Recalled/Assigned: The cuts are coming

[ottawah]

I think someone will take him at some point this season. RHD are hard to find, most of his salary is paid for this year and he's got lots of NHL experience. If guys like Josh Brown can find roles in the league, I think Zaitsev can find a landing spot or two as well..

If he cannot make our RHD roster, its hard to imagine he makes someone elses, especially with so many teams barely cap compliant, and those that have room are by and large not contenders.

 

[robsenz]

Sokolov looks like Bobby Ryan out there at times. He needs to lose 20 pounds and improve his skating or he will never make it

Sokolov has always looked like Stortini to me when he's skating around

 

[Micklebot]

If he cannot make our RHD roster, its hard to imagine he makes someone elses, especially with so many teams barely cap compliant, and those that have room are by and large not contenders.

His cap hit makes it unlikely that we can move him without including an asset, but a team that intends to tank will probably be convinced to take him on at a price should we want to go that route. We aren't shopping him to contenders

 

[BankStreetParade]

If he cannot make our RHD roster, its hard to imagine he makes someone elses, especially with so many teams barely cap compliant, and those that have room are by and large not contenders.

Guys like Josh Brown and others continue finding landing spots. Zaitsev isn't any worse than them so it shouldn't be crazy to see him get picked up somewhere.

 

[ottawah]

Guys like Josh Brown and others continue finding landing spots. Zaitsev isn't any worse than them so it shouldn't be crazy to see him get picked up somewhere.

1.3M vs 4.2M.

No Zaitsev is not worse, but he is hardly better and that a big chunk of free cap space for teams that can ill afford it.

 

[Larionov]

Re: Zaitsev - he does have a young child back home in Russia, if you recall the ugly custody battle stuff that hit the news a while back. That might draw him back home. Russian players also have a complicated love/hate relationship with the homeland - if anyone has ever seen the documentary "Red Army" on the rise (and partial fall) of the Soviet hockey program, the interviews with Fetisov are telling. He and his family were treated horribly by the old Soviet leadership, especially when he was trying to get to North America near the end, yet he ultimately returned to Russia to be a Minister under Putin, a former KGB agent. Some Russians just stay in North America once here, but a large number go back. Never underestimate the draw of "home" for anyone...

 

[Micklebot]

Guys like Josh Brown and others continue finding landing spots. Zaitsev isn't any worse than them so it shouldn't be crazy to see him get picked up somewhere.

If Zaitsev was a UFA willing to sign for 1.3 mil, maybe he finds a landing spot, but with a 4.5 cap hit?

 

[BankStreetParade]

If Zaitsev was a UFA willing to sign for 1.3 mil, maybe he finds a landing spot, but with a 4.5 cap hit?

I'm not saying it's going to be easy but there's always teams looking for RHD and with 25% retention it might be possible to get some sort of deal structure in place to make it happen. Injuries will hit, players will ask to get out of some situations, prospects will lag in development, etc. There's a million scenarios and I'm sure some GM out there thinks Zaitsev can play 1.5 seasons on some bottom feeder while they slowly develop their draft picks. Isn't it more or less what we did here with some of the names that came through? Maybe some of them didn't have such high cap hits but with 25% retention that won't matter to a lot of teams.

 

[Cosmix]

Re: Zaitsev - he does have a young child back home in Russia, if you recall the ugly custody battle stuff that hit the news a while back. That might draw him back home. Russian players also have a complicated love/hate relationship with the homeland - if anyone has ever seen the documentary "Red Army" on the rise (and partial fall) of the Soviet hockey program, the interviews with Fetisov are telling. He and his family were treated horribly by the old Soviet leadership, especially when he was trying to get to North America near the end, yet he ultimately returned to Russia to be a Minister under Putin, a former KGB agent. Some Russians just stay in North America once here, but a large number go back. Never underestimate the draw of "home" for anyone...

Family, language and culture are powerful attractions.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not saying it's going to be easy but there's always teams looking for RHD and with 25% retention it might be possible to get some sort of deal structure in place to make it happen. Injuries will hit, players will ask to get out of some situations, prospects will lag in development, etc. There's a million scenarios and I'm sure some GM out there thinks Zaitsev can play 1.5 seasons on some bottom feeder while they slowly develop their draft picks. Isn't it more or less what we did here with some of the names that came through? Maybe some of them didn't have such high cap hits but with 25% retention that won't matter to a lot of teams.

Even at 50% retention he's still over paid in terms of his cap hit, of course we can pay to have someone take him, it's a matter of whether or not it's worth doing. Leafs paid Carolina a 1st so that they would buy out Marleau, you can always dump a contract, but saying J.Brown got picked up so Zaitsev will is apples and oranges.

We need to clear room if we want to re-sign DeBrincat and Zub especially if we want to add a top 4 D, retaining on Zaitsev works against that. Even if we move him, we'll need to have someone at ~1+ mil to ride the bench as our 7th Dman, we don't save a lot of cap space if we start retaining

 

[ottawah]

Even at 50% retention he's still over paid in terms of his cap hit, of course we can pay to have someone take him, it's a matter of whether or not it's worth doing. Leafs paid Carolina a 1st so that they would buy out Marleau, you can always dump a contract, but saying J.Brown got picked up so Zaitsev will is apples and oranges.

We need to clear room if we want to re-sign DeBrincat and Zub especially if we want to add a top 4 D, retaining on Zaitsev works against that. Even if we move him, we'll need to have someone at ~1+ mil to ride the bench as our 7th Dman, we don't save a lot of cap space if we start retaining

Agreed, but the general expectation is the cap will be going up starting next year and perhaps by substantial amounts. 22M is probably a floor of our cap. 9M for Debrincat. Several forwards requierd, but aside from Formenton they are likely to be lower end. One goalie. I think we are fine. Year after is Sanderson but cap should go up enough to manage that. Its tight, but yeah I wouldn't start retaining on Zaitsev quite yet, makes little sense.

Not sure it makes sense to lop off an asset to get rid of him either. Right now it would be a first in all likelihood. I'd sooner wait the year when the cost would be lower.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Agreed, but the general expectation is the cap will be going up starting next year and perhaps by substantial amounts. 22M is probably a floor of our cap. 9M for Debrincat. Several forwards requierd, but aside from Formenton they are likely to be lower end. One goalie. I think we are fine. Year after is Sanderson but cap should go up enough to manage that. Its tight, but yeah I wouldn't start retaining on Zaitsev quite yet, makes little sense.

Not sure it makes sense to lop off an asset to get rid of him either. Right now it would be a first in all likelihood. I'd sooner wait the year when the cost would be lower.

No it’s not going up substantially next year, Friedman reported that the NHL said last week. NHL current projections.

Next year 83.5
Year after 86.5-87
Year after 92

 

[Ice-Tray]

Even at 50% retention he's still over paid in terms of his cap hit, of course we can pay to have someone take him, it's a matter of whether or not it's worth doing. Leafs paid Carolina a 1st so that they would buy out Marleau, you can always dump a contract, but saying J.Brown got picked up so Zaitsev will is apples and oranges.

We need to clear room if we want to re-sign DeBrincat and Zub especially if we want to add a top 4 D, retaining on Zaitsev works against that. Even if we move him, we'll need to have someone at ~1+ mil to ride the bench as our 7th Dman, we don't save a lot of cap space if we start retaining

We could probably pay his signing bonus next summer and then trade him without penalty or retention.

No point in giving up an asset this season unless they have to get his salary off the books at all cost (which might be the case).

Certainly if we were bringing in 4million we may want to remove 4 as well (cap hit), but we don’t need to to be compliant at this time.

Zaitsev can be 7th D or in Belleville for the season instead I should think.

 

[TheNewEra]

Well zaistev didn't get sent down

If he is in the lineup and the rest of our defenceman are healthy then DJ needs to go

 

[JackieDaytona]

Chabot
Zub
Sanderson
Hamonic
Brannstrom
Holden
——-
JBD
Thomson
Zaitsev

In my view is how the D should be lined up. If Zaitsev stays as 7 d and JBD and lassi go down to take prime minutes in the ahl, that’s probably wise imo. But zaitsev should not see gametime ice.

I think brann had a weak start, then a stellar game followed by a solid if not spectacular finish to preseason. He showed he belonged anyway, and is the best option of what we looked at. Was nice to see him play rd too and not flounder, some versatility that might help during the season with injuries or different matchups.

Kastelic should have the 4c spot, brassard also showed he could belong and is versatile for injuries. Gambrell is the least impressive of the 3 imo, but he wasn’t bad especially in todays game imo. Not really a bad decision to be made, just better ones from this options- keep 2 of 3.

Excited to see the lineup!

Where will Stu and Norris slot?

 

[robsenz]

Torn on Brassard. He's had some good moments during the preseason. But his work ethic is hands down the worst of anyone in the group. He still gives up on plays, but can make a play still. Him being the extra forward would be nice, but he doesn't really fit the tenacious style the team is going for.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Torn on Brassard. He's had some good moments during the preseason. But his work ethic is hands down the worst of anyone in the group. He still gives up on plays, but can make a play still. Him being the extra forward would be nice, but he doesn't really fit the tenacious style the team is going for.

Didn’t see that personally, but wasn’t watching for it. I felt that he was pretty good all through camp and can clearly play with skilled players.

I agree though, I want him on the team on the one hand, but also don’t really know who doesn’t make it to make space. Gambrel looked good tonight as well and has his strengths as a bottom six guy as well.

Kastelic is making it harder and harder to send back, especially since he’s upped the physicality to force the issue. To me it comes down to him and how the organization views what’s best for his development.

 

[playasRus]

No cuts because multiple players on the teams got the runs?

 

[JD1]

Didn’t see that personally, but wasn’t watching for it. I felt that he was pretty good all through camp and can clearly play with skilled players.

I agree though, I want him on the team on the one hand, but also don’t really know who doesn’t make it to make space. Gambrel looked good tonight as well and has his strengths as a bottom six guy as well.

Kastelic is making it harder and harder to send back, especially since he’s upped the physicality to force the issue. To me it comes down to him and how the organization views what’s best for his development.

Wasn't really watching for it. That's kind of the story of this board.

Take Brannstrom. All kinds of guys zeroing in on every mistake made. Confirmation bias. He played almost 20 minutes a night last year. He played pp1 and the most minutes while Chabot was out for a long stretch. The stretch was winning hockey too. That's just a fact.

Take Zaitsev. Most here hate him. In the gdt last night it was pointed out that 22 was on the ice for that first goal against. He was. But the goal was Caufield on the PP with a top shelf short side rocket. Not Zaitsev's fault at all. Zaitsev killed a bunch of penalties last year. He and Holden led the team in pk ice time and the pk was the only thing the team did last year in the top half of the league. He doesn't move the puck well, but he isn't going to hurt you really as a 3rd pair guy that PKs.

None of the cuts are surprising. JBD and Thomson get a little more seasoning. Zaitsev hangs around and is in and out of the lineup. Probably stays that way too on the first injury on the D. One of the kids comes up and Zaitsev is still doing spot duty.

 

[thesensguy]

“Take Zaitsev. Most here hate him. In the gdt last night it was pointed out that 22 was on the ice for that first goal against. He was. But the goal was Caufield on the PP with a top shelf short side rocket. Not Zaitsev's fault at all. Zaitsev killed a bunch of penalties last year. He and Holden led the team in pk He doesn't move the puck well, but he isn't going to hurt you really as a 3rd pair guy that PKs.”

This is just not true. Zaitsev is an offensive black hole, and also cannot defend. Every minute he’s on the ice is a minute the ice tilts in favour of our opponents. We can’t continue having this laissez-faire approach if we want to have a team capable of making the playoffs.

 

[JD1]

This is just not true. Zaitsev is an offensive black hole, and also cannot defend. Every minute he’s on the ice is a minute the ice tilts in favour of our opponents. We can’t continue having this laissez-faire approach if we want to have a team capable of making the playoffs.

Zaitsev defends quite well. He just doesn't move the puck well when he wins battles. Most of the minutes Zaitsev has played the past few seasons have been against top lines and ya the ice was tilted against us. Guys here say that whoever plays with Zaitsev their stats go down. That's true. It's also true that whoever plays with Zaitsev sees harder competition. Last year was the start of a turnover where Zub was playing equally or more of the hardest minutes. What I said was Zaitsev wouldn't hurt us in a 3rd pair role. That would have him mostly against less talented opposition than he's ever seen in his career and still playing some pk. That's not going to hurt us.

 

[Micklebot]

Zaitsev defends quite well. He just doesn't move the puck well when he wins battles. Most of the minutes Zaitsev has played the past few seasons have been against top lines and ya the ice was tilted against us. Guys here say that whoever plays with Zaitsev their stats go down. That's true. It's also true that whoever plays with Zaitsev sees harder competition. Last year was the start of a turnover where Zub was playing equally or more of the hardest minutes. What I said was Zaitsev wouldn't hurt us in a 3rd pair role. That would have him mostly against less talented opposition than he's ever seen in his career and still playing some pk. That's not going to hurt us.

Idk, I guess it depends on what you mean by not going to hurt us. I feel like Zaitsev is at best a 3rd pair Dman at this stage, he can do it but ideally you want someone better.

Imo, Holden playing his offside is better (with Brannstrom on the left), I think JBD had a better camp too. So putting Zaitsev there instead of one of them imo hurts us.

Add on to that his salary considerations and he's definitely hurting us, it's just the question of what hurts more, paying to dump him or keeping him around.

 

[JD1]

Idk, I guess it depends on what you mean by not going to hurt us. I feel like Zaitsev is at best a 3rd pair Dman at this stage, he can do it but ideally you want someone better.

Imo, Holden playing his offside is better (with Brannstrom on the left), I think JBD had a better camp too. So putting Zaitsev there instead of one of them imo hurts us.

Add on to that his salary considerations and he's definitely hurting us, it's just the question of what hurts more, paying to dump him or keeping him around.

We've never really seen Zaitsev in a 3rd pair role. There's a huge difference between defending against the Tkachuk's of the league versus the Kelly's. What we've seen is Zaitsev defending against the Tkachuk's of the league and becoming less capable over time.

Holden is no spring chicken. He most likely shouldn't be playing 82 games at 20 minutes a night either.

How I see this is

If healthy, will play
Chabot
Zub
Sanderson
Brannstrom
Hamonic

Rotating in and out and partially dependent on how Sanderson handles pk duty
Zaitsev
Holden
JBD
Thomson

We'll be lucky to get 320 games played out of the first group. That leaves 172 games out of the bottom group and if we're really lucky, we never have to get to the point of dressing a #10 D guy.

If the objective is meaningful games in March yet still developing, then Brannstrom, Sanderson, JBD and Thomson need to play meaningful games to develop.

If that development is progressing well, it'll mean less time for all of Hamonic, Holden and Zaitsev.

 

[Micklebot]

We've never really seen Zaitsev in a 3rd pair role. There's a huge difference between defending against the Tkachuk's of the league versus the Kelly's. What we've seen is Zaitsev defending against the Tkachuk's of the league and becoming less capable over time.

Holden is no spring chicken. He most likely shouldn't be playing 82 games at 20 minutes a night either.

How I see this is

If healthy, will play
Chabot
Zub
Sanderson
Brannstrom
Hamonic

Rotating in and out and partially dependent on how Sanderson handles pk duty
Zaitsev
Holden
JBD
Thomson

We'll be lucky to get 320 games played out of the first group. That leaves 172 games out of the bottom group and if we're really lucky, we never have to get to the point of dressing a #10 D guy.

If the objective is meaningful games in March yet still developing, then Brannstrom, Sanderson, JBD and Thomson need to play meaningful games to develop.

If that development is progressing well, it'll mean less time for all of Hamonic, Holden and Zaitsev.

We actually have seen Zaitsev in a third pair role for about a quarter of last season after picking up Hamonic. He didn't fair particularly well in that role either, though I'd probably give that he was better than J.Brown and that they did still deploy him in a defensive role.

I don't think anybody is asking for Holden to play 20 mins a night, no clue where that's coming from, I expect him to be on the third pair to start the year and be pushed down to the 7th D if/when one of JBD or Thomson cracks the roster.

I do think Zaitsev does bring some usefulness on the PK, but Zub and Hamonic can handle that in his absence. On the left side, Holden is the sure thing, Sanderson will get his reps, and Brannstrom has done surprisingly well in the PK mins he's gotten. I think we can manage without Zaitsev, but I suppose time will tell.

 

[JD1]

We actually have seen Zaitsev in a third pair role for about a quarter of last season after picking up Hamonic. He didn't fair particularly well in that role either, though I'd probably give that he was better than J.Brown and that they did still deploy him in a defensive role.

I don't think anybody is asking for Holden to play 20 mins a night, no clue where that's coming from, I expect him to be on the third pair to start the year and be pushed down to the 7th D if/when one of JBD or Thomson cracks the roster.

I do think Zaitsev does bring some usefulness on the PK, but Zub and Hamonic can handle that in his absence. On the left side, Holden is the sure thing, Sanderson will get his reps, and Brannstrom has done surprisingly well in the PK mins he's gotten. I think we can manage without Zaitsev, but I suppose time will tell.

It's not an issue of managing with or without Zaitsev

Let me put it another way. In order for this team to continue to progress towards being a sustained playoff team, we need to

Manage minutes down for Zaitsev, Holden and Hamonic
Manage minutes up for Sanderson, Brannstrom, JBD and Thomson

Injuries, development, win loss record, back to backs all play in to deployment

Anyway, we're a heck of a lot deeper than we were last year.