Confirmed with Link: The Blash is Back, Bylsma is gone

[LeftWingLocked]

Since we only played in 1 division, I think it’s difficult to determine this team would finish .430 if they played a traditional schedule.

 

[Hen Kolland]

If we actually started doing these kinds of projects, we might as well try to turn it into the NHL's version of Pro Football Focus and make some serious cash consulting for pro teams.

Don’t tempt me with a good time. I already sit around playing with numbers all day, and now you are telling me the numbers can be something I really enjoy?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If we actually started doing these kinds of projects, we might as well try to turn it into the NHL's version of Pro Football Focus and make some serious cash consulting for pro teams.

No bullshit, man. I feel like I should bill you for my last two posts.

 

[waltdetroit]

Losses by 3 goals or more: 15

Are you able to tell how many of these games had EN goals and/or how many EN goals were scored in these
games? I am curious because I seem to remember a couple of games where the wings gave up 2 EN goals.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Are you able to tell how many of these games had EN goals and/or how many EN goals were scored in these
games? I am curious because I seem to remember a couple of games where the wings gave up 2 EN goals.

That was manually looking at the game logs, my dude. But I believe you are right. There was one, or maybe two games with 2 ENGs.

 

[waltdetroit]

That was manually looking at the game logs, my dude. But I believe you are right. There was one, or maybe two games with 2 ENGs.

If you hadn't included EN goals, the number losses by 3 goals would be less than 15 but not by much. I see your point

 

[Bench]

That was manually looking at the game logs, my dude. But I believe you are right. There was one, or maybe two games with 2 ENGs.

Hey, just more billable hours for you.

BTW dude thanks for the chatter today, made work fly by a little better between tasks. Appreciate the discussion here from yourself and a few other folks. I know we're not all on board with Blashill, and I'm not in love with the guy, but he's our coach for at least another year so let's hope we see something positive from our ragtag group in in 2021-2022.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Hey, just more billable hours for you.

BTW dude thanks for the chatter today, made work fly by a little better between tasks. Appreciate the discussion here from yourself and a few other folks. I know we're not all on board with Blashill, and I'm not in love with the guy, but he's our coach for at least another year so let's hope we see something positive from our ragtag group in in 2021-2022.

Well the good news is Seider will be up, and Blashill seemed to like Veleno enough to play the guy in a top 6 role so that's something. And we can't get any worse on the powerplay?

 

[deca guard]

few words in a kulfan report about blash from players -

 

[Gniwder]

Gretzky coached the Coyotes, didn't teach them anything.
Don't need to have played the position to coach players, if you have an understanding of what the role is and understanding of gameplay, movement and time and space. And more specifically how to get the message across in a way recipients understand.

Plenty of very knowledgeable teachers who are absolute terrible at teaching away their knowledge.

You don't have to have skills to coach tactics, but you do need it to coach skills such as shooting. We have a team full of players who can't hit the damn net or make a decent pass. Who's gonna coach that? Hopefully the new assistant. They should've hired a consultant (for example Adam Oates) the past 2 years.

Gretzky was such a natural player, he didn't have to think to do anything. That actually makes it harder to coach someone when you do things without having to think about it.

I hired and trained ski instructors, the one who were natural or learned at an earlier age had more issues teaching. The ones who learned at an older age taught better, but some of them struggled with demonstrating properly. The best coaches can demonstrate and teach.

 

[14ari13]

You have yet to say anything about how the Wings literally cut what were determined to be ES scoring chances from 588 for Bernier in 46 games to 142 in 24 games. The decline didn't come from better goaltending. It came from changing the defensive system to a turtle shell vs trying to play a more open system. Bernier was not appreciably better in 20-21 than he was in 19-20.

Also....

Thomas Greiss 2020-21 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com
Jimmy Howard 2019-20 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Through 20 games, Greiss and Howard sure looked like the same f***in goalie to me... with one guy on a team far more committed to playing defense. Greiss had a fabulous last month of the season and it recovered his stats in a huge way. Can't take that away. But my god, stop banging this drum about the goaltending being massively better. It wasn't. Bernier was great both years and Greiss sucked until the end of the season when teams were all starting to pack it in. Check the stats through 25 games there... Greiss was at .895 and Howard was at .889. Both were complete and total dogshit.

Hell, literally all these stats that you want to quote and show "regression"? They're directly linked to playing a neutral zone trap/1-2-2 or whatever kind of system. Corsi is nothing but "more shots for me good, more shots for them bad"... while ignoring that a high quantity of dogshit shots is actually not a problem. The Predators used to give up 35-40 shots a night, but they were all worthless point shots that their massive goalie in Rinne could suck in and had no chance of scoring.

For Larkin, if you want to complain about his regression in faceoffs? That's valid. That's a Dylan-only stat. But man, the rest of them, the Wings collapsed into a defensive shell every single game. Wow, Dylan Larkin isn't Jack Eichel or Connor McDavid or Leon Draisaitl. I'm glad we proved that to ourselves. He's not Datsyuk or Zetterberg either. He can't be a Selke caliber or high caliber defensive forward AND score PPG. That shouldn't be some massive strike against him, that's a ludicrously high bar for anyone to clear. It's just been made painfully clear that he's lacking the top end skill that other teams have in their 1C spot or at least that he can't do it alone.

Even though Greiss did not play great, he was not terrible either. Howard allowed at least one soft and one semi soft goal per game.
Can Blashill open it up? Sure, but how does the players and fans react ho losing 8-3 instead of 3-2?

I am very disappointed how many fans understand hockey, offense, defence, stats ....
Would the Devils prefer to win 5-2 instead of 1-0 in their glory days? Sure, but they did not have the players.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Even though Greiss did not play great, he was not terrible either. Howard allowed at least one soft and one semi soft goal per game.
Can Blashill open it up? Sure, but how does the players and fans react ho losing 8-3 instead of 3-2?

I am very disappointed how many fans understand hockey, offense, defence, stats ....
Would the Devils prefer to win 5-2 instead of 1-0 in their glory days? Sure, but they did not have the players.

Right... and how many of the 5 goals a game did he give up that were good scoring chances? How many of the soft or semi-soft (which couldn't possibly be any more open to subjectivity if you tried) were given up as goal 3 or 4? Because I know (at a much lower level, obviously) if I've given up two goals and we're midway through the second and my team has maybe one shot, I'm more likely to give up a really bad goal later on. Also, maybe Howard gave up soft goals later in games because his conditioning was shit and they were asking both him and Bernier to pull their shit out of the fire early and often. Bernier was in better shape and more able to do it. This isn't a good thing for Howard, he was still worthless, but this would take a serious look if people want to actually bang the drum that goaltending was the reason for the difference in performance this year... when you can just look at the chances and what the expected goals against at ES were for guys (Bernier was at 88 through 46 games in 19-20 and 23 or so through 24 games in 20-21.)

Your last sentence does nothing to disagree with what I've said. The Wings clearly went into shell hockey because they didn't want to lose 8-3 or whatever... because they did a lot of that in 19-20. It's why Bernier faced 588 scoring chances last year and 142 this year. It's why the Red Wings goalies as a whole faced slightly under 1000 (588 Bernier, 384 or so for Howard) through 71 as opposed to 299 through 56 games in the two years.

Shit on Howard all you want. He deserved it because he was historically bad. But Greiss was materially better statistically only because he had a period at the end of the year when teams were really winding it down and he racked up huge save numbers and a couple shutouts.

 

[TheClap]

Right... and how many of the 5 goals a game did he give up that were good scoring chances? How many of the soft or semi-soft (which couldn't possibly be any more open to subjectivity if you tried) were given up as goal 3 or 4? Because I know (at a much lower level, obviously) if I've given up two goals and we're midway through the second and my team has maybe one shot, I'm more likely to give up a really bad goal later on. Also, maybe Howard gave up soft goals later in games because his conditioning was shit and they were asking both him and Bernier to pull their shit out of the fire early and often. Bernier was in better shape and more able to do it. This isn't a good thing for Howard, he was still worthless, but this would take a serious look if people want to actually bang the drum that goaltending was the reason for the difference in performance this year... when you can just look at the chances and what the expected goals against at ES were for guys (Bernier was at 88 through 46 games in 19-20 and 23 or so through 24 games in 20-21.)

Your last sentence does nothing to disagree with what I've said. The Wings clearly went into shell hockey because they didn't want to lose 8-3 or whatever... because they did a lot of that in 19-20. It's why Bernier faced 588 scoring chances last year and 142 this year. It's why the Red Wings goalies as a whole faced slightly under 1000 (588 Bernier, 384 or so for Howard) through 71 as opposed to 299 through 56 games in the two years.

Shit on Howard all you want. He deserved it because he was historically bad. But Greiss was materially better statistically only because he had a period at the end of the year when teams were really winding it down and he racked up huge save numbers and a couple shutouts.

You're overlooking one key thing.
This season the Wings had 6-7 defensemen, who while not great, were all at least NHL-caliber.
They acquired Staal, Stecher, and Merrill to replace Ericcson, Daley, Green, and Bowey, all of whom's NHL shelf lives had expired by at least 2 seasons (or never existed in the case of Bowey), and also had a healthy Dekeyser available to play in a majority of the games.
They didn't clearly go into a shell, they just had more competent defenders on top of the more competent goaltending.

 

[Hen Kolland]

They didn't clearly go into a shell, they just had more competent defenders on top of the more competent goaltending.

They had better defense, better goaltending, and still went into a shell.

 

[14ari13]

I remember that summer when we got Hasek i about lost it, he was my favorite non wings player, then add Hull and Robitaille and I was confident we would win.

I remember it like it was yesterday.

Hasek was my favourite too. Having him and chelios was very exciting, to say it mildly.

Right... and how many of the 5 goals a game did he give up that were good scoring chances? How many of the soft or semi-soft (which couldn't possibly be any more open to subjectivity if you tried) were given up as goal 3 or 4? Because I know (at a much lower level, obviously) if I've given up two goals and we're midway through the second and my team has maybe one shot, I'm more likely to give up a really bad goal later on. Also, maybe Howard gave up soft goals later in games because his conditioning was shit and they were asking both him and Bernier to pull their shit out of the fire early and often. Bernier was in better shape and more able to do it. This isn't a good thing for Howard, he was still worthless, but this would take a serious look if people want to actually bang the drum that goaltending was the reason for the difference in performance this year... when you can just look at the chances and what the expected goals against at ES were for guys (Bernier was at 88 through 46 games in 19-20 and 23 or so through 24 games in 20-21.)

Your last sentence does nothing to disagree with what I've said. The Wings clearly went into shell hockey because they didn't want to lose 8-3 or whatever... because they did a lot of that in 19-20. It's why Bernier faced 588 scoring chances last year and 142 this year. It's why the Red Wings goalies as a whole faced slightly under 1000 (588 Bernier, 384 or so for Howard) through 71 as opposed to 299 through 56 games in the two years.

Shit on Howard all you want. He deserved it because he was historically bad. But Greiss was materially better statistically only because he had a period at the end of the year when teams were really winding it down and he racked up huge save numbers and a couple shutouts.

Howard allowed at least one soft and one semi soft. The key al least. He did not win a single game all season long.
Greiss somehow finished unbeaten in last 9ish.
Defence has been better this year too.

They had better defense, better goaltending, and still went into a shell.

You think it would be better they lost by 5+ goals?

Yzerman decides everything, Blashill follows his instructions.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Hasek was my favourite too. Having him and chelios was very exciting, to say it mildly.


Howard allowed at least one soft and one semi soft. The key al least. He did not win a single game all season long.
Greiss somehow finished unbeaten in last 9ish.
Defence has been better this year too.

You think it would be better they lost by 5+ goals?

Yzerman decides everything, Blashill follows his instructions.

did I say anything about my preferences? I just made a statement about what happened

 

[14ari13]

did I say anything about my preferences? I just made a statement about what happened

I understood like you meant it was wrong they went into a shell.

I just think they had no choice.

 

[Gniwder]

I understood like you meant it was wrong they went into a shell.

I just think they had no choice.

Only after Bert, Fabbri, Ryan, and Larkin got hurt. If you can't score, you go into a shell even if you have decent defensemen. That's how Trotz won in Nashville and how he's winning games now.

I really hope next year the system becomes more flexible where the top 2 lines (when healthy) don't play a complete shell. The bottom 2 lines can play in a shell for all I care.

 

[14ari13]

Only after Bert, Fabbri, Ryan, and Larkin got hurt. If you can't score, you go into a shell even if you have decent defensemen. That's how Trotz won in Nashville and how he's winning games now.

I really hope next year the system becomes more flexible where the top 2 lines (when healthy) don't play a complete shell. The bottom 2 lines can play in a shell for all I care.

We did not do it vs the blue jackets.

 

[Gniwder]

We did not do it vs the blue jackets.

Because they sucked just as bad, lol. WHy bother going into a shell if the other team can't score?

 

[14ari13]

Because they sucked just as bad, lol. WHy bother going into a shell if the other team can't score?

We played only the teams in our division.
Sc winners, finalist, 3 and 4 in the whole league, one playoffs team, one which fought for the playoffs spot. Very, very tough opponents. The one which was not good, we dominated.

 

[Gniwder]

Gretzky coached the Coyotes, didn't teach them anything.
Don't need to have played the position to coach players, if you have an understanding of what the role is and understanding of gameplay, movement and time and space. And more specifically how to get the message across in a way recipients understand.

Plenty of very knowledgeable teachers who are absolute terrible at teaching away their knowledge.

... and Stevie hires an assistant coach with NHL scoring experience.

 

[Frk It]

... and Stevie hires an assistant coach with NHL scoring experience.

Interesting bump when the guy just named Coach of the Year is a former player...

 

[MBH]

Interesting bump when the guy just named Coach of the Year is a former player...

Since 2000

Jack Adamas winners with NHL playing experience
Brind'Amour.
Gallant
Cassidy
Roy
McLean
Bylsma
Tippett
Julien
Boudreau
Vigneault
Ruff
Lemaire
Francis
Barber
Quenneville

Jack Adams winners without NHL playing experience
Barry Trotz
John Tortorella
Ken Hitchcock

 

[Hen Kolland]

Interesting bump when the guy just named Coach of the Year is a former player...

Since 2000

Jack Adamas winners with NHL playing experience
Brind'Amour.
Gallant
Cassidy
Roy
McLean
Bylsma
Tippett
Julien
Boudreau
Vigneault
Ruff
Lemaire
Francis
Barber
Quenneville

Jack Adams winners without NHL playing experience
Barry Trotz
John Tortorella
Ken Hitchcock

Gniwder was very steadfast in his belief that the hire should be a guy who walked the walk, not just talked the talk.

I get his logic; who better to fix a team’s offensive woes than a guy who was a guy that fixed offensive woes as a player. I don’t think it HAS to be a great offensive player, but I don’t think it should be viewed as a negative at all if he was.