OT: The Avalounge: It's My Thread You Just Post In It
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UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
hockeyfish
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2002
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When you say interest is forbidden, is that only on the debt side? Are you allowed to earn interest?
Alex Jones
BIG BOWL 'A CHILI!!
From my understanding lending is fine, but not paying off a debt is considered a major sin.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Simply put, interest cannot be paid nor accumulated. I have a credit card, but I ensure that I pay it off prior to interest accumulating. I also bought a brand new car in 2014, but I haggled with the salesmen to give me 36 months of payments interest-free prior to it kicking in. I knew that I would be able to pay the car off in 3 years, which I have, and thus no interest was paid.
With regard to houses, the best way I can explain it in Islam is this:
The bank buys the house for itself first, and then sells it to you for a given price. It is essential that the contract be free of any stipulation of interest, which is the condition that a penalty be paid in the event of any delay in paying instalments, because stipulating this penalty is interest and forbidden. It should make the house collateral until the instalments are paid off in full, so as to protect its rights.
Basically, in Islam if I purchase something for $1, I have the right to sell it to you for $1,000,000 if I choose. But I do not have the right to sell that same item to you for $1 but state that you are to pay me that $1 10 years from now, and each day that passes 10% interest is accrued.
So the bank can buy a house valued at $300,000 and sell it to me for $500,000, and I know that I am paying $500,000 regardless of how long it takes me to pay off that house. But they cannot sell it to me for $300,000 with a 2.99% interest mortgage over 25 years or whatever mortgages are like.
There are religious "quotes" (we call them "Hadiths") from the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and also many, many mentions of interest being forbidden in the Quran. But that's getting into far too much detail lol.
It is forbidden on both the giving and receiving side. You are not allowed to accumulate interest nor are you allowed to pay interest.
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- Dec 4, 2002
- 10,654
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OK. I was about to ask how on earth banks in muslim-majority countries stay in business. That clears it up.
So perhaps I could put it this way, and be accurate: interest is forbidden, however profit is permitted.
Interesting discussion, Dahrougem. I'm glad you brought it up.
UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
Very interesting indeed. Come to think of it, the Bible does have stuff in it about usury. A similar thought behind it no doubt.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Yeah it is interesting, I had no idea. I think it would be safe to say a lot of us would be interested in learning more kinds of differences like this.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Eagles deserve some love too. Won 12 in a row. If y'all want one for DU though go ahead.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Yes, profit is never frowned upon in Islam. In fact, it is heavily encouraged to invest money in manners that are acceptable in order to grow your wealth so long as no interest is involved.
More than happy to discuss things like that.
LieutenantDangle
Barry McKockner
Just got done with my 2016 taxes and I'm having a Ron Swanson moment.
When did it require a PHD in Accounting/Physics/Rocket Science to complete your taxes....holy cripes.
amen. this is the first year I've really had to file for income in multiple states. its like trying to solve a rubik's cube through only trial and error
How come it is so hard for you guys? I'm done with my tax reports in like 5 minutes when I just fix the loan interests and investment incomes there. Most people don't do have to do anything, everything is pretty much automatic. People might want to fix some things like kilometer allowance to their report which is pretty much prefilled but that is it.
Are your tax reports very detailed and you have to fill everything by yourselves?
I knew about the interest thing but didn't know how things work in reality because of the problems it causes. Thanks for sharing, nice reading this stuff!
Are your tax reports very detailed and you have to fill everything by yourselves?
I knew about the interest thing but didn't know how things work in reality because of the problems it causes. Thanks for sharing, nice reading this stuff!
dahrougem2
Registered User
Anytime.
Personally, I feel that if North American banks adopted an interest-free model there would be a lot less people in debt.
Banks would still be able to make their money, but it would provide a hell of a lot more leeway for home-buyers and the financial burden wouldn't be so harsh.
At least in Poland I have some forms I have to fill in which is more complicated than in Finland, but I would not say too complicated.
Also, I got an invoice from KELA (our state social security firm) for 1300€.
Ouch. Apparently me changing some investments in 2015 (and they were really profitable at the time) made my capital income increase too much for my student benefits.
It is stupid as hell since I re-invested all that money+ more.
I have to talk to them if we can come up with some compromise but I highly doubt it.
Also, the fact they send me a bill for things about 2015 in February 2017 is sketchy as hell.
The student benefit system is very flawed. I haven't gotten a penny of student benefit. But it is a good thing to have. KELA can be a nuisance, good luck with that..
I'm taking all student loans too and investing them. You don't have to pay back even close to the full amount. Shame I didn't take them in the first two years..
Yes, I also started to take the student loans too late, but at least I took out some.
And I always thought you had to pay back the full amount.
I was quite sure you have to.
Yeah, I didn't know about the student loan system too well until a friend of mine who has invested his student loans in stocks and investment funds briefed me. I'll be doing the same thing. I calculated that I "win" a few thousand euros (+the interests from investments) if I graduate on time which won't be a problem.
Question to all of you:
There is no tipping culture in Finland. I have left tip maybe once in my life here and it felt a little awkward. But my question is, how do you Americans (and others too where tipping is a norm) feel about tipping culture? Do you like it or should it be removed?
A famous Finnish chef (don't think he uses ketchup to spice his foods) suggested that restaurants shouldn't have to pay double salary for staff who work in Sundays. Instead he suggested bringing tipping culture to Finland (of course, it would be a great thing for him). It didn't bother me when I visited USA, but there were a few times when I definitely felt a waitress wasn't being even close to honest with her words and smile. Does this happen to you guys ever and if it does, does it bother you? I like the fact that it encourages employees to serve customer well, but it went a little overboard a few times.. I wouldn't personally be against it as it would fix some things, but it has problems too IMO.
UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
As far as our taxes go, as a student, I barely have to do anything and I still don't know what the hell is going on.
Oh yeah I just found out about the student loan thing too. You graduate on time and the State will cover for like a third of your loan. Totally gonna withdraw all of it and use none of it, then give it back.
Also, I'm about to land a part time job "coaching" soccer to 6 and 7-year-olds. I'm a terrible hire.
Oh yeah I just found out about the student loan thing too. You graduate on time and the State will cover for like a third of your loan. Totally gonna withdraw all of it and use none of it, then give it back.
Also, I'm about to land a part time job "coaching" soccer to 6 and 7-year-olds. I'm a terrible hire.
My original plan right there. But I thought what the hell, I should invest the money. Investment funds are a great target if you don't want to be active. I just checked, Euribor12 attached student loan has 0,5% interest from Nordea. That's nothing.
Nice. I have many friends who have done that. They have enjoyed it even if it's nothing fancy
UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
Nice. I have many friends who have done that. They have enjoyed it even if it's nothing fancy
What's fun is, it's actually a junior team (although my group will be preschoolers) and I can barely play a lick of soccer.
Finally I had qualifications that were good for something.
- Dec 4, 2002
- 10,654
- 1,588
If I may continue this just a little further...
How do you invest your money? And where do you put your cash?
Even if you put your cash in the average bank, it earns some interest (albeit a very low amount in today's world). Do you find safe places to put money, where interest isn't applied?
And do stock dividends count as interest? I'm wondering if you can go the stock market route, but find stocks that don't have dividends.
As I said earlier, I had no idea. I do a lot of investing and home buying and such. I find this really interesting.
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