The best GM, who's hated by his own team's fans?

[Pyrophorus]

Dubas, if your a maple leafs GM you will be hated no matter what.

Only people with 2 brain cells or haters, hate him.
There have some poor executions, but hate shouldn't be part of it.

 

[MrNasty]

Bergevin should easily win the most hated but he's just too far from good as I think he would be lucky to be considered average. He's nailed some trades, i'll give him that as the Pacioretty deal is looking like it could be a huge boon for us, plus he made a really good move in getting Domi for Galchenyuk. Also getting Danault plus for UFA's and to pick up Armia for cap space was a smart move for sure. Trading for Petry was also a really good move as well as getting picks for Eller and Shaw. Turning Scandella into a 2nd round pick was very smart as well.

But he's made some bad moves as well, like trading a young skilled blueliner in Sergachev for a cream puff in Drouin, who at least so far has been a big disappointment for a skilled player and one of our highest paid forwards. Trading Kassian for Ben freaking Scrivens and trading for John Scott, lol. Trading assets for Martinsen, Dwight King, Schlemko etc..

The problem hasn't been so much trades as it's been in UFA contracts or buying UFA years when re-signing players, his choices in coaching hires outside of Bouchard who looks good so far in Laval, his terrible decisions in regards to development and how he's rushed every top prospect to the NHL before they were ready.

But in my almost 20 years at HF he's got to be the most hated person on the Habs board I have ever seen. Some think he's the worst GM we have ever had, I don't agree with that but he's taken us from a consistent playoff contender when he took over to a bottom barrel team that is turning into a bubble team that tries to get a wild card spot at best.

ok you can't use the Kassian example...you need to stop on that one or you are just trying to find bad trades to compare to his good ones. MB has many faults but trades he is pretty darn good at overall.
Kassian was given a second chance with Montreal...then crashed his hummer into a tree while drunk/stoned and blamed it on the girl he had in the truck with him. He later went to rehab and made a comeback. You can't blame him for trading him for whatever he could get at that very moment.

 

[montreal]

ok you can't use the Kassian example...you need to stop on that one or you are just trying to find bad trades to compare to his good ones. MB has many faults but trades he is pretty darn good at overall.
Kassian was given a second chance with Montreal...then crashed his hummer into a tree while drunk/stoned and blamed it on the girl he had in the truck with him. He later went to rehab and made a comeback. You can't blame him for trading him for whatever he could get at that very moment.

you sure can when he comes back and turns into a solid player that would have been very useful to such a small team.

If Bergevin can hire Rob Ramage who had been in prison for his DUI that led to the death of Keith Magnuson, he could have worked with Kassian vs just giving him away for a not even good backup.

 

[PromisedLand]

what no mention of Sakic?

 

[MrNasty]

you sure can when he comes back and turns into a solid player that would have been very useful to such a small team.

If Bergevin can hire Rob Ramage who had been in prison for his DUI that led to the death of Keith Magnuson, he could have worked with Kassian vs just giving him away for a not even good backup.

Ramage was long after the fact (11 years). It would have been a shit storm if Kassian stayed in Montreal for the season.

 

[Voight]

I’d go with Chayka, but I’m not sure the majority of Yotes fans “hate him”.

Chayka isn't a very good GM tho.

 

[hoglund]

Dubas, if your a maple leafs GM you will be hated no matter what.

That's not, Cliff Fletcher was loved when he was here.

 

[LeafsNation75]

That's not, Cliff Fletcher was loved when he was here.

During Fletcher's first time as the Leafs GM from 1991 - 1997 I would say that's correct.

However when he was brought back as the Interim GM after JFJ was fired, I don't think he was loved that much. Plus he was responsible for hiring Ron Wilson as the Leafs coach at that time and a lot of fans hated that decision.

 

[MikeyMike01]

I don't hate Lamoriello at all but it's a little disconcerting that (upon hire) he expected 50% turnover within a year or two of being hired and has pretty much resigned to do the opposite.

Winning a playoff series will do that.

 

[nowhereman]

I don't think the majority of Canucks fans hate Benning, though. There is, however, a contingent of fans that Brian Burke referred to as the "lunatic fringe" (i.e. HFBoards Canucks) that have an unbridled, almost unhealthy hate for the man. He's made some mistakes, without a doubt, but he's also made some very impressive moves that have positioned the Canucks very well for the future. Even with all that, Bennings detractors have referred to him (quite frequently) as "the worst GM of all time" and spend a significant portion of their lives dedicated to spewing vitriol at the guy (with endless message board arguments, comic strips, petitions, twitter wars, etc.).

The silent majority are on the fence, especially with the more recent upward trend. But, if you ask the "lunatic fringe", his horrifyingly incompetent legacy will be "felt for decades to come" and it's only a matter of time until they have to tear it down and do an "actual rebuild".

 

[hoglund]

During Fletcher's first time as the Leafs GM from 1991 - 1997 I would say that's correct.

However when he was brought back as the Interim GM after JFJ was fired, I don't think he was loved that much. Plus he was responsible for hiring Ron Wilson as the Leafs coach at that time and a lot of fans hated that decision.

I agree with that, the person I was responding to said that no Leaf's fans liked their GM and Fletcher was loved for a few years.

 

[Tawnos]

Just a few years ago, the answer to this question was Sather.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Winning a playoff series will do that.

True, but now they're built to win a round for the next couple of years without what's needed in order to advance several rounds and with pressure up against the cap with said roster.

 

[MikeyMike01]

True, but now they're built to win a round for the next couple of years without what's needed in order to advance several rounds and with pressure up against the cap with said roster.

Making the playoffs consistently would be a huge milestone for this franchise.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Making the playoffs consistently would be a huge milestone for this franchise.

Four of the last seven. We beat Florida, it's five of eight in the playoffs but only twice going to the second round.

I want moar. Moar. MOAR!!!!111!!!

 

[MikeyMike01]

Four of the last seven. We beat Florida, it's five of eight in the playoffs but only twice going to the second round.

I want moar. Moar. MOAR!!!!111!!!

Make
Miss
Make
Make
Miss
Miss
Make
Make?

I wouldn’t call that consistent.

 

[montreal]

Ramage was long after the fact (11 years). It would have been a shit storm if Kassian stayed in Montreal for the season.

that's just a weak excuse, of course it was long after a he got 4 years in prison. It didn't bother the oilers and they have made out well from the move. He had a career year this season and is just the kind of player we need, who cares if the media would have been upset.

 

[Javaman]

I’d say Benning is at best average. But I think you’re significantly undervaluing what he did in the draft. I don’t think it should be an expectation to get a franchise center and D with 5 top 10 picks and none above the fifth overall. Those guys usually are acquired with the first overall pick or second. I think getting two home runs plus Boeser with a late first is exceptional. And of course he should get credit for the drafting. I don’t see any logical argument why he shouldn’t.
On trades he’s been fairly good recently with the JT Miller trade being a home run and other trades like Leivo and Pearson being very solid.
His weaknesses are free agent signings where he’s generally terrible especially on overpaying bottom six guys, cap management and rebuilding the defense.
That’s why I’d rank him overall about average trying to balance out the good and the bad.

Well I guess this is one of those "agree to disagree moments."

In the end, while I agree some of his transactions have been good, his bad moves so vastly outweigh his good moves that there's no reasonable argument that his performance as a GM is even close to average.

We can debate that Benning played a key role in drafting Pettersson and Hughes all we want. That doesn't alter the fact that drafting is one of the least significant aspects of all a GM is expected to do. Even if Benning was some sort of draft savant (which evidence shows he isn't) that's no reason to believe he's a good GM just because he drafted Pettersson and Hughes. I don't want to dredge up the conversations in the Canucks section, but it would be wrong to suggest that the consensus is that Benning has nailed it at drafting.

 

[Buffdog]

Chevy has signed a bona-fide 1C and vezina calibre goaltender to long term team friendly contracts. Add in ehlers, commor, and jomos contracts.

He's drafted well (stanly aside) and found gems in later rounds.

He handled a difficult byfuglien situation with poise and class.

We made.ths conference finals two years ago.

Yet people on hfjets still want to run him out of town because trouba tied his hands, he didnt sign Lee Stempniak to an 8 year extension and he was dealt a literal shit sandwich of a hand with regards to depth and prospects when the team relocated.

 

[M88K]

Joe Nieuwendyk.

He made a lot of mistakes but he inherited a shit position.
Hicks was in financial difficulties which led to budget restrictions so he had limited assets he could acquire. But he kept the team largely competitive even through the bankruptcy years.
A lot of his tenures draft picks (Klingberg, Lindell Riley Smith, Oleksiak, Faksa, Shore, chiasson)
Are the reason the team never became a total garbage fire. Which is both good and bad as they never got that true #1 pick to build around, but he basically always had 1 hand tied behind his back as the GM, then when the new owner finally came in mid season he was promptly shit canned for captain nepotism. Who's achieved largely nothing despite unlimited funds at his disposal

 

[MonsterMack]

This isn't in the exact spirit of this thread, but a lot of Avs fans hated on Sakic for a while. Seems to have worked out for us, maybe some GMs just need some time?

 

[BritainStix]

Some people on the flyers board think Fletcher is horrendous because he signed Stewart to a bottom dollar contract (who is now in the AHL).

There was also condemnation of the Braun signing which actually turned out to be fantastic.

 

[insomniac]

Dorion's a good pick. It's not that he's definitely a very good GM - we don't actually know what he's capable of under a proper owner - but for sure he gets a lot of hate that shouldn't be directed at him. He's handcuffed by Melnyk and forced to shed salary for pennies on the dollar when all his counterparts know his hand. And then he's got to get in front of the media and make it seem like he won the trades.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't think the majority of Canucks fans hate Benning, though. There is, however, a contingent of fans that Brian Burke referred to as the "lunatic fringe" (i.e. HFBoards Canucks) that have an unbridled, almost unhealthy hate for the man. He's made some mistakes, without a doubt, but he's also made some very impressive moves that have positioned the Canucks very well for the future. Even with all that, Bennings detractors have referred to him (quite frequently) as "the worst GM of all time" and spend a significant portion of their lives dedicated to spewing vitriol at the guy (with endless message board arguments, comic strips, petitions, twitter wars, etc.).

The silent majority are on the fence, especially with the more recent upward trend. But, if you ask the "lunatic fringe", his horrifyingly incompetent legacy will be "felt for decades to come" and it's only a matter of time until they have to tear it down and do an "actual rebuild".

The SILENT majority is on the fence..? Hmmm.

It's difficult to take seriously the opinion that strips away the nuance of arguments against, only to employ hyperbole and stereotype in turn.

There are countless arguments made against Benning's tenure. Countless. "Made some mistakes" is... just about the nicest way you could put it. Even the media has taken aim with Brackett's departure. They've gone out of their way to marginalize Benning's tenure. Are they too part of the lunatic fringe?

Your statement is not representative of what is being seen and heard in this market. I would be more than happy to link and reference many articles and podcasts to prove this point.

I’d say Benning is at best average. But I think you’re significantly undervaluing what he did in the draft. I don’t think it should be an expectation to get a franchise center and D with 5 top 10 picks and none above the fifth overall. Those guys usually are acquired with the first overall pick or second. I think getting two home runs plus Boeser with a late first is exceptional. And of course he should get credit for the drafting. I don’t see any logical argument why he shouldn’t.
On trades he’s been fairly good recently with the JT Miller trade being a home run and other trades like Leivo and Pearson being very solid.
His weaknesses are free agent signings where he’s generally terrible especially on overpaying bottom six guys, cap management and rebuilding the defense.
That’s why I’d rank him overall about average trying to balance out the good and the bad.

Saying Benning "is at best average" is starkly different than saying he "is about average overall". You've made both statements here. At best average is the same statement Ray Ferraro has made about Benning as well.

Of course, it is completely fair to give Benning credit for the drafting because he was the GM at the time. Many GMs have been given credit for the same. That said, Iain MacIntyre specifically distinguishes between Benning's 1st round choices and Brackett's 1st round choices. As in, Brackett made all of the picks save for Juolevi. This then outlines Benning's direct impact on the draft, credit or otherwise.

Last, if you took his entire trade record into account... well, you wouldn't choose the tact to highlight only a few of his recent moves.

I think what has happened on HF is that the more Benning's work is analyzed, the more it is found to be wanting. This level of critique is not permitted as it is here, and that's at once a credit to HF and a discredit to other sites/forums. Can he just be a bad GM when evaluating things through a baseline? Is that possible? Clearly, HF VAN thinks it is.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think this is Benning or Dorion. Both have made some high profile errors. Benning has made some brilliant decisions, as well, that balance out his big gaffes. Dorion is rebuilding a tough organization to work for. He might not be a good GM, but he might have the toughest situation to work with in the league, so putting Ottawa's rebuild on the right path should get him credit.

Just curious: Can you please elaborate on the big gaffes and brilliant decisions (that he has made)?

For reference, this is his transaction summary: Jim Benning Era Transaction Summary