The Development thread

[ahmedou]

Montreal Canadiens: #23

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Montreal Canadiens: #23

#1 to #10 are mostly all teams that have drafted high for many years (before 2016, cuz counting after 2016 is a bit disingenuous). And vice versa for the teams 21 to 30.

 

[Doc McKenna]

#1 to #10 are mostly all teams that have drafted high for many years (before 2016, cuz counting after 2016 is a bit disingenuous). And vice versa for the teams 21 to 30.

Also says drafted. We didn't draft Eller or Suzuki. And to the point we missed out on a lot of draft picks at one point. Would be interesting if it was cross referanced how many games players played with their draft team, and how many picks overall.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Also says drafted. We didn't draft Eller or Suzuki. And to the point we missed out on a lot of draft picks at one point. Would be interesting if it was cross referanced how many games players played with their draft team, and how many picks overall.

I did a draft-power ranking, so what I said is based on that. Ask TLTQ, she really took a hold of my draft-power ranking.

 

[Doc McKenna]

I did a draft power ranking, so what I said is based on that. Ask TLTQ, she really took a hold of my draft power ranking.

I don't think we missed 2 playoff in a row till mid to late teens(recently)

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I don't think we missed 2 playoff in a row till mid to late teens(recently)

And that's tge biggest reason why we're in the bottom 10

 

[ahmedou]

Development is for everyone. From grinders to the talents. It's the right of all of our prospects. It's our main duty as an organization. By continuing to develop them till the end.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Also says drafted. We didn't draft Eller or Suzuki. And to the point we missed out on a lot of draft picks at one point. Would be interesting if it was cross referanced how many games players played with their draft team, and how many picks overall.

Post 55 and 60 on page 3. Does not factor in this past season though. I'll do that before the next season starts. Got a few other adjustments to make as well. Takes about 2 days part time to calculate it all. Best Drafting Teams in the NHL

The games played and how many picks overall is there as well as many other things. This is strict drafting and Suzuki don't count for the Habs. Wish I had live stat tracking and filtering to make it on demand and you can run your own reports using certain filters. I did this in excel. Played with various forms of the formulas you see at the bottom (Draft power, Draft pick hit score, and overall rating formula).

08-15 draft years are not good for the Habs. 16-19 draft years appear to be good and results are slightly better than draft power. Did them in groups of 4 year spans, 8 year spans, and the 12 year span from 08-19. Let me know if you have any questions.

Watch out for the Sens... they are actually a very good drafting team when they have high draft power

 

[Habs Halifax]

And that's tge biggest reason why we're in the bottom 10

100% true. Both draft and developing go hand and hand to some degree but the main reason why we are in our current hole is the drafting and developing was not so good from 08-15. Way too early to have results from 16-19 at this stage.

If not for Bergevin's trades, we would be worse than where we have been. Not pumping Bergevin's tires.. more about showing how bad the drafting was

 

[Habs Halifax]

I did a draft power ranking, so what I said is based on that. Ask TLTQ, she really took a hold of my draft power ranking.

I might work on updating it to include the last season here in the next few weeks. Habs continue to be the team with the most games played by our picks from 16-19 I would imagine. Not sure how the pts/game stats are affected though after this past season.

The biggest thing that stand out to me is the Sens from 08-11. They killed it in the draft score formula compared to all other teams in that range. When you look at 08-19, they are 3rd. Ducks, Lightning, Sens, Caps, Preds, Islanders, Flames, Wings, Kings, Bruins, Wild are the top 10 over the last 12 years. Habs are 29th cause our 08-15 years suck bad and the 16-19 years don't recover us enough cause it's too early

16-19 is way to early cause some teams have picks that have played a total of 0 games. Leafs ranked 4th but will move up quickly. Flames, Jets, Blue Jackets, Leafs, Coyotes, Blackhawks, Habs, Bruins, Preds, Devils are the top 10 so far in the last 4 years. Will be interesting to see the movement (up/down) as we move forward in the next few years and we start to see hits/busts

 

[abo9]

Also says drafted. We didn't draft Eller or Suzuki. And to the point we missed out on a lot of draft picks at one point. Would be interesting if it was cross referanced how many games players played with their draft team, and how many picks overall.

But we drafted McDonagh and Sergachev who developed into another organization, I think in Montreal's case it either cancels out or we look better because of those cases, not the opposite.

We were at the top of such charts in around 2010-2015 if I'm not mistaken. We had a lot of prospects carving careers as depth guys, playing lots of games. What we always lacked (and still do) is true top talent. I thought we finally had something with Patch, Subban and Price but the team never really took off as a bona-fide contender during their tenure.

Watch out for the Sens... they are actually a very good drafting team when they have high draft power

Sens' problem was never drafting or development from what I saw over the years, it's whatever management has been doing. Now, I'm hoping for Sens fans that if the team takes off again, they keep their star players this time around...

 

[ahmedou]

It's not just up to the development team to get him where he ends up. A lot of that falls on Romanov to keep being hungry and work hard at it. This whole idea that development falls on the team is skewed tremendously. A organization can only do so much and it mostly falls on the player

Some prospect and prospects need to be helped. The development team has a huge part on developping. After all, they're their Achilles heel.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Some prospect and prospects need to be helped. The development team has a huge part on developping. After all, they're their Achilles heel.

Their job is to facilitate the best environment. Not sure what % that adds up to giving credit if a player turns into a NHL'er but it's not more than 50%. More like 10% - 30% range ish. Nobody can nail that down with facts but I strongly believe the players hunger to improve and work hard at it matters the most.

Each player has to be managed differently though. Interesting thing about Poehling is Bergevin tells him to trust the process but maybe Poehling should be giving himself a kick in his own ass and not expecting the organization to turn him into the player he wants to be. I think he came to realize that in the 2nd half of last season

Whatever you do, you do it the best you can. So they will be thrown into various situations and assignments. Handling assignments is only part of the development.

 

[montreal]

Their job is to facilitate the best environment. Not sure what % that adds up to giving credit if a player turns into a NHL'er but it's not more than 50%. More like 10% - 30% range ish. Nobody can nail that down with facts but I strongly believe the players hunger to improve and work hard at it matters the most.

Each player has to be managed differently though. Interesting thing about Poehling is Bergevin tells him to trust the process but maybe Poehling should be giving himself a kick in his own ass and not expecting the organization to turn him into the player he wants to be. I think he came to realize that in the 2nd half of last season

Whatever you do, you do it the best you can. So they will be thrown into various situations and assignments. Handling assignments is only part of the development.

You can work as hard as possible but if you don't get put in the right spot it likely won't come to much. For example if you are a skilled playmaker you need to be with someone that can convert your passes or else it's not going to work out that well no matter how hard you work.

To me one of the main factors in regards to development is confidence, so much hinges on it, if you have it you can be tough to stop and if you lose it, it can be very hard to get back. A player lacking in confidence can slid down a slippery slope.

 

[DAChampion]

I think that the Habs development is trending in the right direction. I watched about 15 games of the Rocket this past year, and what I saw was a a team that was competing, where a lot of players were improving over time, notably Kotkaniemi and Brook.

It is good news that the Habs now have an ECHL team. They need that as overflow for the AHL, as it's better to play 20 minutes in the ECHL than 10 minutes in the AHL. Past players like Alexander Avtsin, Jacob De La Rose, and Morgan Ellis would have benefited from being allowed to dominate the ECHL. This past year we saw the spectacle of McNiven getting no ice time because the team had to play Keith Kincaid and his .876 SV%. For a while, McNiven actually had to rent his own ice.

We might see some fruits of all of this in these play-ins. In theory none of these players should play, but I expect a lot if absences due to Covid. There will also be absences on the opposing teams, which should level the playing field.

I like that Bergevin is no longer as eager to rush prospects. Norlinder, Romanov, etc were left in Europe. Caulfield is going back to the NCAA, Suzuki spent two years in the CHL, and Kotkaniemi went down to Laval.

However, all of this is threatened by Covid. There might not be a 2021 season, or it night be delayed. Hopefully, a lot of our prospects can get positions in safer European countries if that happens.

 

[ahmedou]

#Kotkaniemi(2018-2019)vsSuzuki(2019-2020)

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Don’t think it’s a coincidence that good teams have their young players develop the best. The experience that KK and Suzuki are getting right now is the best thing that ever happened to them. Losing out on a top 10 pick hurts, but my confidence in KK and Suzuki becoming a great 1A/1B Center tandem is extremely high- and well worth that sacrifice no matter what happens.

 

[ahmedou]

Reproduce that in the regular season too.

 

[Habsrule]

Beating Pittsburgh and moving out of the top ten I thought was a bad thing for the long run for the team. I figured having another good prospect was the best thing. Boy was I ever wrong. KK and Suzuki really stepped their games up. Next year having a top three centers of KK, Suzuki and Danault I am very confident with.

Evans looks like he belongs on the fourth line. Poehling maybe pushes Evans to the wing if he can win the fourth line center job.

Mete I found has really stepped his game up too. He is skating the puck up the ice a lot and using his speed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Beating Pittsburgh and moving out of the top ten I thought was a bad thing for the long run for the team. I figured having another good prospect was the best thing. Boy was I ever wrong. KK and Suzuki really stepped their games up. Next year having a top three centers of KK, Suzuki and Danault I am very confident with.

Evans looks like he belongs on the fourth line. Poehling maybe pushes Evans to the wing if he can win the fourth line center job.

Mete I found has really stepped his game up too. He is skating the puck up the ice a lot and using his speed.

You know what a good lesson to learn is... never be so sure of one direction. 12 months ago, Domi was our #1C. I wanted the shot at Lafreniere too and if we beat the Pens, I was worried about us getting killed in the next round loosing 4 games straight and this would be all for nothing.

None us can predict the future. For all we know, Suzuki has a Kotkaniemi type 2nd year. Doubt that but hey... "anything can happen". This is why I say our fan base needs to be careful with ignoring the Price and Weber window they have left.