Player Discussion The Big Fella: Zack MacEwen (MAY 7 - Suspended 1 game)

[MS]

MacEwen had an okay game on Saturday but was otherwise highly ineffective. He is being properly employed at this stage as a callup guy.

Is he any more ineffective than Michael Ferland (1 goal in his last 38 games) or Tim Schaller (0 points, -12 in his last 20)?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Is he any more ineffective than Michael Ferland (1 goal in his last 38 games) or Tim Schaller (0 points, -12 in his last 20)?

Sutter and Eriksson as well. Holy f***...we have so many garbage damaged players on the payroll.

 

[Blue and Green]

Is he any more ineffective than Michael Ferland (1 goal in his last 38 games) or Tim Schaller (0 points, -12 in his last 20)?

Schaller is debatable. Cherry-picking Ferland's goal scoring slump is similar to the people who said that Leivo should be benched or waived because as of about two weeks ago he had 2 goals in his previous 31 games.

 

[MS]

Schaller is debatable. Cherry-picking Ferland's goal scoring slump is similar to the people who said that Leivo should be benched or waived because as of about two weeks ago he had 2 goals in his previous 31 games.

Leivo and Ferland are on a completely different level in terms of their play away from the puck. Leivo is actually a good defensive player, and makes only $1.5 million.

 

[Blue and Green]

Leivo and Ferland are on a completely different level in terms of their play away from the puck. Leivo is actually a good defensive player, and makes only $1.5 million.

Quite aware of Leivo's virtues, I said this summer that he had signed a bargain contract-- although I don't think he's a particularly good defensive player inside his own blue line, actually. Ferland is a solid NHL player who, when healthy, is miles above MacEwen. I've watched almost every game MacEwen's played in the past 11 months, I know where's he at. Let's call in @Bad Goalie as I'm sure that he'd be happy to give an assessment of MacEwen.

 

[4Twenty]

MacEwen doesn't look the part to me, but the point is, players who play this role do not drive the bus, whether it's Ferland or Macewan on the 4th line doesn't really matter, it matters how much you're spending for these roster spots.

This is the exact same premise as supporting Biega and Gaunce (although both these guys are miles better than MacEwen as well.

I don't think it's cherry picking to point half a season of 1 goal, who was only productive over the previous 1.5 seasons by riding shotgun with elite players.

 

[Blue and Green]

MacEwen doesn't look the part to me, but the point is, players who play this role do not drive the bus, whether it's Ferland or Macewan on the 4th line doesn't really matter, it matters how much you're spending for these roster spots.

This is the exact same premise as supporting Biega and Gaunce (although both these guys are miles better than MacEwen as well.

I don't think it's cherry picking to point half a season of 1 goal, who was only productive over the previous 1.5 seasons by riding shotgun with elite players.

Contracts are a separate issue; I've frequently criticized Benning's UFA signings. The stuff about Ferland is very similar to things that were written in the Pearson-Leivo thread. Goal scoring slumps happen that aren't necessarily indicative of the player's total value in that stretch and especially not over the longer haul.

 

[F A N]

MacEwen doesn't look the part to me, but the point is, players who play this role do not drive the bus, whether it's Ferland or Macewan on the 4th line doesn't really matter, it matters how much you're spending for these roster spots.

This is the exact same premise as supporting Biega and Gaunce (although both these guys are miles better than MacEwen as well.

I don't think it's cherry picking to point half a season of 1 goal, who was only productive over the previous 1.5 seasons by riding shotgun with elite players.

It might not matter as much in the regular season but having a 4th line you can trust vs not having one can give a team a decided edge. At the end of the day, you need your 4th line to be able to contribute. If you can have cheap young guys with some offensive potential do that then that's great.

 

[MS]

Quite aware of Leivo's virtues, I said this summer that he had signed a bargain contract-- although I don't think he's a particularly good defensive player inside his own blue line, actually. Ferland is a solid NHL player who, when healthy, is miles above MacEwen. I've watched almost every game MacEwen's played in the past 11 months, I know where's he at. Let's call in @Bad Goalie as I'm sure that he'd be happy to give an assessment of MacEwen.

I've watched about 50 of MacEwan's games in that time and totally understand where he's at as well. This is not a defense of MacEwen as much as it is criticism of Ferland, who really looks no better and has been completely lost defensively.

 

[MS]

It might not matter as much in the regular season but having a 4th line you can trust vs not having one can give a team a decided edge. At the end of the day, you need your 4th line to be able to contribute. If you can have cheap young guys with some offensive potential do that then that's great.

Except you really don't. Whether your 4th line contributes or not really doesn't move the needle.

Our 4th line in 10-11 was garbage. The two best teams in the NHL right now are Boston and Washington. Boston is playing the likes of Par Lindholm, Brett Ritchie, and Joakim Nordstrom as their 4th line. Washington is playing Nic Dowd and Brendan Leipsic (our garbage castoffs) along with guys like Garnet Hathaway and Chandler Stephenson. All cheap, fungible, garbage nobodies.

And that's the point. Those teams didn't waste huge money on expensive garbage 4th liners who are no better than cheap garbage 4th liners, and invested that money instead in actual good players. We, instead, spent $5.5 million on Beagle and Schaller and then had to turn down Gus Nyquist when he wanted to sign here at reasonable numbers.

 

[Nomobo]

I've watched about 50 of MacEwan's games in that time and totally understand where he's at as well. This is not a defense of MacEwen as much as it is criticism of Ferland, who really looks no better and has been completely lost defensively.

And how many games has Ferland played?
Let him play 50 games for us before labeling him. We don’t know how much impact he’s have until he plays half a season or so.
I think the problem is more that we’re at least one real second liner away from having a viable top six. Pearson and Leivo are capable 3rd liners and only second liners in a pinch.
And I agree that we’ve got too much coin tied up in the bottom half of the roster, money that should have been spent on linemates for Horvat.

 

[4Twenty]

And how many games has Ferland played?
Let him play 50 games for us before labeling him. We don’t know how much impact he’s have until he plays half a season or so.
I think the problem is more that we’re at least one real second liner away from having a viable top six. Pearson and Leivo are capable 3rd liners and only second liners in a pinch.
And I agree that we’ve got too much coin tied up in the bottom half of the roster, money that should have been spent on linemates for Horvat.

50 games? You need 50 game samples on 27 year old 300+ game NHL vets now?

We've got a pretty good idea of what he looks like over 4-5 seasons, and when he's not shoehorned onto a 1st line, he's a 3rd liner that doesn't score much.

 

[F A N]

Except you really don't. Whether your 4th line contributes or not really doesn't move the needle.

Our 4th line in 10-11 was garbage. The two best teams in the NHL right now are Boston and Washington. Boston is playing the likes of Par Lindholm, Brett Ritchie, and Joakim Nordstrom as their 4th line. Washington is playing Nic Dowd and Brendan Leipsic (our garbage castoffs) along with guys like Garnet Hathaway and Chandler Stephenson. All cheap, fungible, garbage nobodies.

And that's the point. Those teams didn't waste huge money on expensive garbage 4th liners who are no better than cheap garbage 4th liners, and invested that money instead in actual good players. We, instead, spent $5.5 million on Beagle and Schaller and then had to turn down Gus Nyquist when he wanted to sign here at reasonable numbers.

And which of those teams have won the Cup with that 4th line you described? When Washington won, they won with Jay Beagle anchoring their 4th line. The Blues won with a 4th line of Barbashev, Sundqvist, and Steen. Are you saying these three are better than Boston and Washington's current 4th line? By the way, Garnet Hathaway has a 4 year $1.5M AAV contract.

There's a difference between having a cheap 4th line due to timing and a cheap 4th line because they are fungible garbage nobodies.

 

[4Twenty]

Jay Beagle at $1m is fine, but we've got to stop pretending he's some guy who elevates 4th lines.

Washington didn't make it out of the 2nd round with elite teams for a decade on 4th lines he "anchored". Heck, he had 3 playoff points in the 25 games preceding the Caps cup year. 7 years of basically playoff no-shows, but one cup run at 32 and you're the new Kris Draper? C'mon.

Sundqvist was playing 16 mins/night in the playoffs by the way, he was essentially a 2nd liner for them....did you perhaps mean, Zach Sanford?

 

[Nomobo]

50 games? You need 50 game samples on 27 year old 300+ game NHL vets now?

We've got a pretty good idea of what he looks like over 4-5 seasons, and when he's not shoehorned onto a 1st line, he's a 3rd liner that doesn't score much.

Yeah and he looked like a good NHL player over those 4-5 years. He’s hardly had a chance to show what he can do here.

 

[4Twenty]

Yeah and he looked like a good NHL player over those 4-5 years. He’s hardly had a chance to show what he can do here.

He looks like a fine NHL player here already. He's just unlikely to score at the rates he did in the past if he's not getting Petey minutes, and they tried, but it didn't work and that's why they moved JT up to that line.

 

[Nomobo]

He looks like a fine NHL player here already. He's just unlikely to score at the rates he did in the past if he's not getting Petey minutes, and they tried, but it didn't work and that's why they moved JT up to that line.

He brings more than just scoring, you should know that and he might be a fit alongside Horvat if he could stay healthy long enough.

 

[F A N]

Jay Beagle at $1m is fine, but we've got to stop pretending he's some guy who elevates 4th lines.

Washington didn't make it out of the 2nd round with elite teams for a decade on 4th lines he "anchored". Heck, he had 3 playoff points in the 25 games preceding the Caps cup year. 7 years of basically playoff no-shows, but one cup run at 32 and you're the new Kris Draper? C'mon.

Beagle actually has higher point production than Kris Draper in the playoffs. C'mon.

 

[MS]

And which of those teams have won the Cup with that 4th line you described? When Washington won, they won with Jay Beagle anchoring their 4th line. The Blues won with a 4th line of Barbashev, Sundqvist, and Steen. Are you saying these three are better than Boston and Washington's current 4th line? By the way, Garnet Hathaway has a 4 year $1.5M AAV contract.

There's a difference between having a cheap 4th line due to timing and a cheap 4th line because they are fungible garbage nobodies.

Washington won because they had 5 guys who scored 20+ points and an elite goalie throwing down a .930 save %, not because Jay Beagle was a pretty solid 4th line center.

Like obviously it's better (by a little bit) to have better players on your 4th line, assuming those players can be signed at low cost or are on ELCs (Beagle was signed reasonably at the time). But paying big money for 4th liners, and especially old 4th liners, is always a fool's proposition.

 

[Pip]

Having a good fourth line is nice but the important thing is to have a cheap fourth line. If you can get both then great but it’s literally the least important part of your team and should not be prioritized over upgrading your top 9, your defense, or your goaltending.

 

[Melvin]

Except you really don't. Whether your 4th line contributes or not really doesn't move the needle.

Our 4th line in 10-11 was garbage. The two best teams in the NHL right now are Boston and Washington. Boston is playing the likes of Par Lindholm, Brett Ritchie, and Joakim Nordstrom as their 4th line. Washington is playing Nic Dowd and Brendan Leipsic (our garbage castoffs) along with guys like Garnet Hathaway and Chandler Stephenson. All cheap, fungible, garbage nobodies.

And that's the point. Those teams didn't waste huge money on expensive garbage 4th liners who are no better than cheap garbage 4th liners, and invested that money instead in actual good players. We, instead, spent $5.5 million on Beagle and Schaller and then had to turn down Gus Nyquist when he wanted to sign here at reasonable numbers.

Either that, or leipsic and Dowd are elite 4th line players and Benning was a Moron to let them go. Take your pick.

 

[MS]

Having a good fourth line is nice but the important thing is to have a cheap fourth line. If you can get both then great but it’s literally the least important part of your team and should not be prioritized over upgrading your top 9, your defense, or your goaltending.

Yup.

Put it this way - if Washington had been paying Jay Beagle $3 million from 2015-18, it probably means they can’t sign TJ Oshie and his 21 points during their Cup run, and don’t win a championship.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Ferland and Beagle could mean the difference between signing both Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes to long term contracts or having to choose between them. Canucks context.

 

[Pip]

Ferland and Beagle could mean the difference between signing both Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes to long term contracts or having to choose between them. Canucks context.

You could also say it’s the difference of adding another JT Miller caliber of player to the roster.

 

[VanJack]

Ferland and Beagle could mean the difference between signing both Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes to long term contracts or having to choose between them. Canucks context.

And if you throw Eriksson into this burning pile, the $12.5m in cap space would get you another John Tavares.