The Babcocalypse: Babcock to Toronto II

[19 for president]

I'm not surprised. The vets haven't looked like they were having any fun in quite awhile, outside of when one of the kids did something amazing. His system took most of the creativity out of the game. Our Euros are not used to playing that way. The longer Babs was here the more we looked like his Ducks squad, and went away from a real puck possession squad. That can't be enjoyable after awhile. I mean having 3 really successful years in 10, and not making it past the 2nd round since 08/09, will wear on players when you have a coach as demanding as Babs. I never thought he was coming back, and I think it was a good decision on both sides. It remains to be seen if Blash will be a decent coach, but Babs was no longer the right coach for the Wings.

Personally I don't see him as the right coach for Toronto either. By the time Toronto is good enough to compete, he will have started to wear thin there too.

 

[Henkka]

I'm not surprised. The vets haven't looked like they were having any fun in quite awhile, outside of when one of the kids did something amazing. His system took most of the creativity out of the game. Our Euros are not used to playing that way. The longer Babs was here the more we looked like his Ducks squad, and went away from a real puck possession squad. That can't be enjoyable after awhile. I mean having 3 really successful years in 10, and not making it past the 2nd round since 08/09, will wear on players when you have a coach as demanding as Babs. I never thought he was coming back, and I think it was a good decision on both sides. It remains to be seen if Blash will be a decent coach, but Babs was no longer the right coach for the Wings.

Personally I don't see him as the right coach for Toronto either. By the time Toronto is good enough to compete, he will have started to wear thin there too.

It would have been interesting to see Babcock at St. Louis. That roster is maybe most perfectly built for his hockey vision.

Imo, 2005-08 Wings were heavily influenced by Todd McLellan's vision. He run the offense then. After he left to San Jose, new ideas came from Paul MacLean for next 2 years and it look a bit different then. That great 2008-09 team (greatest pure player material ever after the first lockout) played worse hockey than our SC group year before.

After MacLean left after 2010-11, at same time we had lost our skill edge thanks to success = salary raises, and we went on this "Anaheim '03" -mode for Babcock's last years. Can't blaim the decision. When you don't have enough skill, grinding defensive hockey is the way to go. Push the scoring down and win through strong special teams and line matching. He took everything out from our depleted roster.

Now, for becoming season, I think we are on a situation where our skill level is almost as high as it was from 2005 to 2009. At least, better level than it ever was from 2010 to 2015. Time to do some damage again with an offensively attractive game.

And I think we have the right coach to complete that game.

 

[HomersWorld]

I think of the famous Lafleur quote on Bowman, then you apply it to Mike Babcock the last few years

"You hate his guts for 364 days a year, and on the 365th, you get dumped in the 1st round"

Doesn't have quite the same ring does it? And I'm speaking as a Babcock fan.

That's too good.

 

[Heaton]

I'm not surprised. The vets haven't looked like they were having any fun in quite awhile, outside of when one of the kids did something amazing. His system took most of the creativity out of the game. Our Euros are not used to playing that way. The longer Babs was here the more we looked like his Ducks squad, and went away from a real puck possession squad. That can't be enjoyable after awhile. I mean having 3 really successful years in 10, and not making it past the 2nd round since 08/09, will wear on players when you have a coach as demanding as Babs. I never thought he was coming back, and I think it was a good decision on both sides. It remains to be seen if Blash will be a decent coach, but Babs was no longer the right coach for the Wings.

Personally I don't see him as the right coach for Toronto either. By the time Toronto is good enough to compete, he will have started to wear thin there too.

Now they can have fun losing in the 1st round instead.

But seriously, this team needs more talent, with or without Babcock - it's a tough road to be a contender as is.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Not sure if there is anything to read within that statement. To me that seems more like a play it safe cliche 'we all decided it was time to move on'.

that seems like a hes sick and tired of babcock.

I mean im pretty sure hes tired of cleary, He gave him a couple death stares the past year or 2

 

[Actual Thought*]

I think some were skeptical that the vets were ready, or in need of a new voice. I think the quote could be some support that was in fact the case.

I wouldn't expect Z to say anything other than what he said. Do you really expect him to say "I want Mike back" or "Blashill is a rookie and really failed to translate at the NHL level as an asst"? He threw out cliche answers just like I would expect. It is the youngsters who seem excited about camp cupcake being the new norm. I didn't see much of an endorsement either way from Z.

 

[JPE123]

Well, we already beat Babcock out of Cleary so there's that

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'm not surprised. The vets haven't looked like they were having any fun in quite awhile, outside of when one of the kids did something amazing. His system took most of the creativity out of the game. Our Euros are not used to playing that way. The longer Babs was here the more we looked like his Ducks squad, and went away from a real puck possession squad. That can't be enjoyable after awhile. I mean having 3 really successful years in 10, and not making it past the 2nd round since 08/09, will wear on players when you have a coach as demanding as Babs. I never thought he was coming back, and I think it was a good decision on both sides. It remains to be seen if Blash will be a decent coach, but Babs was no longer the right coach for the Wings.

Personally I don't see him as the right coach for Toronto either. By the time Toronto is good enough to compete, he will have started to wear thin there too.

Pav and Z probably aren't having much fun as their bodies continue to break down and they are forced to play hard minutes since drafting and development haven't produced much in the way of guys who can replace #13 and #40.

I disagree entirely about Tatar and Nyquist, they look like they are having a ball. Their offensive production has both been very strong, which doesn't fit with this idea that Babcock limited their offensive potential. I've said it before but every offensive d-man other than Chris Chelios - who was well past his prime - had his best offensive production in Detroit. Kronwall developed fully under Babcock.

It's safe to say you are trying to make lemonade. It is quite peculiar to lose arguably the best coach in the sport and suggest it is a good thing.

 

[Frk It]

I wouldn't expect Z to say anything other than what he said. Do you really expect him to say "I want Mike back" or "Blashill is a rookie and really failed to translate at the NHL level as an asst"? He threw out cliche answers just like I would expect. It is the youngsters who seem excited about camp cupcake being the new norm. I didn't see much of an endorsement either way from Z.

Our captain said outright the players were ready for someone new. Seems like an endorsement to me.

It's not any less valid than some of the statements you have taken and tried to spin negatively against Blashill.

"Camp cupcake"? Where do you even come up with this stuff???????

 

[SoupNazi]

I wouldn't expect Z to say anything other than what he said. Do you really expect him to say "I want Mike back" or "Blashill is a rookie and really failed to translate at the NHL level as an asst"? He threw out cliche answers just like I would expect. It is the youngsters who seem excited about camp cupcake being the new norm. I didn't see much of an endorsement either way from Z.

How do you know the Wings are now going to be "camp cupcake?"

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I wouldn't expect Z to say anything other than what he said. Do you really expect him to say "I want Mike back" or "Blashill is a rookie and really failed to translate at the NHL level as an asst"? He threw out cliche answers just like I would expect. It is the youngsters who seem excited about camp cupcake being the new norm. I didn't see much of an endorsement either way from Z.

I think players are happy they have a coach who got them a Calder Cup

but what do i no

 

[Actual Thought*]

Our captain said outright the players were ready for someone new. Seems like an endorsement to me.

It's not any less valid than some of the statements you have taken and tried to spin negatively against Blashill.

"Camp cupcake"? Where do you even come up with this stuff???????

How do you know the Wings are now going to be "camp cupcake?"

I think players are happy they have a coach who got them a Calder Cup

but what do i no

2 words. Player's Coach.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

2 words. Player's Coach.

What makes you think that?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

The belief that the Wings will be in great shape if Blashill is an amazing coach is pretty ridiculous. They were a mediocre team with Babcock. Blashill could be the best coach on the planet and they will still be a mediocre team.

 

[Actual Thought*]

What makes you think that?

All the warm fuzzy things the kids say about how much better he is at "talking" to them. How ineffective he was as an NHL assistant. How excited the GR guys seem to be at his hiring. He is definitely warmer and fuzzier than Babs or Bowman were. This reminds me very much of when Lewis was hired except Lewis was a very effective asst. at the NHL level. Players being happy about a coach is probably an indication that they believe he will make their life easier. I don't want a coach who makes their life easier. I want a coach that is extremely demanding and holds them accountable. We will see but I am less than excited. I think people fail to realize that Babcock teams almost always overachieve. He squeezed every bit of juice his roster had to give. Very, very few coaches can say that. I think there is about a .00001% chance that Blash is an upgrade or even equal new voice or not.

People gripe constantly about how bad our players are. How bad Holland is. Yet somehow a fresh voice is going to push them over the top? That's silly. If our roster is as bad as most here seem to think then the last thing we need is a rookie coach. We need an overachieving coach like Babcock to have any shot at all. Instead we got the guy Babs demoted.

 

[Frk It]

All the warm fuzzy things the kids say about how much better he is at "talking" to them.

A coach who is an effective communicator, yeah what a terrible thing to have.... said no one EVER

And this "warm, fuzzy" things came from absolutely no where. It's something you made up out of thin air and keep repeating to go with your agenda.

Babcock left. He was ready to leave. He WANTED to leave. There wasn't really an option to keep him if he wanted to. Gotta get over it already. He gave us 10 great years and a Cup. But everything's gotta end eventually, man.

 

[HomersWorld]

All the warm fuzzy things the kids say about how much better he is at "talking" to them. How ineffective he was as an NHL assistant. How excited the GR guys seem to be at his hiring. He is definitely warmer and fuzzier than Babs or Bowman were. This reminds me very much of when Lewis was hired except Lewis was a very effective asst. at the NHL level. Players being happy about a coach is probably an indication that they believe he will make their life easier. I don't want a coach who makes their life easier. I want a coach that is extremely demanding and holds them accountable. We will see but I am less than excited. I think people fail to realize that Babcock teams almost always overachieve. He squeezed every bit of juice his roster had to give. Very, very few coaches can say that. I think there is about a .00001% chance that Blash is an upgrade or even equal new voice or not.

People gripe constantly about how bad our players are. How bad Holland is. Yet somehow a fresh voice is going to push them over the top? That's silly. If our roster is as bad as most here seem to think then the last thing we need is a rookie coach. We need an overachieving coach like Babcock to have any shot at all. Instead we got the guy Babs demoted.

Comparing Jeff Blashill to Dave Lewis is such an off base comparison. What is similar about them? 1 year of being an assistant coach to the team that hired them? Dave Lewis had never been a head coach, at any level, before being promoted by the Red Wings. Blashill has been the head coach at multiple levels, and a very successful one at that. It seems obvious that whatever sort of head coach Blashill is, his methods have worked at every level he's been at, and have worked with half of the roster he is inheriting, as they won a championship together. It isn't hard for me to imagine why a player would be excited about having the coach that took them to a championship taking over.

Interesting to note that Babcock teams "almost always" overachieve. He's only made it out of the second round 4 times in his career and his teams had home ice advantage in every round of the playoffs in 3 of those years. I'd say Babcock overachieved twice, his rookie year with the Ducks and the lockout year here. How do you define "almost always"? I'm looking at the numbers now, I see this:

02-03 Ducks - 8th in the Western Conference - Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
03-04 Ducks - Missed Playoffs
04-05 - Lockout
05-06 Wings - President's Trophy Winners - Lost in First Round
06-07 Wings - 1st in the Western Conference - Lost in Conference Finals
07-08 Wings - President's Trophy Winners - Won Stanley Cup
08-09 Wings - 2nd in Western Conference - Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
09-10 Wings - 5th in the Western Conference - Lost in the Second Round
10-11 Wings - 3rd in the Western Conference - Lost in the Second Round
11-12 Wings - 5th in the Western Conference - Lost in the First Round
12-13 Wings - 7th in the Western Conference - Lost in the Second Round
13-14 Wings - 2nd Wildcard - Lost in the First Round
14-15 Wings - 3rd in the Division - Lost in the First Round

Outside of his rookie run with the Ducks, I think he's only beaten two higher seeded teams in the playoffs. It seems like the results are pretty much as expected except for the embarrassment against the Oilers. If you want to say making the playoffs 2 years ago was over achieving too, alright I'll give that to you. That year is just painful for me to think about because that's the year Babcock's "the tie goes to the vet" landed our two top goal scorers in the press box and the minors to start the season and there were a million injuries. Luckily all of those Blashill developed rookies were able to step in and help make that playoff push

 

[SpookyTsuki]

All the warm fuzzy things the kids say about how much better he is at "talking" to them. How ineffective he was as an NHL assistant. How excited the GR guys seem to be at his hiring. He is definitely warmer and fuzzier than Babs or Bowman were. This reminds me very much of when Lewis was hired except Lewis was a very effective asst. at the NHL level. Players being happy about a coach is probably an indication that they believe he will make their life easier. I don't want a coach who makes their life easier. I want a coach that is extremely demanding and holds them accountable. We will see but I am less than excited. I think people fail to realize that Babcock teams almost always overachieve. He squeezed every bit of juice his roster had to give. Very, very few coaches can say that. I think there is about a .00001% chance that Blash is an upgrade or even equal new voice or not.

People gripe constantly about how bad our players are. How bad Holland is. Yet somehow a fresh voice is going to push them over the top? That's silly. If our roster is as bad as most here seem to think then the last thing we need is a rookie coach. We need an overachieving coach like Babcock to have any shot at all. Instead we got the guy Babs demoted.

I want a coach that helps me win, and Blash helped them win a calder cup.

 

[Yemack]

Comparing Jeff Blashill to Dave Lewis is such an off base comparison. What is similar about them? 1 year of being an assistant coach to the team that hired them? Dave Lewis had never been a head coach, at any level, before being promoted by the Red Wings. Blashill has been the head coach at multiple levels, and a very successful one at that. It seems obvious that whatever sort of head coach Blashill is, his methods have worked at every level he's been at, and have worked with half of the roster he is inheriting, as they won a championship together. It isn't hard for me to imagine why a player would be excited about having the coach that took them to a championship taking over.

Interesting to note that Babcock teams "almost always" overachieve. He's only made it out of the second round 4 times in his career and his teams had home ice advantage in every round of the playoffs in 3 of those years. I'd say Babcock overachieved twice, his rookie year with the Ducks and the lockout year here. How do you define "almost always"? I'm looking at the numbers now, I see this:

02-03 Ducks - 8th in the Western Conference - Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
03-04 Ducks - Missed Playoffs
04-05 - Lockout
05-06 Wings - President's Trophy Winners - Lost in First Round
06-07 Wings - 1st in the Western Conference - Lost in Conference Finals
07-08 Wings - President's Trophy Winners - Won Stanley Cup
08-09 Wings - 2nd in Western Conference - Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
09-10 Wings - 5th in the Western Conference - Lost in the Second Round
10-11 Wings - 3rd in the Western Conference - Lost in the Second Round
11-12 Wings - 5th in the Western Conference - Lost in the First Round
12-13 Wings - 7th in the Western Conference - Lost in the Second Round
13-14 Wings - 2nd Wildcard - Lost in the First Round
14-15 Wings - 3rd in the Division - Lost in the First Round

Outside of his rookie run with the Ducks, I think he's only beaten two higher seeded teams in the playoffs. It seems like the results are pretty much as expected except for the embarrassment against the Oilers. If you want to say making the playoffs 2 years ago was over achieving too, alright I'll give that to you. That year is just painful for me to think about because that's the year Babcock's "the tie goes to the vet" landed our two top goal scorers in the press box and the minors to start the season and there were a million injuries. Luckily all of those Blashill developed rookies were able to step in and help make that playoff push

you have to expect a bit of revisionist history going on now that he's on the other team. I was a strong supporter of Babcock and honestly I find the tone of this thread bit petty ... but now that he's working for Leafs who cares?

still it's a proper thing to give him credit for the good jobs he did. He's most certainly served this team well.

 

[Frk It]

"Tie goes to the veteran". Not gonna miss that **** for 1 second.

 

[Frk It]

Didn't know the Leafs hired Ken Holland's son... pretty interesting.

 

[Kronwalled55]

"Tie goes to the veteran". Not gonna miss that **** for 1 second.

Me either, his philosophy was dated and didn't fit our organization anymore. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it. But with a full rebuilding team, his ways might be beneficial for the Leafs. There's a fine line between becoming the Edmonton Oilers and becoming a contender in 3 years.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

"Tie goes to the veteran". Not gonna miss that **** for 1 second.

In some instances I can still understand that sentiment, but it has to be on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Henkka]

"Tie goes to the veteran". Not gonna miss that **** for 1 second.

Got a good laugh when I saw that.

 

[Retire91]

"Tie goes to the veteran". Not gonna miss that **** for 1 second.

Not an actual tie but one fabricated in his mind no less.