Speculation: The Coaching Thread

[BUX7PHX]

From last year we lost Yandle who would easily be our second best D on most nights and our best D on some nights because of his puck moving abilities. Last night we played Dahlback/Murphy/Elliot. None of those 3 were regular NHL D last year, Murphy has been a recent healthy scratch too. Last night, we had our 1D/OEL play poorly, and the rest of our D is really 4-7D. We were missing a 1,2, and 3D last night. Add to that Lindbacks performance, a border line NHL goalie, our AHL goalies performance, and no Hanzal, our 1C/excellent defensive center.

You guys are dreaming if you think firing the coach fixes our problems. He is playing young guys and we scored 5 goals.

Makes one realize that if we can score goals at a much higher rate than any of our previous iterations of the team with Yandle, then maybe having a puck-moving defenseman back is not our biggest issue. Maybe it is simply setting up properly in the D zone to create easier opportunities to move the puck out of the zone...

 

[Jakey53]

No way we don't draft the Arizona kid if possible. If we have too many forward prospects that pan out, then you trade for D.

Exactly. Always draft BPA.

Apparently not around here!

Isn't that the truth. Then when we start to play better and go on a winning streak all will be happy again, then go on a losing streak all will jump off the cliff, again.

 

[Jakey53]

This will most likely be the 4th straight season missing the playoffs. How many losing seasons = patience?

Besides last year, the reasons we have missed the playoffs have been discussed till were blue in the face. When a rebuild starts, you can expect two to four years missing the playoffs, but should see progress every year.

 

[hbk]

This season is about selling hope and building excitement of our future.

It's been a very successful season thus far.

 

[Jakey53]

This season is about selling hope and building excitement of our future.

It's been a very successful season thus far.

Thank you! I have mentioned a million times this is going to be a roller coaster ride this year, and I still expect a bottom five finish. Rebuilding is a tough and painful experience, but if done right, very rewarding.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Exactly. Always draft BPA.

Isn't that the truth. Then when we start to play better and go on a winning streak all will be happy again, then go on a losing streak all will jump off the cliff, again.

No, no, going on winning streaks destroys the tank. Wouldn't wanna miss out on some extra ping pong ball combinations.

 

[rt]

So, when does a head coach finally get on the hot seat for you apologists? Obviously five losing seasons isn't enough. So when do you get antsy? Seven losing seasons? Eight or nine? Or does he get an even ten years? Would a straight decade of uninspired, lazy, soft, losing hockey be enough to make you consider turning the page?

 

[rt]

Thank you! I have mentioned a million times this is going to be a roller coaster ride this year, and I still expect a bottom five finish. Rebuilding is a tough and painful experience, but if done right, very rewarding.

I checked to be the worst team in the league. What does that have to do with Tippett obviously having lost the team and being a completely ineffective head coach in desperate need of a firing? How are these things related? He's been dog ****, just like his team in the half decade following the Cindarella run. That buys him how long in your eyes? Clearly at least five seasons. How much longer does he get the benefit of the doubt because of one run?

 

[Matias Maccete]

I feel like we've had this debate for like two years.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Go ahead and fire Tippet and hire the ghost of Scotty Bowman. It won't change a thing. What I see on the team is a lack of skill on the back end and in the goal crease. I'll give OEL and Doan the occasional idiot play that helped cost them the game yesterday.

Haven't people watched the players on the team react late to their opponents?

I see players who react and make a choice of what to do a tick slower than their opponents on a day to day basis. They end up beaten to the puck, beaten to the position and forced to take penalties. I saw that last night all over the ice. They played with energy and heart but were clearly over matched. The lack of players with elite skill and elite hockey sense is not on Tippet's shoulders. His team plays hard and I've rarely, if ever, seen them mail it in.

 

[rt]

I feel like we've had this debate for like two years.

Yes we have. Of course we have. It's been obvious for that long that Tippett isn't working here any longer.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Yes we have. Of course we have. It's been obvious for that long that Tippett isn't working here any longer.

I agree, I just don't think anyone on either side is going to change sides short of something crazy like us making a cup run, or tip sending down/benching domi and duke.

 

[kihekah19*]

So, when does a head coach finally get on the hot seat for you apologists? Obviously five losing seasons isn't enough. So when do you get antsy? Seven losing seasons? Eight or nine? Or does he get an even ten years? Would a straight decade of uninspired, lazy, soft, losing hockey be enough to make you consider turning the page?

Personally, I don't think there's anything to apologize for. In fact, he's done an admirable job with this team thus far this season, based on what I think are reasonable expectations.

 

[Jakey53]

Go ahead and fire Tippet and hire the ghost of Scotty Bowman. It won't change a thing. What I see on the team is a lack of skill on the back end and in the goal crease. I'll give OEL and Doan the occasional idiot play that helped cost them the game yesterday.

Haven't people watched the players on the team react late to their opponents?

I see players who react and make a choice of what to do a tick slower than their opponents on a day to day basis. They end up beaten to the puck, beaten to the position and forced to take penalties. I saw that last night all over the ice. They played with energy and heart but were clearly over matched. The lack of players with elite skill and elite hockey sense is not on Tippet's shoulders. His team plays hard and I've rarely, if ever, seen them mail it in.

Yup, but in most cases it's easier to blame the coach than the players.

 

[Jakey53]

Personally, I don't think there's anything to apologize for. In fact, he's done an admirable job with this team thus far this season, based on what I think are reasonable expectations.

Correct. Some think we should be cup contenders because of the way we started the season.
Again, this is going to take time. I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but some just can not or will not comprehend that you can not build a good team overnight. You are going to have bumps in the road, and even then success is not guaranteed.

 

[Jakey53]

Yes we have. Of course we have. It's been obvious for that long that Tippett isn't working here any longer.

I see your back to this again.

 

[kihekah19*]

Correct. Some think we should be cup contenders because of the way we started the season.
Again, this is going to take time. I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but some just can not or will not comprehend that you can not build a good team overnight. You are going to have bumps in the road, and even then success is not guaranteed.

To further exasperate the situation (not trying to be mean here) is that many whom are complaining don't even have a financial stake in the situation. I'm reading from several on here that seem to understand what's going on (or at least they agree with me ), that actually invest their hard earned dollars and precious time into watching this team play.

I would think those that are footing the bill would be most apt to feel that they are losing/wasting money and therefore be most upset.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I'm a season ticket holder. That said, I don't think that those who don't go to the games are any less fans of the team than you or I, Kihekah.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

To further exasperate the situation (not trying to be mean here) is that many whom are complaining don't even have a financial stake in the situation. I'm reading from several on here that seem to understand what's going on (or at least they agree with me ), that actually invest their hard earned dollars and precious time into watching this team play.

I would think those that are footing the bill would be most apt to feel that they are losing/wasting money and therefore be most upset.

Well, having tix for 11 years has given me the opportunity to watch the team under two different head coaches - Gretzky and Tippett - and from my point of view the team has had the same weaknesses under both guys. The extent of those weaknesses have been exaggerated or ameliorated by the supporting cast. Ulf Samuelsson made both Gretzky and Tippett better than they would have been otherwise, while under Playfair the defense has steadily declined.

I'll give Gretzky this much credit - although he had no idea really how to coach, and he embarrassed himself and the team with his red-faced yelling, he at least did not fall into Tippett's prima facie assumption that there's only one way to play the NHL game - dumping and chasing.

I don't know if firing Tippett would help or hurt this team, but it's clear the team is in a big rut and there's no sign of them being able to drag themselves out of it.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Our fanbase is badly divided not only by the management issue but also the ownership issue and talk of the arena location.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

To me, the time to get a new coach is when the team is not playing up to its capabilities, or a solid team needs a new coach to reach the next level. Neither of these conditions apply at this time.

I'll be far more receptive to a coaching change in a couple of years when we have incorporated all of our young talent into the team and find that Tippet can't take the team deep into the playoffs.

 

[Matias Maccete]

To me, the time to get a new coach is when the team is not playing up to its capabilities, or a solid team needs a new coach to reach the next level. Neither of these conditions apply at this time.

I'll be far more receptive to a coaching change in a couple of years when we have incorporated all of our young talent into the team and find that Tippet can't take the team deep into the playoffs.

I know you don't mean it this way, I just think it's funny you said when not if, which implies that there's no doubt that happens.

 

[kihekah19*]

Well, having tix for 11 years has given me the opportunity to watch the team under two different head coaches - Gretzky and Tippett - and from my point of view the team has had the same weaknesses under both guys. The extent of those weaknesses have been exaggerated or ameliorated by the supporting cast. Ulf Samuelsson made both Gretzky and Tippett better than they would have been otherwise, while under Playfair the defense has steadily declined.

I'll give Gretzky this much credit - although he had no idea really how to coach, and he embarrassed himself and the team with his red-faced yelling, he at least did not fall into Tippett's prima facie assumption that there's only one way to play the NHL game - dumping and chasing.

I don't know if firing Tippett would help or hurt this team, but it's clear the team is in a big rut and there's no sign of them being able to drag themselves out of it.

I think we could improve on Playfair, but I could just as easily be wrong - we don't really know for certain, while I've had my season tix as long as you, I don't get to many practices and have never been in the room. So there's that.

Tippett does not dump & chase exclusively, but rather based on reading and reacting to situations, as does any other coach in the NHL. The team does happen to be quite effective when they do dump and chase with a sustained forecheck however.

I see the exact opposite of a rut. I see a team that takes some steps forward and then reverts to some old bad habits, but is making improvements generally speaking. Competition heats up and it all gets harder as the season progresses and I didn't foresee this club getting better in the win column, I did foresee them having increased struggles however.

To have the struggles and still be in games is icing on this fans cake.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I see the exact opposite of a rut. I see a team that takes some steps forward and then reverts to some old bad habits, but is making improvements generally speaking. Competition heats up and it all gets harder as the season progresses and I didn't foresee this club getting better in the win column, I did foresee them having increased struggles however.

To have the struggles and still be in games is icing on this fans cake.

My worry is that the "rebuild" we're going through essentially consists of Domi, Duclair, and Martinook - the rest of the team are mostly veteran players (I count Stone as a veteran... on the fence with Murphy since it's only his second full year), and they're the ones who are seriously letting us down.

Usually in a rebuild situation you have a lot of young players learning to adapt to the NHL game. Our young players, though (Murphy and Dahlbeck excepted), are the ones making the least mistakes... or at least the least egregious ones. Every time Domi and Duclair are on the ice I see a lot of potential for the future; with virtually everyone else, though, I'm seeing a great deal of regression or decline. The reason why I point to coaching as an issue is that so many veteran players who have been considered somewhat solid have all at once become liabilities.

I agree there has been a bit more "fun" to this team... but only when Domi and Duclair are doing their thing. It has not been fun whatsoever for me to see the team playing less capably than a beer-league team with a keg in them. The one saving grace has been that this season, unlike last, the team seems more able to mount comebacks after falling behind.

I guess it's a difference between "trainwreck" hockey and the dull, barely competent hockey we got used to in prior seasons (including 2011-2012). "Trainwreck" hockey is watchable when both teams are on about even terms (like last night), but when a competent team plays us it's just embarrassing when we fall apart like wet tissue.

 

[rt]

Tippett's teams are lazy and soft. He praises them for hard work. This is a country club and our coach is blind.