The Core Has To Go

[ToneDog]

Can you imagine how awesome the sport would be if only 75% of your salary is in stone. The other 25% is PO results based. Probably the way it should be but they would argue that if you drafted to a bad team the players would just leave all the time.

You just can't win.

I was thinking to make the regular season meaningful, players only earn 50,60,70%?? of their salaries with the rest going into a playoff pool and split among the playoff teams with the SC winner getting the largest share of the pie, the SC finalist the next highest and down the line. We'd win the SC for the next 10 years with 16 and 34 leading the charge.

As it stands, the regular season is a money grab and 80% a waste of time.

 

[MCR74]

All I know is the core stinks. Running it back yet again will only lead to disappointment.

 

[Gabriel426]

They executed the tank well. After drafting 88,16 and 34, signing Tavares was an end to the "rebuild" and they have been trying to surround them with the right supporting cast. The beginning of the end was the hiring of Dubas.

I don’t think they had ever got into the rebuild stage, they tank and got lucky with not just MM and AM but also guys like Hyman, Brown, Leivo, Kap, AJ, and to certain extend Zaistlev too. Their mistake was not doing rebuild by trading Bozak, JVR, Leo and Jake for picks but instead trading picks for 4th line C and signing Marleau thinking he will teach the guys how to be a proper pro and leadership.
Marleau certainly did a number to AM and MM in terms of how to be a pro who never wins the Cup.

 

[Gabriel426]

I was thinking to make the regular season meaningful, players only earn 50,60,70%?? of their salaries with the rest going into a playoff pool and split among the playoff teams with the SC winner getting the largest share of the pie, the SC finalist the next highest and down the line. We'd win the SC for the next 10 years with 16 and 34 leading the charge.

As it stands, the regular season is a money grab and 80% a waste of time.

The league itself should have bonus to playoff teams based on results like Champions League in Euro Football. Where not only there is prize money for each stage/round but also the revenue from TV. Also another thing is prize money for your finishing in the regular season, like if you finish first like the Bruins, you get prize money plus more cap space for next season. Teams will be fighting to finish a spot higher in the standings in order to get a few million more in their cap space.
Would never happen though bc non playoffs team owners will be crying fouls

 

[the Mighty Oak]

I don’t think they had ever got into the rebuild stage, they tank and got lucky with not just MM and AM but also guys like Hyman, Brown, Leivo, Kap, AJ, and to certain extend Zaistlev too. Their mistake was not doing rebuild by trading Bozak, JVR, Leo and Jake for picks but instead trading picks for 4th line C and signing Marleau thinking he will teach the guys how to be a proper pro and leadership.
Marleau certainly did a number to AM and MM in terms of how to be a pro who never wins the Cup.

 

[Racer88]

I know some believe that but I don't think it's true at all.

I lean towards that sentiment. It seems the minute the games get tough and the opposition manhandles them they they retreat.
Do they not care enough or are just not mentally prepared to push back?
Probably questions I will never get an answer to

 

[ACC1224]

I lean towards that sentiment. It seems the minute the games get tough and the opposition manhandles them they they retreat.
Do they not care enough or are just not mentally prepared to push back?
Probably questions I will never get an answer to

They need to be better no doubt but I don't think it's from not caring. In some instances, particularly with Marner it looks like he cares too much and that gets in his head. You don't want Marner thinking, he's best when he just plays.

 

[ToneDog]

I lean towards that sentiment. It seems the minute the games get tough and the opposition manhandles them they they retreat.
Do they not care enough or are just not mentally prepared to push back?
Probably questions I will never get an answer to

If you brought a knife to a gunfight, you would retreat as well. I know I would. Playoff hockey is not in their DNA. They can buy the fancy houses, and cars, but they can't buy killer instinct.

 

[GoonieFace]

I know some believe that but I don't think it's true at all.

So if they do indeed care, than they just suck. Either way is not ideal

 

[ACC1224]

So if they do indeed care, than they just suck. Either way is not ideal

It obviously hasn't been ideal. I believe the coaching and environment that Dubas built was the biggest problem.

 

[myleafs]

At this point, I'm like Pavlov's dog. Pre-conditioned to expect failure. Looking at successful NHL teams and there is a clear method of constructing your roster.

The Leafs obviously haven't figured it out yet.

This

 

[myleafs]

I know some believe that but I don't think it's true at all.

yea I agree, I think they give a shit but they dont understand what it takes to go far so they think they are working hard which they are but not hard or smart enough. Like Maurice said about the Panthers heading into next season..."now they know what it takes...we wont have to try to keep driving it into them what is needed" Unfortunately our guys havent gotten far enough to understand this.

If you brought a knife to a gunfight, you would retreat as well. I know I would. Playoff hockey is not in their DNA. They can buy the fancy houses, and cars, but they can't buy killer instinct.

Good analogy

 

[Gabriel426]

I lean towards that sentiment. It seems the minute the games get tough and the opposition manhandles them they they retreat.
Do they not care enough or are just not mentally prepared to push back?
Probably questions I will never get an answer to

I find it hard to believe that guys with top talents like AM, MM, JT and Willie don’t want to win or care to win.
I just think they are uncomfortable when the oppositions play them tough and instead of fighting through they look at others to fight through it.
And it goes back to the question, are they Pippen and Rodman- great complimentary players or are they Jordan, GOAT and also someone who lead when the going get tough.

It obviously hasn't been ideal. I believe the coaching and environment that Dubas built was the biggest problem.

Let’s say that’s the reason, will they listen to a different voice and collectively play differently?

 

[francis246]

If you brought a knife to a gunfight, you would retreat as well. I know I would. Playoff hockey is not in their DNA. They can buy the fancy houses, and cars, but they can't buy killer instinct.

I hate how you always try to paint our players as completely different/less modest than others around the league. Most of our Leafs don’t even live in fancy houses or drive crazy cars. They live very similar lifestyles or maybe even more modest lifestyles than others around the league.

Pretty sure Crosby’s house is more fancy and expensive than any of the Maple Leaf players houses/Condos. McDavids house is also insane in Edmonton. It has nothing to do with anything and it’s annoying to continually see you try and use things in their personal life as some sort of metric that matters. Screams jealousy/resentment lol.

One thing I will agree on is they don’t have that ‘DAWG in em’ or Killer instinct.

 

[ACC1224]

I find it hard to believe that guys with top talents like AM, MM, JT and Willie don’t want to win or care to win.
I just think they are uncomfortable when the oppositions play them tough and instead of fighting through they look at others to fight through it.
And it goes back to the question, are they Pippen and Rodman- great complimentary players or are they Jordan, GOAT and also someone who lead when the going get tough.


Let’s say that’s the reason, will they listen to a different voice and collectively play differently?

Same voice but a different environment and approach to the game.
Players have been coached all their lives, I would assume they would listen.

 

[Gabriel426]

Same voice but a different environment and approach to the game.
Players have been coached all their lives, I would assume they would listen.

Babs and Keefe, Lou and Dubas and now Treliving.
How many coaches and GMs need to change before getting the message across?
Most importantly, what is the message that needed them to understand that haven’t been said?

 

[ACC1224]

Babs and Keefe, Lou and Dubas and now Treliving.
How many coaches and GMs need to change before getting the message across?
Most importantly, what is the message that needed them to understand that haven’t been said?

Babcock and Lou have been gone for a while now, the team is in a different place than it was then.

It could be one more Coach that needs changing if he can't get them to follow a different path. IMO, Keefe should have been gone a while ago but Treliving must feel that Keefe has bought in to his vision for the team. I imagine it's a pretty short leash.

I'm not privy to what the message would be. You don't feel a new GM will want the team to play his way and bring in players to that will?

 

[Gabriel426]

Babcock and Lou have been gone for a while now, the team is in a different place than it was then.

It could be one more Coach that needs changing if he can't get them to follow a different path. IMO, Keefe should have been gone a while ago but Treliving must feel that Keefe has bought in to his vision for the team. I imagine it's a pretty short leash.

I'm not privy to what the message would be. You don't feel a new GM will want the team to play his way and bring in players to that will?

Dubas pretty much changed the structure of his team bc when you compare how he constructed his team a few yrs ago and this past TDL.
The latest version of the team is the first time that we saw the Leafs out hitting their opponents and playing as a pact in the playoffs. Then 2nd round came around and the team just went back to their old self.
I don’t think a new GM could do much unless he changes the core. It is like a chef, you can’t ask a chef to make you steak if the ingredients he got is fish. The chef can work around with sides and sauces (role players and supporting players) but there is no way he can make fish to taste like steak.
At the end, will the big four but in and change their ways. Will they understand that their lack of productions in the playoffs due to their style of play is a main reason why they couldn’t advance or will they look at Eichel and think, if only others are better and lead the way then I can just play my own game and be comfortable just like Eichel with Vegas.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas pretty much changed the structure of his team bc when you compare how he constructed his team a few yrs ago and this past TDL.
The latest version of the team is the first time that we saw the Leafs out hitting their opponents and playing as a pact in the playoffs. Then 2nd round came around and the team just went back to their old self.
I don’t think a new GM could do much unless he changes the core. It is like a chef, you can’t ask a chef to make you steak if the ingredients he got is fish. The chef can work around with sides and sauces (role players and supporting players) but there is no way he can make fish to taste like steak.
At the end, will the big four but in and change their ways. Will they understand that their lack of productions in the playoffs due to their style of play is a main reason why they couldn’t advance or will they look at Eichel and think, if only others are better and lead the way then I can just play my own game and be comfortable just like Eichel with Vegas.

They changed some players but it still looked like the same strategy.

 

[Racer88]

They need to be better no doubt but I don't think it's from not caring. In some instances, particularly with Marner it looks like he cares too much and that gets in his head. You don't want Marner thinking, he's best when he just plays.

Ya it sure looks like Mitch needs a sports shrink.

Babs and Keefe, Lou and Dubas and now Treliving.
How many coaches and GMs need to change before getting the message across?
Most importantly, what is the message that needed them to understand that haven’t been said?

I would like to have seen a strict tough structured coach like Babcock that wasn’t sneaky and greasy but treated them tough but fair

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I hate how you always try to paint our players as completely different/less modest than others around the league. Most of our Leafs don’t even live in fancy houses or drive crazy cars. They live very similar lifestyles or maybe even more modest lifestyles than others around the league.

Pretty sure Crosby’s house is more fancy and expensive than any of the Maple Leaf players houses/Condos. McDavids house is also insane in Edmonton. It has nothing to do with anything and it’s annoying to continually see you try and use things in their personal life as some sort of metric that matters. Screams jealousy/resentment lol.

One thing I will agree on is they don’t have that ‘DAWG in em’ or Killer instinct.

I agree. Nothing wrong with enjoying the trappings of success. Why wouldn't you? That said, boys got the money, now they need to EARN IT when it counts.

 

[Burkeocet]

So if they do indeed care, then they just suck. Either way is not ideal

It’s not that they “don’t care”, it’s just that they don’t hate losing enough to dig deep. They’re not willing to go to the dirty areas and when the tempo picks up, they’re fine with being the hammer and not the nail every time.

These guys are paid to be différence makers but the only differences they make are against the salary cap. There’s no team buy in and there’s no guys in their top 6 that will even take a hit to make a play or do anything but float on the perimeter and try fancy plays.

It’s pathetic this group is still together. I’m much more angry about this team than any other time and I’ve been a fan for 25+ years. This group is pathetic and greedy too. F em. They desperately need a shakeup

 

[Mentat]

As each day goes by, i´m becoming more certain that the core and Keefe will be back next year.
I truly hope i´m wrong.

 

[MCR74]

I agree. Nothing wrong with enjoying the trappings of success. Why wouldn't you? That said, boys got the money, now they need to EARN IT when it counts.

Maybe if Marner wouldn't post his trappings on social media the morning following elimination, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Maybe if Marner wouldn't post his trappings on social media the morning following elimination, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

He is a bit tone deaf for sure. It's a sign of his immaturity.