The best GM, who's hated by his own team's fans?

[Kshahdoo]

Bergevin? Benning? Somebody else?

Click to read more...

 

[Gurglesons]

I’d go with Chayka, but I’m not sure the majority of Yotes fans “hate him”.

 

[Paralyzer008]

On first thought, Bergevin or Dubas, because they've done relatively fine jobs and you have to be perfect in Toronto/Montreal without half of the fans hating you.

 

[bobholly39]

Bergevin most hated, easily.

In terms of how good he is thats debatable. Probably good enough to still win the hate/good ratio, despite not being a particularly good gm

 

[Hostile Offer]

On first thought, Bergevin or Dubas, because they've done relatively fine jobs and you have to be perfect in Toronto/Montreal without half of the fans hating you.

Bergevin is absolutely clueless, most of the criticism towards him is justified. He looks like a decent enough GM when you look at his moves individually but the man has no idea how to build a Stanley Cup contender.

I think Benning gets way too much hate from the Canucks fanbase, he's sort of the opposite of Bergevin where some of his moves are puzzling at best individually yet he's quietly built a damn solid young team.

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

Dubas, if your a maple leafs GM you will be hated no matter what.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

I don't hate Lamoriello at all but it's a little disconcerting that (upon hire) he expected 50% turnover within a year or two of being hired and has pretty much resigned to do the opposite.

 

[NyQuil]

I think it's fair to say that this is Dorion.

He has an owner that makes his job almost impossible, he has a terrible way with words on television, and he's had to make some pretty unpopular trades in his tenure.

 

[Cloned]

Chevy in Winnipeg.

 

[Oddbob]

How would Bergevin be listed as good? Been with Montreal for 8 years, and they have many of the same issues since when he started.

 

[Henkka]

I've really started to respect Dorion when watching this rebuild. Ottawa is doing great.

Montreal has looked bad for long. Some hate is really deserved there.

 

[clydesdale line]

Stan Bowman is slowly getting there.

 

[bobholly39]

I think it's fair to say that this is Dorion.

He has an owner that makes his job almost impossible, he has a terrible way with words on television, and he's had to make some pretty unpopular trades in his tenure.

He's made some really bad trades, but especially Karlsson. There's been a lot of talk these past few months about 'Sens win Karlsson trade because he sucks now, look how good Dorion looks'. Not really. They should have gotten a lot more. It doesn't matter how good or bad Karlsson became after the trade, he was worth more at time of trade.

If Edmonton trades McDavid for 2 1st round picks tomorrow - and if McDavid instantly overnight becomes a 4th liner incapable of scoring more then 10 points a season - it's still a horrible trade from Edmonton because they should have been able to land 6 1st round picks for him. Same logic here, Karlsson was worth more at time of trade than his return.

I don't mind the Duchene trade as much as most as I think that was some pretty bad luck on their part - but Karlsson is where they should have found a better way to maximize his value. He arguably is the most valuable player in hockey to be traded in...i don't know how many years. But got nowhere near that value.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Stan Bowman is slowly getting there.

Slowly?

 

[MessierII]

I’d go with Chayka, but I’m not sure the majority of Yotes fans “hate him”.

Chayka is awful.

 

[Kshahdoo]

He's made some really bad trades, but especially Karlsson. There's been a lot of talk these past few months about 'Sens win Karlsson trade because he sucks now, look how good Dorion looks'. Not really. They should have gotten a lot more. It doesn't matter how good or bad Karlsson became after the trade, he was worth more at time of trade.

If Edmonton trades McDavid for 2 1st round picks tomorrow - and if McDavid instantly overnight becomes a 4th liner incapable of scoring more then 10 points a season - it's still a horrible trade from Edmonton because they should have been able to land 6 1st round picks for him. Same logic here, Karlsson was worth more at time of trade than his return.

I don't mind the Duchene trade as much as most as I think that was some pretty bad luck on their part - but Karlsson is where they should have found a better way to maximize his value. He arguably is the most valuable player in hockey to be traded in...i don't know how many years. But got nowhere near that value.

A lot of people on HF were pretty suspicious about Karlsson ability to stay at his top level even before the trade, and it looks like they were right. Do you really think, GMs are more stupid, than HFers?

 

[NyQuil]

I don't mind the Duchene trade as much as most as I think that was some pretty bad luck on their part - but Karlsson is where they should have found a better way to maximize his value. He arguably is the most valuable player in hockey to be traded in...i don't know how many years. But got nowhere near that value.

Well, I alluded to this in my post, but I've heard from a number of different sources that Melnyk gave Dorion an ultimatum and a deadline after hedging on a number of other deals that were better, essentially tying Dorion's hands.

Lack of action on Karlsson and endless questions about him had become an embarrassment to the organization and to Melnyk personally, so Eugene decided that he needed it dealt with prior to training camp. It's always tough to deal from a position of perceived desperation and within a narrow timeframe.

It was a bad deal and Dorion is fortunate that the San Jose Sharks struggled the way they did.

I will give Dorion credit in terms of the pieces he did get back - he failed to land any of the high-profile guys like Hertl or Meier, but Norris and Balcers have turned out pretty well so far as far as prospects.

 

[bobholly39]

A lot of people on HF were pretty suspicious about Karlsson ability to stay at his top level even before the trade, and it looks like they were right. Do you really think, GMs are more stupid, than HFers?

Yes, 100%. And it's not about "being more stupid than HF'ers" - but many gms are willing to pay high to get an elite player.

The timing of the trade was also horribly mis-managed, they could have maximized his value by trading him earlier or better managed some of the drama happening, all of which contributed to value falling. Also - i'm pretty sure we heard reports that Sens refused higher offers because they didn't want him to be on an eastern conference team. Who cares? That seems dumb.

 

[bobholly39]

Well, I alluded to this in my post, but I've heard from a number of different sources that Melnyk gave Dorion an ultimatum and a deadline after hedging on a number of other deals that were better, essentially tying Dorion's hands.

Lack of action on Karlsson and endless questions about him had become an embarrassment to the organization and Melnyk decided that he needed it dealt with prior to training camp. It's always tough to deal from a position of perceived desperation and within a narrow timeframe.

It was a bad deal and Dorion is fortunate that the San Jose Sharks struggled the way they did.

I will give Dorion credit in terms of the pieces he did get back - he failed to land any of the high-profile guys like Hertl or Meier, but Norris and Balcers have turned out pretty well so far as far as prospects.

To the bolded....sure, maybe. I know Melnyk is a pain to deal with, and maybe that trade has his hands all over it causing all these issues. I'm judging more on the actual results and how it was managed, then necessarily trying to properly determine who to point the finger at - but bottom line is it was a bad trade.

Erik Karlsson is the best player and most valuable player in the history of the Sens organization. Even if you have a terrible owner - you'd hope the GM can have enough of a backbone to reign him in a bit when the stakes were as high as that player.

 

[Mickey Marner]

To the bolded....sure, maybe. I know Melnyk is a pain to deal with, and maybe that trade has his hands all over it causing all these issues. I'm judging more on the actual results and how it was managed, then necessarily trying to properly determine who to point the finger at - but bottom line is it was a bad trade.

Erik Karlsson is the best player and most valuable player in the history of the Sens organization. Even if you have a terrible owner - you'd hope the GM can have enough of a backbone to reign him in a bit when the stakes were as high as that player.

Alfredsson was the best player before Karlsson and Melnyk nickel & dimed him out of the organization. The man has an unwavering desire to burn every bridge he's ever crossed in dramatic fashion.

 

[NyQuil]

To the bolded....sure, maybe. I know Melnyk is a pain to deal with, and maybe that trade has his hands all over it causing all these issues. I'm judging more on the actual results and how it was managed, then necessarily trying to properly determine who to point the finger at - but bottom line is it was a bad trade.

Erik Karlsson is the best player and most valuable player in the history of the Sens organization. Even if you have a terrible owner - you'd hope the GM can have enough of a backbone to reign him in a bit when the stakes were as high as that player.

Well, I indicated it was a bad trade. It surely was.

I've become more sympathetic to Dorion as time has gone on. Unfortunately his strengths in talent identification and scouting don't help him in dealing with his boss, and he's paid like an Assistant GM (which is probably what he should be).

Bryan Murray had a gift for managing Eugene Melnyk along with other members of the Senators executive. Unfortunately, Dorion doesn't appear to have it, and I suspect that he would be canned if he did summon up some kind of a backbone.

The timing of the trade was also horribly mis-managed, they could have maximized his value by trading him earlier or better managed some of the drama happening, all of which contributed to value falling. Also - i'm pretty sure we heard reports that Sens refused higher offers because they didn't want him to be on an eastern conference team. Who cares?

Among the "almost completed deals requiring just a signature" were deals to Las Vegas and Tampa Bay, as far as people I've spoken with who have some connection to the team.

My understanding was that Melnyk thought he could still get more, until he did a complete 180 degree turn and decided he had to be traded as quickly as possible at which point those other options were unavailable.

 

[Sanchise90]

I don't know how other Stars fans feel, but I have a love/hate relationship with Jim Nill. While his trades (Tyler Seguin, Ben Bishop) have been amazing, his drafting and coaching selections have been mediocre to say the least. Outside of Miro Heiskanen, who was a lottery gift from the gods, these have been the Stars first round picks since Nill has been our GM:

- Valeri Nichushkin
- Julius Honka
- Denis Gurianov
- Riley Tufte
- Jake Oettinger
- Ty Dellandrea
- Thomas Harley

When you combine that with the 4 coaches in his tenure already, 2 of which were questionable hirings at the time (Ruff, Hitchcock), its not surprising we've been so inconsistent throughout his tenure as a franchise. It's a weird love/hate with Jim Nill to say the least...

 

[Fixxer]

I think it's fair to say that this is Dorion.

He has an owner that makes his job almost impossible, he has a terrible way with words on television, and he's had to make some pretty unpopular trades in his tenure.

I agree with Dorion as a choice. As a Habs fan, I can't say Bergevin had to deal with budget cuts. Ok, he didn't use like 8 millions in a few years, but I believe he really tried to get free agents. MTL is not an attractive destination anymore (for star players).

Dorion and Boucher were clearly scapegoats for what's going on in Ottawa. Boucher lost his job.
They have a nice prospects pool. Dorion got good returns in for example, the Karlsson trade, and the future looks bright for them. Can't hate the guy for being "forced" to liquidate talent players who are due for a big paycheck.

And while I have not watched the video again, I remember how he's confronted by these guys and what can he say???
that the team got "better" by getting rid of contracts and future UFA/RFA. That's not on him, but on the owner.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I don't know how other Stars fans feel, but I have a love/hate relationship with Jim Nill. While his trades (Tyler Seguin, Ben Bishop) have been amazing, his drafting and coaching selections have been mediocre to say the least. Outside of Miro Heiskanen, who was a lottery gift from the gods, these have been the Stars first round picks since Nill has been our GM:

- Valeri Nichushkin
- Julius Honka
- Denis Gurianov
- Riley Tufte
- Jake Oettinger
- Ty Dellandrea
- Thomas Harley

When you combine that with the 4 coaches in his tenure already, 2 of which were questionable hirings at the time (Ruff, Hitchcock), its not surprising we've been so inconsistent throughout his tenure as a franchise. It's a weird love/hate with Jim Nill to say the least...

Gurianov scored 20 goals in 64 games, and Nichushkin was playing on Avs top6 in the last games. They were probably not the best options as 12 and 10 OA picks, but they look as solid NHLers now.

 

[Wats]

On first thought, Bergevin or Dubas, because they've done relatively fine jobs and you have to be perfect in Toronto/Montreal without half of the fans hating you.

Perfect, how about not being the worst in franchise history. Leading team to worst 5 years run: Missed playoffs 4/5 years (the Covid-19 play-in doesn't count IMO) and 0 playoff round wins. Doesn't look like it'll get better soon with Weber/Price approaching mid 30s and becoming injury prone.

Before he took over, team made playoffs 4/5 years. He is still living off that core making playoffs for him in his year 1-3 with him making minimal changes. Moment he started to make key personnel moves, game over.