 goal between Yamamoto and JP.

The gamble on these two is killing our season that 6.1 million could have been spent on two productive players, we're not built to be good defensively but we could have at least been strong offensively, but with Kane out and these two doing nothing that makes things very hard.

 

[rboomercat90]

Some players do take reasonable deals. Not even discounts, just reasonable deals.

The ones at the tail end of their careers maybe. Not the ones looking for their first big deal from their original teams. Those guys don’t take discounts. They either sign for every dollar they can get or they get traded if the GM won’t pay it.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

Yet another clip where you ask yourself "Where the hell is Draisaitl?".

Are they coaching for him to be the third forward back every time?

This is troubling.
Not that Draisaitl will ever be confused with Bob Gainey, but he usually at least makes an appearance in his own end.
Hopefully this is an example of simply a bad game and not that he's playing with an injury or worse yet, gassed already.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

It’s incredible how fast people jump ship on a coach.

Nov 1st after we beat Nashville people were basically calling Woody Scotty Bowman junior…….

Okay now I am off the site for awhile ha can’t keep reading this sky is falling shit.

Yeah but the same thing was said about Tippett and he proved all the fans right in the end. I said you can't fire him but he's inexperienced and he and the whole team got lifted by the addition of Kane in season and now down a top six forward we look just like we did last December. The defense has gotten remarkably worse since he initially joined the team something most ppl thought wouldmt happen to this degree with the addition of Manson as a coach.

 

[KlefDown]

People come on here to vent man. Let it be. The positivity police on this board are just as toxic as the people complaining. Both are so annoying.

the false positivity brigade on HFOil is the worst

can't say anything without being called a fake fan or being told to stop supporting the team

McDrai in their primes and on the downswing of their contract and we have donut to show for it and people still preach patience. These guys are gonna end up like Joe Thornton and Iginla with zero rings

 

[Mez]

Our bottom "six" (really five) forwards make a combined 6.5 mil and have 6 goals between all of them. And that's not even getting into JP and Yamamoto, which bumps it up 12.6 for seven goals.

The amount of dead weight up front on this roster would make Tambellini blush.

Part of the problem is McDavid is averaging 23 min a night again. Hard to blame the bottom 3 guys for not scoring when they get like 5 second shifts.
Our bottom guys scored more end of last season when they got more time and built some chemistry.

 

[Mez]

the false positivity brigade on HFOil is the worst

can't say anything without being called a fake fan or being told to stop supporting the team

McDrai in their primes and on the downswing of their contract and we have donut to show for it and people still preach patience. These guys are gonna end up like Joe Thornton and Iginla with zero rings

So the Negative Nancy's find the Positive Polly's annoying, and the Positive Polly's find the Negative Nancy's annoying.

Ground breaking stuff.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Part of the problem is McDavid is averaging 23 min a night again. Hard to blame the bottom 3 guys for not scoring when they get like 5 second shifts.
Our bottom guys scored more end of last season when they got more time and built some chemistry.

Derek Ryan - 11 minutes
Warren Foegele - 13 minutes
Ryan McLeod - 19 minutes

The only guys who played less than 10 minutes are Holloway and Kostin and even then they weren't that far below.

Meanwhile, the goal scorers for the Devils:

Sharangovich - 11:05
Bratt - 15:43
Tatar - 14:10
Mercer - 12:03
Severson - 13:31

How much time does the bottom six need to score a goal?

 

[SnipeShowJB11]

Part of the problem is McDavid is averaging 23 min a night again. Hard to blame the bottom 3 guys for not scoring when they get like 5 second shifts.
Our bottom guys scored more end of last season when they got more time and built some chemistry.

This. Our bottom 6 sucks, but how do you create any chemistry at all and find your linemates tendencies when you are always shuffled around and not played that much?

All he preached last year was how the bottom 6 have to get into the game and play more. Derek Ryan benefited.

Now it's stupid 7 dmen and blenders.

i don't know what this coach is doing

Edit - Just seen Keith's post above. Ok that is more than what I thought. That is enough ice time. Stop the 7D though FFS

 

[DaGap]

Derek Ryan - 11 minutes
Warren Foegele - 13 minutes
Ryan McLeod - 19 minutes

The only guys who played less than 10 minutes are Holloway and Kostin and even then they weren't that far below.

Meanwhile, the goal scorers for the Devils:

Sharangovich - 11:05
Bratt - 15:43
Tatar - 14:10
Mercer - 12:03
Severson - 13:31

How much time does the bottom six need to score a goal?

This. Our bottom 6 sucks, but how do you create any chemistry at all and find your linemates tendencies when you are always shuffled around and not played that much?

All he preached last year was how the bottom 6 have to get into the game and play more. Derek Ryan benefited.

Now it's stupid 7 dmen and blenders.

i don't know what this coach is doing

Edit - Just seen Keith's post above. Ok that is more than what I thought. That is enough ice time. Stop the 7D though FFS

Im curious on the Devils bottom six how much time have those guys played together on a line since game 1 vs the oilers bottom 6 in the same time periode

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Im curious on the Devils bottom six how much time have those guys played together on a line since game 1 vs the oilers bottom 6 in the same time periode

I couldn't tell you, but the deck chairs in the bottom six aren't getting it done period and haven't for a number of years now.