The Core Has To Go

[Funk21]

The team has been a disappointment to put it mildly. They just don’t have it and while Dubas has moved heaven and earth to keep them together and do Cap Gymnastics putting together version after version of this group they just are winners or the type of players who hate losing more than they like winning. They are regular season superstars and that just doesn’t cut it.

Both AM and Nylander are eligible for contract extensions this summer and it’s my belief that both should be traded because trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Do we again tear it down to the studs or do we keep some players?
IMO Trade:
Am
Nylander
JT-but I don’t think anybody would take him unfortunately
Lafferty
Murray-even if it’s for a coke machine
Brodie

Honestly if we can get Bedard or Fantilli or a player like Byfield plus for AM I do it. I even look at trading him to Zona to get a boatload of picks. We are up against the cap and can’t build a proper team With the type of money AM and Nylander are likely looking for. The great thing is some other team likely is willing to pay a kings ransom for them. This is not an overreaction this core sucks.

Keep
Marner
Reilly
Samsonov
Woll
Liljegren
Timmins
Knies

Click to read more...

 

[Antropovsky]

The team has been a disappointment to put it mildly. They just don’t have it and while Dubas has moved heaven and earth to keep them together and do Cap Gymnastics putting together version after version of this group they just are winners or the type of players who hate losing more than they like winning. They are regular season superstars and that just doesn’t cut it.

Both AM and Nylander are eligible for contract extensions this summer and it’s my belief that both should be traded because trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Do we again tear it down to the studs or do we keep some players?
IMO Trade:
Am
Nylander
JT-but I don’t think anybody would take him unfortunately
Lafferty
Murray-even if it’s for a coke machine
Brodie

Honestly if we can get Bedard or Fantilli or a player like Byfield plus for AM I do it. I even look at trading him to Zona to get a boatload of picks. We are up against the cap and can’t build a proper team With the type of money AM and Nylander are likely looking for. The great thing is some other team likely is willing to pay a kings ransom for them. This is not an overreaction this core sucks.

Keep
Marner
Reilly
Samsonov
Woll
Liljegren
Timmins
Knies

Lol keep Marner... Yeah keep the soft, small, mentally fragile, perimeter player who looks like a 3rd liner in the playoffs and is a top 5 paid NHL player.

 

[GreytWun]

The team has been a disappointment to put it mildly. They just don’t have it and while Dubas has moved heaven and earth to keep them together and do Cap Gymnastics putting together version after version of this group they just are winners or the type of players who hate losing more than they like winning. They are regular season superstars and that just doesn’t cut it.

Both AM and Nylander are eligible for contract extensions this summer and it’s my belief that both should be traded because trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Do we again tear it down to the studs or do we keep some players?
IMO Trade:
Am
Nylander
JT-but I don’t think anybody would take him unfortunately
Lafferty
Murray-even if it’s for a coke machine
Brodie

Honestly if we can get Bedard or Fantilli or a player like Byfield plus for AM I do it. I even look at trading him to Zona to get a boatload of picks. We are up against the cap and can’t build a proper team With the type of money AM and Nylander are likely looking for. The great thing is some other team likely is willing to pay a kings ransom for them. This is not an overreaction this core sucks.

Keep
Marner
Reilly
Samsonov
Woll
Liljegren
Timmins
Knies

Matthews, a guy that has cracked 85+ points once, the guy that isn’t a PPG player in the playoffs for Bedard ? Lol

 

[rielledup]

There's no way a team trades Bedard for Matthews. That being said, if a team like Arizona is willing to give you a big haul for Matthews you have to take it.

The Leafs are limited in their ability to make major changes outside of the core and continuing to nibble around the edges isn't going to make enough of a difference. I fear that what will end up happening is some sort of half measure like trading Nylander, as if whatever you get in return for Nylander will turn this team into a legit contender.

What do the Leafs have to lose by starting over? Atleast this time they should have a big head start on the rebuild with the young players/prospects they get from trading Marner Matthews and Nylander.

 

[horner]

It will be a leaf thing to do .
The next three games will be there best games 3 - 3 series tied game at home .
Game 7 no show we lose.
Nothing is done in the offseason because that is what we do.

Seattle put up 7 on Dallas, they have no stars
Just a hard working team

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I wouldn't gut the team unless Matthews and Nylander say they're not re-signing. At that point, you're sort of pushed into doing it anyway and it's time to find the best deals on the market.

Assuming everyone wants to stay, they need to move one of Marner/Tavares and re-tool the roster with the acquired asset(s) + cap space. I would imagine Tavares is going nowhere, so you move Marner.

I don't think the solution is in gutting the team though. You don't want to go so far back in frustration that you're left sitting out of the playoffs with a mish-mash of assets.

Instead, you change the coach and you remove one core piece + other supplementary pieces to redistribute the cap space.

 

[Funk21]

Lol keep Marner... Yeah keep the soft, small, mentally fragile, perimeter player who looks like a 3rd liner in the playoffs and is a top 5 paid NHL player.

Marner has been there best player this playoffs. Giving a $#it vs. Being mentally fragile is two different things. The guy bleeds blue and white and that’s worth having.

 

[SoVi3t]

I still think Matthews is playing injured right now. And it'd be crazy to get rid of him.

While healthy, Marner and Nylander do NOT show up in playoffs. At all. Even during the regular season they're streaky as hell. Nylander is gonna want too much on his next contract, Mitch has to go though.

Tavares needs to be demoted to less important roles, he's getting older and it shows you can't be playing him maximum time on the ice anymore against 20 year old determined NHLers. I still want him to retire in the blue and white.

 

[RAM]

the most important thing is cap space, you need to build a well rounded team with 4 good lines that takes a balanced approach in allocating cap dollars I would only keep Mathews if he is willing to sign with little or no increase the rest need to go especially the small perimeter players

 

[Primary Assist]

Shanny, Dubas, and Keefe probably both go this summer and new management will probably want to take one last crack at things with the core right now before shaking things up. Personally I don't think it will be enough though, we've taken 7 cracks at it with this core and have one playoff round victory to show for it. Of course I'm treating the Florida series as a foregone conclusion here.

It's going to be a real shame to see guys like Matthews and Marner leave though. They're probably the best 2 Leafs in the post expansion era and were drafted and developed here but the core just couldn't get it done. I won't miss JT in the slightest though. Seems like a great guy, scored the biggest goal in Cap era history for the team, but is basically unplayable at even strength and is paid like a top 10 player in the league when I honestly don't know if he would crack the top 50.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Rielly shouldn't be going anywhere.

Tavares is going to be here for 2 more seasons, regardless of whether we want him here or hate that he's here. Can't trade him, can't buy him out. He's just here here, period. We need to accept that and move on.

Matthews, Nylander, okay maybe sure.

Marner... I personally want him here, but I know that's a controversial take.

So "shaking up the core" basically means trading Matthews or Nylander (on the last year of their contracts) or Marner (two years left).

 

[Michoulicious]

Get Bedard or Fantilli for Matthews? lol keep dreaming

 

[Dragao6]

The worse part is that I’ve stopped looking forward to next year now

Just a brutal situation

 

[lanceuppercut75]

the most important thing is cap space, you need to build a well rounded team with 4 good lines that takes a balanced approach in allocating cap dollars

Too late. We signed Tavares with a full No Movement Clause and structured his contract so that doing a buyout on it doesn't help us with the salary cap.

 

[BallardEra]

I'd look at moving on from Tavares and Marner.

 

[Anthrax442]

Marner has been there best player this playoffs. Giving a $#it vs. Being mentally fragile is two different things. The guy bleeds blue and white and that’s worth having.

No he hasnt. He coasted through the first round and he has been atrocious in the second.

 

[United35]

I’m starting to understand why we’re the most despised team around. The sun comes up and we complain about it. It’s too bright, it’s too hot, it ruined my begonias.

I can’t wait for the reverse sweep.

 

[BallardEra]

The way the big guns blamed crummy luck sounded eerily reminiscent of the Montreal series or the Columbus series or….

"A couple posts. Stuff's just not falling, but just can't get discouraged. Gotta keep pushing. Keep putting our work before everything else and just believe and have faith in each other that we’re going to break through," Matthews said. "It's do-or-die now."

And later: "Sometimes it goes in. Sometimes it doesn’t."

Added Marner: "I don’t think we can get frustrated. We just have to stick to our abilities. Once you get frustrated, things don’t go well for you at all.

"We’ve had our looks. Just hasn’t gone for us."

"But gotta forget about it quickly. Be pissed off. Now it’s do or die."
Questions about character and heart and cap structure and the futures of the general manager, the head coach, and the star-studded core will all be raised over the next 48 hours.

"I mean, it sucks," Marner said.

 

[Eye Test]

Has anyone truly been worth their contract value on the leafs?

Maybe schenn orielly Accari knies and surprisingly the 4th lines been great.

So basically all the new guys from other culture teams and our 4th line who is the least skilled line. I see a common trend…just work hard and play hard and good things happen. (Seattle)

3 of the top 5/10 paid players in the league haven’t earned it.

 

[Orfieus]

If Matthews is not willing to resign this off season he has to be traded
Trade Marner, the fact OP want to keep him is absolutely crazy
Keep in mind both AM and MM have a full NMC starting next year

Rielly is cool
No one will want JT (and I truly believe JT will never, ever, agree to be traded)
As for Nylander I think that really depends on the return but I don't think trading him is a priority

edit: oh TJ Brodie has to go don't really care for the return

I really hope Toronto starts a retool with their new GM

 

[Niagara Bill]

The team has been a disappointment to put it mildly. They just don’t have it and while Dubas has moved heaven and earth to keep them together and do Cap Gymnastics putting together version after version of this group they just are winners or the type of players who hate losing more than they like winning. They are regular season superstars and that just doesn’t cut it.

Both AM and Nylander are eligible for contract extensions this summer and it’s my belief that both should be traded because trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Do we again tear it down to the studs or do we keep some players?
IMO Trade:
Am
Nylander
JT-but I don’t think anybody would take him unfortunately
Lafferty
Murray-even if it’s for a coke machine
Brodie

Honestly if we can get Bedard or Fantilli or a player like Byfield plus for AM I do it. I even look at trading him to Zona to get a boatload of picks. We are up against the cap and can’t build a proper team With the type of money AM and Nylander are likely looking for. The great thing is some other team likely is willing to pay a kings ransom for them. This is not an overreaction this core sucks.

Keep
Marner
Reilly
Samsonov
Woll
Liljegren
Timmins
Knies

I can support this, unless we discover AM is seriously injured ALL year. He has stopped skating and his shot is missing. He was an elite, superstar...worth his pay...today he plays like an uninterested overpaid troubled or manipulative man.

 

[TonsofPuppies]

Has anyone truly been worth their contract value on the leafs?

Maybe schenn orielly Accari knies and surprisingly the 4th lines been great.

So basically all the new guys from other culture teams and our 4th line who is the least skilled line. I see a common trend…just work hard and play hard and good things happen. (Seattle)

3 of the top 5/10 paid players in the league haven’t earned it.

Ironically, Nylander. Say what you want about his streakiness and his compete level, the guy is still a 40 goal, PPG player for under $7 million.

Matthews and Marner have never been worth their contracts. I remember thinking back in 2017 that this core had the potential to be the next Chicago Blackhawks, with Matthews being our Toews and Marner being our Kane. It's hilarious how both players received more than their Blackhawks counterparts, despite those Blackhawks counterparts having three Stanley Cups under their belts, as well as each individually winning the Conn Smythe, when we hadn't won a single round yet.

Our players have been given everything, despite earning nothing. It's no wonder they are the way they are. Entitlement is one of the main reasons society at large is such a mess these days and it runs rampant through MLSE, top to bottom. Burn it down.

 

[LeafGrief]

The way the big guns blamed crummy luck sounded eerily reminiscent of the Montreal series or the Columbus series or….

"A couple posts. Stuff's just not falling, but just can't get discouraged. Gotta keep pushing. Keep putting our work before everything else and just believe and have faith in each other that we’re going to break through," Matthews said. "It's do-or-die now."

And later: "Sometimes it goes in. Sometimes it doesn’t."

Added Marner: "I don’t think we can get frustrated. We just have to stick to our abilities. Once you get frustrated, things don’t go well for you at all.

"We’ve had our looks. Just hasn’t gone for us."

"But gotta forget about it quickly. Be pissed off. Now it’s do or die."
Questions about character and heart and cap structure and the futures of the general manager, the head coach, and the star-studded core will all be raised over the next 48 hours.

"I mean, it sucks," Marner said.

It’s funny how they lie to themselves. Keep putting their work first? What work? I tried harder on some of my post game posts than Marner does in elimination games.

 

[Stinger8]

I only sign Mathews if he accepts a reasonable contract. If he wants more than McKinnon or McDavid he has to go on principal. Over paying him and his side kick have put a huge clamp on the ability to win post season. I move Marner this off season. If both go so be it, huge cap space and a good GM (not Dubas) should be able to bring 4 really good pieces back, plus prospects for MM and AM. I investigate Dubois as a FA he could be a good first line center, with grit. Team make up HAS to change dramatically.

 

[thewave]

Keepers

AM - If he agrees to extend here in advance.
Nylander
JT
Rielly
ROR - If possible
Lilgrin
Sammy
Woll
Bunting
Schenn
McCabe
Gustaffsson

I think I am good with that and you could probably get some decent assets from Marner and AM to build down the line. Probably get to stash some 1st round picks and be able to entice some vets around JT's age.

Honestly I think we could still be a playoff team even.