Speculation: The Atlantic City experiment

[GhostofKenKlee]

Are Snider and the Flyers so worried about the Devils that they would really block games from being broadcasted in South Jersey?

Flyers fans and their families are not going to all of a sudden change fandom because Devils games become available on cable tv.

Did Yankees fans become Mets fans when their games start being shown on tv back in the day? Not the best example but you get my drift.

Make Devils games available in South Jersey, even have fans pay a few bucks extra surcharge at first to gauge an interest.

I personally know many Devils fans who live in South Jersey, out of the MSG+ "area".
Some moved there and some are from there, it's unfair for them not to be able to watch their home state team on MSG+ with the pregame and postgame shows-and Devils coverage. (even if Cangy, Deb and Chico can be painful some night).

Why should the Flyers get a tv monopoly in that market while the Devils, Rags and Isles have to share their tv market?

I know Philly is closer to South Jersey but show both team's games, why not try to grow the game more?

Anyone know the tv cutoff lines for the Flyers & Penguins in PA?

PA is wacky you have markets closer to Philly that are Steelers Country and north of Philly is a strong Jets/Giants fanbase as well.

It's not just hockey, YES and SNY are blacked out as well and both are frozen out of Comcast cable period. So you can watch SNY in sd and YES in HD but no games in real times

I would love an answer from the Devils brass, if they paid a territorial penetration fee to three franchises, why have they never activated their southern flank in which they paid a fee to? it really makes zero sense. I guess the knock on MSG is they also carry NY teams so that really violate the NHL agreement.

it really makes no sense, you can watch Chicago news in south jersey but can't any NYC coverage.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

Honestly, why would South Jersey fans root for the Devils? To go to home games, it's either an easy 2 1/2 hour drive there, not to mention you have that same drive back AFTER the game, even on a weeknight, or a ridiculous bus or train trip with connections galore. Philly is an hour drive/train ride on average from everywhere in south jersey. It's just not smart or economically wise of them to root for the Devils...

Depends on what you consider south jersey, my friend in Bergen considers Old Bridge South Jersey.

Depends where you live, if you live off a exit 5 and up it's not as bad s you make it out to be. Exit 5 to Newark is akin to driving to Atlantic City for a night out. if you live in that area, you are also are inclined to go to events in the NYC market as well or are driving to AC for concerts as well. All of them are 65 miles plus. But yes, if you live below part of Burlington County it becomes a trek.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

I'm 6 hours from jersey, never stopped me from being a fan. Poor excuse

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

This is a problem Giants fans are upset are having upstate with the Bills the lines are getting murky and Buffalo is attempting to assert itself as the team upstate upsetting Giants and Jets fans outside the Buffalo market, but closer to NYC.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Honestly, why would South Jersey fans root for the Devils? To go to home games, it's either an easy 2 1/2 hour drive there, not to mention you have that same drive back AFTER the game, even on a weeknight, or a ridiculous bus or train trip with connections galore. Philly is an hour drive/train ride on average from everywhere in south jersey. It's just not smart or economically wise of them to root for the Devils...

Well, many people from North Jersey have moved and are moving to towns such as Galloway (near AC) and Cherry Hill due to economic reasons.

They can still go to weekend games and also want to follow them on tv.

Atlantic City is different than let's say Camden County.
You have a ton of transplants from North Jersey in that area and it's also a tourist destination. Plus it's far enough away from Philly.

Let's start small and add Atlantic County to the MSG+ area.
I believe nearby LBI, Stafford Township and Forked River, all in Ocean County, get both Devils and Flyers games.
Why not add Atlantic City, it would boost bar revenues for sure if they Devils, Yankees, Mets games were on broadcast cable down there.

 

[BringBackTheRats]

A-devs season ticket holder here. This question has been floating around for most of the year up here because of the consistently poor attendance. I would argue the attendance problem is partly to blame on the organization's relationship with this city over the past decade. The main majority of Devils fans in Upstate NY exist because of the relationship with the Albany River Rats through 2006. The River Rats were always Albany's team. Everyone around here loved that logo, mascot, etc. It was our sports team. Then the Devils organization not only bailed on us for Lowell for 4 years, but they come back and say they are taking the River Rats away in exchange for the big club's name/****** A logo. It left a bad taste in people's mouths. I know plenty of Rags/Sabres/Bruins fans that all loved the Rats even though they were the Devils farm team, just because of the history of the team in this city.

The organization really dropped the ball on making it work again here. There is hardly any advertising for it now and the ticket promotions are lackluster. Add that on top of the fact that around 25% of the New Jersey games are actually televised because Rags/Sabres/Isles takes precedent on the two MSG channels we get AND we are still in the blackout area on Gamecenter for the Devils which means you HAVE to stream games (AKA there are no kids watching NJ games around here, even if they wanted to). The only other team in the TU Center is Siena college basketball, so Albany County is going to do everything in their power to make it affordable to keep the team here. If the organization doesn't really care about marketing/making money on the farm club I see them staying in Albany. If the new owners actually give a **** about it, they'll be outta here.

 

[Devils Dominion]

The NHL blackout rules are archaic and plain and simple, STUPID.

Let fans in "border" or "in between" areas choose which team they want to watch, don't force feed them one.

Albany is a great example.
Their local club's parent team is the Devils, Newark is the same distance or even close than Buffalo, Manhattan and Long Island.
Why are only 25% of NJ Devils games available? Makes little sense.
It would only help Albany if fans are able to see their graduated players play in the NHL in NJ.

Let me guess that in Scranton/WB PA people get all Pens games, even though Pittsburgh is like a 6 hour drive away from there.

NHL favortism to certain franchises and dumb/archaic broadcast rules/rights.

 

[Mory Schneideur*]

The NHL blackout rules are archaic and plain and simple, STUPID.

Let fans in "border" or "in between" areas choose which team they want to watch, don't force feed them one.

Albany is a great example.
Their local club's parent team is the Devils, Newark is the same distance or even close than Buffalo, Manhattan and Long Island.
Why are only 25% of NJ Devils games available? Makes little sense.
It would only help Albany if fans are able to see their graduated players play in the NHL in NJ.

Let me guess that in Scranton/WB PA people get all Pens games, even though Pittsburgh is like a 6 hour drive away from there.

NHL favortism to certain franchises and dumb/archaic broadcast rules/rights.

We will get Penguins games on a regular basis before you see Devils games regularly in or outside the state beyond Bergen County.

Mgmt should try to change that.

 

[BadFella]

Besides how widely available is FIOS in Comcast country? It's still five years out from being statewide.

My folks live in Comcast Country and they have FiOS, but on the other hand, I have relatives who live a mile away from them and they can't get FiOS. It's a mess.

But that's Central Jersey. In Atlantic City, SNY, YES, and MSG aren't even available as premium channels on Comcrap. Since Comcast owns the Flyers, I don't know if the Devils/Rangers can do anything about it.

We will get Penguins games on a regular basis before you see Devils games regularly in or outside the state beyond Bergen County.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. FiOS is great for hockey. MSG/MSG+/MSG2/MSG+2 are all readily available and included when needed (like if the Knicks, Rangers, Devils and Islanders are all playing on a Saturday).

A-devs season ticket holder here. This question has been floating around for most of the year up here because of the consistently poor attendance. I would argue the attendance problem is partly to blame on the organization's relationship with this city over the past decade. The main majority of Devils fans in Upstate NY exist because of the relationship with the Albany River Rats through 2006. The River Rats were always Albany's team. Everyone around here loved that logo, mascot, etc. It was our sports team. Then the Devils organization not only bailed on us for Lowell for 4 years, but they come back and say they are taking the River Rats away in exchange for the big club's name/****** A logo. It left a bad taste in people's mouths. I know plenty of Rags/Sabres/Bruins fans that all loved the Rats even though they were the Devils farm team, just because of the history of the team in this city.

The organization really dropped the ball on making it work again here. There is hardly any advertising for it now and the ticket promotions are lackluster. Add that on top of the fact that around 25% of the New Jersey games are actually televised because Rags/Sabres/Isles takes precedent on the two MSG channels we get AND we are still in the blackout area on Gamecenter for the Devils which means you HAVE to stream games (AKA there are no kids watching NJ games around here, even if they wanted to). The only other team in the TU Center is Siena college basketball, so Albany County is going to do everything in their power to make it affordable to keep the team here. If the organization doesn't really care about marketing/making money on the farm club I see them staying in Albany. If the new owners actually give a **** about it, they'll be outta here.

I know what you mean. The Trenton Titans were a beloved team in Central Jersey, but then after they won a championship, the Devils bought the team, and a year later, renamed them to the Trenton Devils. Attendance suffered.

That part of Mercer County (Trenton;Hamilton;Lawrenceville) leans strongly towards Philly teams. What's in a name? A lot. I liked the name change, as one of the few people who liked both the Titans and the Devils... but most of the ticket-and-merch-buying locals didn't care for the Devils branding at all. So the Devils shut down the team, and then someone else brought the franchise back as the Titans, but it never recovered.

But presuming that the Devs don't rename the team, I suppose you're saying that they're better off abandoning Albany?

Devils should make Trenton their AHL affiliate and AC their ECHL and tried to get some type of media coverage in the region. However, this is all just golden showers in the wind.

The Devils (and the Flyers) tried the Trenton ECHL thing for a number of years. It didn't work. The only sports team that plays in their building now is a Lingerie Football League team.

Personally, I wish they had moved the NHL Devils from East Rutherford to Trenton rather than to Newark, as Trenton being the capital city and in the center is more accessible for a pan-Jersey team than any other city.

Trenton is the terminal for the Northeast Corridor line to North Jersey/Manhattan, as well as the terminal for SEPTA to Philadelphia, and the terminal for the River Line to Camden, which allows for transfers to the Atlantic City line at Pennsauken.

But I guess if they had moved to Trenton, they would've had to pay the Flyers an invader tax or something. Oh well.

 

[Devils Dominion]

My folks live in Comcast Country and they have FiOS, but on the other hand, I have relatives who live a mile away from them and they can't get FiOS. It's a mess.

But that's Central Jersey. In Atlantic City, SNY, YES, and MSG aren't even available as premium channels on Comcrap. Since Comcast owns the Flyers, I don't know if the Devils/Rangers can do anything about it.



I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. FiOS is great for hockey. MSG/MSG+/MSG2/MSG+2 are all readily available and included when needed (like if the Knicks, Rangers, Devils and Islanders are all playing on a Saturday).



I know what you mean. The Trenton Titans were a beloved team in Central Jersey, but then after they won a championship, the Devils bought the team, and a year later, renamed them to the Trenton Devils. Attendance suffered.

That part of Mercer County (Trenton;Hamilton;Lawrenceville) leans strongly towards Philly teams. What's in a name? A lot. I liked the name change, as one of the few people who liked both the Titans and the Devils... but most of the ticket-and-merch-buying locals didn't care for the Devils branding at all. So the Devils shut down the team, and then someone else brought the franchise back as the Titans, but it never recovered.

But presuming that the Devs don't rename the team, I suppose you're saying that they're better off abandoning Albany?



The Devils (and the Flyers) tried the Trenton ECHL thing for a number of years. It didn't work. The only sports team that plays in their building now is a Lingerie Football League team.

Personally, I wish they had moved the NHL Devils from East Rutherford to Trenton rather than to Newark, as Trenton being the capital city and in the center is more accessible for a pan-Jersey team than any other city.

Trenton is the terminal for the Northeast Corridor line to North Jersey/Manhattan, as well as the terminal for SEPTA to Philadelphia, and the terminal for the River Line to Camden, which allows for transfers to the Atlantic City line at Pennsauken.

But I guess if they had moved to Trenton, they would've had to pay the Flyers an invader tax or something. Oh well.

LOL, that is a very bad idea.
Trenton is a minor league/rinky dink town, not a big city that can host an NHL squad.
Newark is the most accessible city in the state if not the region via public transportation and highways.
Compare how many train lines go through Newark compared to Trenton.

People just don't want to go to Trenton to watch minmor league hockey.
The Titans folded and won't refund their few season ticket holders.

BTW the Devils did already pay the Flyers, Rags and Islanders hefty sums of $$$ just to move in to NJ.
As mentioned earlier by someone on this thread, since they had to pay the Flyers cash to be here, the Devils should be allowed to have their games televised throughout the entire state.
Harris should look into that.

 

[Mory Schneideur*]

1 game a year in AC against the flyers would be cool. I would love that.

 

[Mory Schneideur*]

Oh and I meant the big club vs the flyers, obviously.

 

[DatBoyJPP]

Oh and I meant the big club vs the flyers, obviously.

OK, I'll bite. What building are they gonna play in?

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

Fact they may only interest me: ECHL is headquarted in Princeton.

Trenton still pulls people for events, for some of the bashing please check out the Thunder attendance. While Trenton is in dire straits and not ideal, I think fans will still come out for AHL. Trenton doesn't have a problem hosting other events, it's getting businesses and people to stay longer than they have to.

I think the whole Jersey's team campaign was abandoned early. While they lost a lot of goodwill changing from Titans to Devils, solely because Trenton also is a satellite market for Bucks County. I live in Mercer County and you see a lot of traffic pull down route one know with the Airport running and better shopping this side of Route 1.

The devils did pay the Flyers and Isles, etc. hence why they are on MSG. However, since MSG carries NY market teams. I guess the problem is, the delivery of the content and someone has dropped the ball at monetizing and or completely leaving money on the table along the way. If the Devils are entitled to broadcast into Philly Media Market, they should of figured it out by now.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

1 game a year in AC against the flyers would be cool. I would love that.

Boardwalk hall?

The Celtics use to play a few games a year in Hartford against softer opponents. Why would you want the Flyers? It would have to be a softer rival.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

For those in Mercer County with kids, can't go wrong with Hobey Baker Arena in Princeton.

 

[Colin226]

Boardwalk hall?

The Celtics use to play a few games a year in Hartford against softer opponents. Why would you want the Flyers? It would have to be a softer rival.

Right, they definitely would not play the Flyers in AC.. But if they played the Islanders or Capitals on a weekend I think any of those would have full buildings.. Playing the Flyers wouldn't be ideal because it takes away higher ticket revenues away from holding that big of a rivalry game in Newark, and because Philly fans would flood the building even if they had to buy off StubHub from Devils STH

Boardwalk Hall currently holds about 10,500 for hockey but that's also if they leave the end of the rink by the stage completely open. For the charity game, they added a couple hundred seats via temporary stands, and those were small. If they brought in bigger stands, they could easily add another 1000+. Done right, they could offer packages in conjunction with Ceasars and buses for fans not looking to stay over.

All a fantasy but they could make it happen if they wanted to.

 

[Devils Dominion]

1 game a year in AC against the flyers would be cool. I would love that.

It's a horrible idea.
Unless you are talking about a preseason game vs a team other than Philly or Rags.

 

[BadFella]

Boardwalk Hall was home to the ECHL Boardwalk Bullies that won a title a decade ago.

So them being home to the A-Devils isn't much of a stretch. Look how oversaturated the upstate NY area is with minor league hockey teams. There's currently no AHL team within a 150 minute drive of Atlantic City.

 

[Devils Dominion]

So them being home to the A-Devils isn't much of a stretch. Look how oversaturated the upstate NY area is with minor league hockey teams. There's currently no AHL team within a 150 minute drive of Atlantic City.

I recall that they couldn't draw and hence folded.
Winter population in that area can't support an ice hockey team.

If they do move from Albany to NJ, Trenton is a better option than AC but they should NOT call the team the Devils.
Trenton Titans or AC Boardwalk Bullies, or some new name.

Call it "Devils" and Flyers & Rags fans won't attend games, that's how they roll.

Harris needs to be smarter than Jeff when it comes to running minor league franchises.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Fact they may only interest me: ECHL is headquarted in Princeton.

Trenton still pulls people for events, for some of the bashing please check out the Thunder attendance. While Trenton is in dire straits and not ideal, I think fans will still come out for AHL. Trenton doesn't have a problem hosting other events, it's getting businesses and people to stay longer than they have to.

I think the whole Jersey's team campaign was abandoned early. While they lost a lot of goodwill changing from Titans to Devils, solely because Trenton also is a satellite market for Bucks County. I live in Mercer County and you see a lot of traffic pull down route one know with the Airport running and better shopping this side of Route 1.

The devils did pay the Flyers and Isles, etc. hence why they are on MSG. However, since MSG carries NY market teams. I guess the problem is, the delivery of the content and someone has dropped the ball at monetizing and or completely leaving money on the table along the way. If the Devils are entitled to broadcast into Philly Media Market, they should of figured it out by now.[/QUOTE]

Thunder has the most popular sports franchise in the country attached, the Yankees.

Harris should explore this, seriously. No reason why the Devils games should not be broadcasted a few hours away from Newark in their home state.
South Jersey fans should be able to watch both Flyers & Devils via local cable systems.

 

[BadFella]

I recall that they couldn't draw and hence folded.
Winter population in that area can't support an ice hockey team.

If they do move from Albany to NJ, Trenton is a better option than AC but they should NOT call the team the Devils.
Trenton Titans or AC Boardwalk Bullies, or some new name.

Call it "Devils" and Flyers & Rags fans won't attend games, that's how they roll.

Harris needs to be smarter than Jeff when it comes to running minor league franchises.

I'd love to see Sun Bank Center get another team, it's not a bad building for hockey at all, nor is Mercer a bad market.

But the evidence doesn't point to Devils brass looking to make another commitment to the area.

The Titans/Devils were around for 15 years and not only did it not work for the Devils, but the franchise itself folded a year ago.

Thunder has the most popularsports franchise in the country attached, the Yankees.

Harris should explore this, seriously. No reason why the Devils games should not be broadcasted a few hours away from Newark in their home state.
South Jersey fans should be able to watch both Flyers & Devils via local cable systems.

I used to go to Thunder games when they were affiliated with the Red Sox, and they were very popular. Most fans in the Trenton area are Phillies fans. Same for the neighboring towns Hamilton, Ewing, and Lawrenceville... and obviously when you cross the bridge into PA.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

Prior to the Yankees they were a Red Sox affiliate as well. Again, the ballpark works the problem is there is no lingering affect of the fans it's in and your out.

Titans were attached to the Flyers loosely and couldn't make it a go after the Berman family sold. It was just one of those things, early days it was a rough crowd akin to Slapshot and the Chiefs.

I truly believe that the following has happened: MSG has exclusive broadcasting rights to the Devils.

Comcast controls all or most content in Southern NJ and owns the broadcasting to Flyers, Sixers and Phillies.

Devils possibly have no way to put content on in SJ without making a deal with Comcast which is a fat NEIN from them and the tower in Center City.

Either way, it's wasted rights.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

I'd love to see Sun Bank Center get another team, it's not a bad building for hockey at all, nor is Mercer a bad market.

But the evidence doesn't point to Devils brass looking to make another commitment to the area.

The Titans/Devils were around for 15 years and not only did it not work for the Devils, but the franchise itself folded a year ago.

Part of the undoing was the drastic changes made in the end, the customer is king.

The Flyers ultimately couldn't make AHL work in their back yard and the demand was there.

It would absolutely work however the team does need an identity loose to the Devils brand. Much like the Thunder, you will get Yankees fans but your bread and butter is families from Bucks and Mercer Counties and Bordentown/Mansfield and northern Burlington county.

You need the content broadcasted, now Bill Clemente does a hockey radio show out of Bucks county and gets great guest they need to regionalize the product. BCC (Burlington county college) had the Trenton Devils radio broadcasts, you need to have a bit more local flair and not give up on it so fast.

Hell, if London can have several EPL teams with divided loyalties be heard, why can't a crowded NY to Philly one have plenty of hockey content as well? Four teams and their affliates in CT down through out the area.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

I used to go to Thunder games when they were affiliated with the Red Sox, and they were very popular. Most fans in the Trenton area are Phillies fans. Same for the neighboring towns Hamilton, Ewing, and Lawrenceville... and obviously when you cross the bridge into PA.

This for the locals and the transisents bring their ny loyalities with them. Same goes for Lakewood, plenty of Yankees fans as well as mets fans go despite the Phillies affliation.

Again, it's catering to a local market and not necessarily putting it in their face that you are the baby Devils.