The DeBoer Debacle Part 4

[BahlDeep]

based on what?

Based on the way the team played this year.

If our players could score in the shootout, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[devilsblood]

There's a difference between getting contributions from young players and the "we're going to lose, we might as well lose with kids" attitude that some people seem to have around here. Gelinas has played 60 games this year, and is getting a little under 17 minutes a night. I would say that's being given plenty of opportunity, especially given his weaknesses defensively. Merrill is playing 19 minutes a night as a rookie. Henrique has played a ton as a young player. Larsson has played 125 games in the NHL as a defenseman, and he's 21. Kids have been given plenty of opportunities under this coach who doesn't know how to coach kids. Some have grabbed the opportunity and run with it. Others haven't.

I'm all about the "if you're going to lose you might as lose with your young kids" philosophy.

And not in all cases, but in JJ's case where we can't send him down because another team will claim him, so instead he rides the pine while Gio Bernier and Carter rack up about zero points over a 3 month span? For team that can't put together a 3 game win streak? Yeah man, might as well do that with the 22 yr old.

Larsson is prob another quality example. Now I do think he benefited playing in Albany so it is different scenario, but would he have benefitted more in the NHL? Yeah very possible.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Based on the way the team played this year.

If our players could score in the shootout, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

how many wins do they have since January of 2013? 52? in what, 130 games?

thats not good enough.

 

[devilsblood]

Based on the way the team played this year.

If our players could score in the shootout, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Maybe. We are 3,4 and 5 points back of 3 teams who all have a game in hand on us. 3 mediocre teams mind you. So yeah, if we were really good in the shootout we'd be safely in a lower playoff spot But if we were just a couple/handful of games better? we would not be locked into a spot at all.

So even if we say that the coach plays no role in the shootout at all, even if we were better at it, that would not make us a good team. It would elevate us from a bad team to a mediocre team.

And we are giving Deboer props for that? That hypothetically we would be a mediocre team?

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

He may be a good coach but hes not the right coach for this team and that's been the case ever since 9 went home.

 

[joeskow]

Based on the way the team played this year.

If our players could score in the shootout, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

and how many shootouts would they have been in if they didn't blow the lead, especially late in the 3rd period?

 

[Tundra]

Bernier is a bust and Gionta is a dime a dozen AHL player.

Yet one is on the PP and the other is on the PK.

But are they really the prime reasons that this team is unsuccessful? Let's be serious here. It's a bad team with an above average coach, but that particular coach is the entirely wrong fit at this juncture of time.

 

[Tundra]

He may be a good coach but hes not the right coach for this team and that's been the case ever since 9 went home.

Agreed. A great coach adapts to his personnel and places them in the best position to succeed. Pete isn't a great coach and to be quite honest there isn't many in the league nowadays.

 

[R8Devs]

To be an above average coach you would have to be in the top 15 of coaches, I doubt Pdb with his track record is even there.


He probably would work well with Boston(who wouldn't?) but teams like Boston aren't hurting in the coaching department. After he gets fired here I could see him going to Toronto.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

But are they really the prime reasons that this team is unsuccessful? Let's be serious here. It's a bad team with an above average coach, but that particular coach is the entirely wrong fit at this juncture of time.

That response was in reference to a poster who said that Josefson was a dime-a-dozen forward and a bust - hence why he gets no playing time.

I just pointed out that Bernier is a bust and Gionta is a dime-a-dozen AHL player and both play prominent roles on this team.

 

[MartyOwns]

He gets benched for Stephen Gionta and Tim Sestito.

and rightfully so. when called upon, they have earned it. when JJ is called upon, he gets injured. thems the breaks.

 

[MartyOwns]

The only way I want him back is if Lou has a long sit down with him this summer and tells him, Larsson, Josefson, Merrill, and Gelinas absolutely need to be in the lineup every single night, no matter what.

there might be an easier way to remove player accountability, while at the same time giving up player spots to anyone who shows up with a birth certificate from 1995 or sooner.

hmmm...maybe not. what a ridiculous way to run a team

 

[devilsblood]

and rightfully so. when called upon, they have earned it. when JJ is called upon, he gets injured. thems the breaks.

Has Gio ever been injured?

When did Sestito earn more playing time?

 

[AfroThunder396]

What on Earth has Tim Sestito done to earn a roster spot?

 

[devilsblood]

To be an above average coach you would have to be in the top 15 of coaches, I doubt Pdb with his track record is even there.


He probably would work well with Boston(who wouldn't?) but teams like Boston aren't hurting in the coaching department. After he gets fired here I could see him going to Toronto.

Of coarse he has not earned "above average coach" status. He's missed the playoffs 5 of the 6 years he's been in the league.

 

[MartyOwns]

watch the games...sestito does something on every shift. usually throwing hits, sometimes crashing the crease. what else do you want for a bottom 6?

he hasn't earned a spot, but if we're injured and need someone in there, I'm picking sestito

 

[NJDevs26]

What on Earth has Tim Sestito done to earn a roster spot?

0 goals in 83 NHL games. Cam has three just this year

 

[MartyOwns]

0 goals in 83 NHL games. Cam has three just this year

points determining a 4th liners value is always a good route.

here's one- gionta has the same # of points as the heralded JJ. to be fair though, gionta has played in 6 more games.

 

[devilsblood]

watch the games...sestito does something on every shift. usually throwing hits, sometimes crashing the crease. what else do you want for a bottom 6?

he hasn't earned a spot, but if we're injured and need someone in there, I'm picking sestito

0 goals in 83 NHL games. Cam has three just this year

Seriously, I'm not even trying to hate on Sestito, but what is a 29 yr old guy who has never scored in the NHL bringing to this team?

 

[MartyOwns]

Seriously, I'm not even trying to hate on Sestito, but what is a 29 yr old guy who has never scored in the NHL bringing to this team?

I feel the same way about JJ! love the guy, but to make a point on this board you have to **** on a player...fault of the system.

TS plays a very PDB game...so he's in. It's pretty clear he likes to roll 4 lines, and the bottom 6 need to provide something intangible (energy?) and JJ doesn't seem to be that kind of player. still early though

 

[devilsblood]

I feel the same way about JJ! love the guy, but to make a point on this board you have to **** on a player...fault of the system.

TS plays a very PDB game...so he's in. It's pretty clear he likes to roll 4 lines, and the bottom 6 need to provide something intangible (energy?) and JJ doesn't seem to be that kind of player. still early though

I don't think 4th line players be solely intangible guys. I think we expect intangible only because they tend to be the cheapest contracts and thus least talented.

I also think given how grindy this team is otherwise, having very grindy fwds on the 4th is massive overkill in the grind dept.

Not to mention how many 30 yr old journeymen type guys we have.

Not to mention we are not a playoff team.

All this adds up to a guy like JJ should be playing. And he should be playing with guys who have some level of ability. And no doubt JJ needs to find ways to put points on the stat sheet, but would be nice if coach didn't put hurdles up in the way.

 

[MartyOwns]

I don't think 4th line players be solely intangible guys. I think we expect intangible only because they tend to be the cheapest contracts and thus least talented.

I also think given how grindy this team is otherwise, having very grindy fwds on the 4th is massive overkill in the grind dept.

Not to mention how many 30 yr old journeymen type guys we have.

Not to mention we are not a playoff team.

All this adds up to a guy like JJ should be playing. And he should be playing with guys who have some level of ability. And no doubt JJ needs to find ways to put points on the stat sheet, but would be nice if coach didn't put hurdles up in the way.

I don't really disagree with any of this...I'm just saying why guys like gionta 'thrive' in PDB's system. unless PDB can adapt to his players, or Lou changes the players and/or coach, you have to just accept that the grinders will get more playing time. and I'm glad they do, because they are able to play into PDBs system

 

[JimEIV]

DeBoer has constantly tried to put a fourth line together that he can roll out in most situations...When you stack the 4 line with young inexperienced players you inevitably have to shorten your bench in certain situations....That is fine if you have a strong top 6 but the Devils don't.

Not only do the Devils not have a strong top 6, but what they have on the top 6 looks like a senior citizen bus ride to Atlantic City....And those minutes need to be managed a little more carefully over the course of a full season. So you really can't have a situation where the 4th line gets shutdown completely like they might on some teams that can put out a Toews and Kane.

Deboer and this coaching staff have been playing a juggling game all season with the defense and the forwards...Managing minutes, creating favorable situation as possible for inadequate defenders, and making sure he doesn't violate the AARP agreement.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Until the offense gets completely retooled, you're not going to bring in a coach that is able to succeed. It's just going to be a vicious cycle of complaining and whining for the next coach to be fired. The Devils have one of the bottom 5 forward groups in the league. I don't care who you bring in, they aren't going to score. You can't compete in the current NHL like that.

 

[liquid1988]

From New Jersey Devils Blog on FB-

TG: Apparently DeBoer didn't feel some players were giving their all today. Mentioned them having day off yesterday. After he was done yelling, DeBoer left ice and slammed door on bench behind him.