Speculation: The Atlantic City experiment

[BadFella]

"We" signed a five year lease with Albany in 2010, and since then the AHL's A-Devs have used Boardwalk Hall in AC as their secondary home ice.

They just played the 2nd of 4 scheduled home games in South Jersey the other day, losing, as Devils teams are occasionally known to do, in a shootout.

Do you think we'll renew the lease in Albany next year, or do you think the franchise will make AC the permanent home for the Devs AHL club?

I haven't been to any games in Albany or Atlantic City, (I used to go to Trenton Devils games, as they were close enough) but I did hear that the Devils are drawing slightly more fans in AC than they are in upstate NY.

Mr. Harris obviously had nothing to do with the original agreement, as that was done under Hucksterbeek, but Mr. Harris certainly has a rather odd relationship with Comcast/the Flyers/Philadelphia, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he and the Lamoriellos (remember, Lou's son runs Albany and ran Trenton) are looking to make Jersey's Team South Jersey's Team as well.

If they do move the team to Atlantic City, they really should arrange with someone, whether it's the city, the state, or a private bus company, to get a bus route from Atlantic City to Newark. It's ridiculous that the only ways to Newark from Atlantic City via public transportation include having to take 3 trains, or take a bus to New York and then in Manhattan take PATH or NJT to Newark Penn. The two cities are home to the two largest airports in New Jersey, for crying out loud (well, kind-of... EWR is mostly in Elizabeth, and ACY is mostly in Egg Harbor)

Mr. Harris is already in-bed with Atlantic City, and I don't even mean the PartyPoker partnership. His company, Apollo Global are investors in Caesars.

However, the kicker is... Comcast, who are the Sixers landlords, and the owners of the Flyers, also run Boardwalk Hall.

Click to read more...

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

If you'll indulge an "in-peace" posting from someone who typically can be found in the orbit hinted at by my screen-name...

Leaving aside the issue of whether the Devils' child-franchise would move or play more frequently in Atlantic City ('cause honestly, I have no clue), I'd instead like to focus on transit "down-the-shore."

[If you don't mind me speaking personally], your screen-name suggests a Brooklyn origin- but your post suggests Newark as the jumping-off point for your travels. Do you actually live in Essex County?!

Not quite as many buses roll into Atlantic City anymore... but I should imagine that it's still pretty simple to find a direct bus from North Jersey to Atlantic City- that is... if you don't mind travelling with gamblezombies. An initial web-search suggests Academy Bus runs service oriented to Hudson County departure points-- and Coach USA does likewise from Middlesex County.

 

[BadFella]

Nope. I've never lived in Northern New Jersey. Central Jersey and NYC.

And I'm familiar with Suburban/CoachUSA's bus route in Middlesex, although I don't think they'd be a viable option for South Jerseyans to get to Newark. Not only due to the distance between their stops and the arena, but because the only weekday trips from Middlesex to AC are in the mornings. Maybe Academy's schedule is more accommodating for them. I don't know.

 

[Mory Schneideur*]

I would love to see the Devils play 1 game a year there. A weekend in AC + Devils would be awesome. Plus it could possibly help gain those southern NJ fans.

 

[Mory Schneideur*]

If the Devils did a promotional package, for example bus to AC, one night at casino hotel, game ticket and bus back, that would be sick. Throw in some chips for play and we will probably have a popular game on our hands, especially if it involves the big club.

During the lockout the players played a charity game there and it had a pretty good turn out & atmosphere from what I was told.

 

[BadFella]

If the Devils did a promotional package, for example bus to AC, one night at casino hotel, game ticket and bus back, that would be sick. Throw in some chips for play and we will probably have a popular game on our hands, especially if it involves the big club.

During the lockout the players played a charity game there and it had a pretty good turn out & atmosphere from what I was told.

Yeah, instead they're doing the reverse - get Devils tickets in Newark by playing poker based in AC... they should definitely expand it in the other direction, too.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

They already tried this with trains. The ACES line failed miserably so I don't see why anyone would want to invest in something similar (let alone the state -- talk about wasting more tax dollars).

I love the idea of the AHL in Atlantic City. But there's zero reason to make some direct bus line from Newark to AC. How many busses would have to be filled to make that even worthwhile? If Albany moves to AC, I'd think you'd just have to drive down there if you wanted to see the team play. I really don't see anyone wanting to throw money down the drain on a direct line so soon after the ACES failure.

There are a few private bus lines that do something like this (I know that Coach runs from New Brunswick to AC), but they run on a very limited schedule.

 

[ScottyK]

If the devils leave albany they would be going to adirondak.....or so is the rumor

 

[BadFella]

ACES stopped at Newark Penn, but ultimately it was meant as to be a weekend-only train to/from New York City, though. They already had (and still have) daily direct buses between AC and Manhattan that took the same amount of time and were cheaper. It was a good concept, poorly executed. It didn't help that you had to go the long way, through Philadelphia.

IMO, transfer-free trains from Atlantic City to Trenton and/or Newark would definitely be a step in the right direction, in terms of marketing the Devils to that part of the state.

I just remembered, last year, Josh Harris had the NBA Sixers play their first preseason home game at Boardwalk Hall, ironically being against the former New Jersey Nets.

 

[Mory Schneideur*]

Maybe having a team in AC is the NHL's Guinea pig for having a team in Vegas.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Get the Devils games on local cable tv in Atlantic City first, then you have a chance of getting more fans down there.

If not, it will never be an area with many Devils fans due to the long distance to Newark along with not seeing them on local cable tv.

 

[SeidoN]

about 7 years ago when I was still a fairly casual Devils fan I was on an excavation and the first night at camp I was wearing a Devils jersey. Turns out of of our team leaders actually happened to be from New Jersey. I told her why I was wearing it etc and she said "thats cool I guess, but the Devils are pretty much hated in the part of New Jersey im from"

I never actually questioned her about it and to this day im perplexed by this. anyone care to shed any light for me?

 

[DatBoyJPP]

about 7 years ago when I was still a fairly casual Devils fan I was on an excavation and the first night at camp I was wearing a Devils jersey. Turns out of of our team leaders actually happened to be from New Jersey. I told her why I was wearing it etc and she said "thats cool I guess, but the Devils are pretty much hated in the part of New Jersey im from"

I never actually questioned her about it and to this day im perplexed by this. anyone care to shed any light for me?

The southern part of NJ is closer to Philadelphia than NYC and roots for the Flyers/Eagles/Phillies.

 

[Colin226]

Get the Devils games on local cable tv in Atlantic City first, then you have a chance of getting more fans down there.

If not, it will never be an area with many Devils fans due to the long distance to Newark along with not seeing them on local cable tv.

Bingo. Last May we went down to AC for an LPGA tournament and decided to hit a Chickie's and Pete's for some playoff hockey. Granted, it's a Philly bar chain, so of course there was Flyers stuff everywhere with almost no NY sports stuff, but still it's definitely Flyers territory in large part because that's what's on TV there.

If the new ownership is serious about growing the brand into south jersey, which there's no indication they really care (and really we'd have to analyze if it'd be worth the investment), then they would first need to expand TV coverage to Burlington, Camden, and Atlantic counties. We held a viewing party in Burlington a few years ago and had 60 fans come out, almost all asking if this meant the team was gauging interest in the southern fan base. It can grow, even if the Flyers will always dominate that area, but it starts with TV otherwise it's a waste of time.

 

[Wingman77]

about 7 years ago when I was still a fairly casual Devils fan I was on an excavation and the first night at camp I was wearing a Devils jersey. Turns out of of our team leaders actually happened to be from New Jersey. I told her why I was wearing it etc and she said "thats cool I guess, but the Devils are pretty much hated in the part of New Jersey im from"

I never actually questioned her about it and to this day im perplexed by this. anyone care to shed any light for me?

As others have mentioned - Philly is near the Exit 6 sign on the map and is within an hours distance of most southern jersey locations whereas the Devils are over an hour from many south jersey locations

 

[Japam]

I never actually questioned her about it and to this day im perplexed by this. anyone care to shed any light for me?

When you're in South Jersey, you basically forget you're in NJ and think you're in PA.

 

[Colin226]

I've seen that map before and wow, spot on and kudos to whomever put that together.. I would really like to see a map of TV coverage, and I'm betting it's pretty close to that.. I know when I was going to school in Ewing we got both teams on TV, but now that I'm in Flemington we only get the Devils.. As you can see, Ewing is mixed territory while Flemington is just over the border in red, so being able to watch on TV clearly makes a big difference

Like I said above, I'm not sure what the rules are around it but if the Devils want to grow their NJ following they really need to get MSG down in Burlington county.. Seems far from Newark and it's very close to Philly, yet it's just over an hour to Newark because the Turnpike takes you directly there.. Burlington actually had very good results in that voting by county thing the Devils did a few years ago..

If they go to Burlington, I'd also push hard for Camden county.. I'm sure the Flyers would really flip out over this, but the Cherry Hill area has the strongest following of Devils fans in south jersey.. I've spent a lot of time there and met a bunch of Devils fans (both folks that relocated or young fans who grew up seeing us win while the Flyers did not).. I like to joke that the Lids Locker Room in Cherry Hill sells a larger variety of Devils stuff than anywhere else in the state outside of Devils Den (and it could be true).. Store manager there says they get Devils fans in daily to buy gear

If they want the Atlantic City area to be Devils territory, at least enough to support an AHL team, they need to get on TV there.. It's a drive to go see either team (1 hour to Philly, 2 hours to Newark) so if they get games on TV there and then have a team in the area, I can see it generating some interest in the Devils.. Play 1 NHL game there a year (or even some preseason games) and it would be pretty big for team support in the area IMO

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

I've seen that map before and wow, spot on and kudos to whomever put that together.. I would really like to see a map of TV coverage, and I'm betting it's pretty close to that.. I know when I was going to school in Ewing we got both teams on TV, but now that I'm in Flemington we only get the Devils.. As you can see, Ewing is mixed territory while Flemington is just over the border in red, so being able to watch on TV clearly makes a big difference

Like I said above, I'm not sure what the rules are around it but if the Devils want to grow their NJ following they really need to get MSG down in Burlington county.. Seems far from Newark and it's very close to Philly, yet it's just over an hour to Newark because the Turnpike takes you directly there.. Burlington actually had very good results in that voting by county thing the Devils did a few years ago..

If they go to Burlington, I'd also push hard for Camden county.. I'm sure the Flyers would really flip out over this, but the Cherry Hill area has the strongest following of Devils fans in south jersey.. I've spent a lot of time there and met a bunch of Devils fans (both folks that relocated or young fans who grew up seeing us win while the Flyers did not).. I like to joke that the Lids Locker Room in Cherry Hill sells a larger variety of Devils stuff than anywhere else in the state outside of Devils Den (and it could be true).. Store manager there says they get Devils fans in daily to buy gear

If they want the Atlantic City area to be Devils territory, at least enough to support an AHL team, they need to get on TV there.. It's a drive to go see either team (1 hour to Philly, 2 hours to Newark) so if they get games on TV there and then have a team in the area, I can see it generating some interest in the Devils.. Play 1 NHL game there a year (or even some preseason games) and it would be pretty big for team support in the area IMO

Part of the Devils hats sales in the Cherry Hill Mall is gang affliated as well from Camden.

In Burlington County, you do get MSG but the cut off is Bordentown. You get YES as well as SNY statewide on fios, the problem is games are blacked out because of territory rights of the Flyers. Besides how widely available is FIOS in Comcast country? It's still five years out from being statewide.

I don't know what or whom the Devils paid when they first became a franchise to the Flyers/Rangers/Isles. But it's clear that the Devils are a NYC media market team and not really ever be JERSEY'S Team south of Bordentown and LBI/Barneget area.

Devils should make Trenton their AHL affiliate and AC their ECHL and tried to get some type of media coverage in the region. However, this is all just golden showers in the wind.

But most fans know how to get coverage and around the archaic lame blocks certain leagues do to hinder their game. Way to go guys and grow your sport.

 

[SeidoN]

I never realised the divide was so considerable. thanks guys!

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

As others have mentioned - Philly is near the Exit 6 sign on the map and is within an hours distance of most southern jersey locations whereas the Devils are over an hour from many south jersey locations

Where is the Rangers love on that menu? That Monmouth/Union County belt.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

about 7 years ago when I was still a fairly casual Devils fan I was on an excavation and the first night at camp I was wearing a Devils jersey. Turns out of of our team leaders actually happened to be from New Jersey. I told her why I was wearing it etc and she said "thats cool I guess, but the Devils are pretty much hated in the part of New Jersey im from"

I never actually questioned her about it and to this day im perplexed by this. anyone care to shed any light for me?

Only NJ would be a state without it's own media market and it genuflects and cedes to NY and Philly. Lame

There are enough large cities and population underserved by both markets to make it happen. Only Atlantic City has a franchise/affiliate of NBC and it still competes with NBC from Philly.

Atlantic City is 63 miles from Philadelphia and 118 miles from Newark, but it's really not a part of the Philadelphia market either.

 

[Wingman77]

I never realised the divide was so considerable. thanks guys!

It goes beyond the teams , seriously

http://www.movoto.com/blog/opinions/north-jersey-v-south-jersey/

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

the problem is in South Jersey, most or all the people that live their have roots from Philly and Camden. that's most of every west of 295. The interior is traditionally Pineys and most of the coast is transient families from up north and philly.


South Jersey and the Delaware Valley are the least transisent population bases for a major media market. It's very parochial and a lot of the people that fled Philadelphia bring their allegiances and politics with them wherever they go except it's across the bridge and still managed to bash Jersey after fleeing a decaying city.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Are Snider and the Flyers so worried about the Devils that they would really block games from being broadcasted in South Jersey?

Flyers fans and their families are not going to all of a sudden change fandom because Devils games become available on cable tv.

Did Yankees fans become Mets fans when their games start being shown on tv back in the day? Not the best example but you get my drift.

Make Devils games available in South Jersey, even have fans pay a few bucks extra surcharge at first to gauge an interest.

I personally know many Devils fans who live in South Jersey, out of the MSG+ "area".
Some moved there and some are from there, it's unfair for them not to be able to watch their home state team on MSG+ with the pregame and postgame shows-and Devils coverage. (even if Cangy, Deb and Chico can be painful some night).

Why should the Flyers get a tv monopoly in that market while the Devils, Rags and Isles have to share their tv market?

I know Philly is closer to South Jersey but show both team's games, why not try to grow the game more?

Anyone know the tv cutoff lines for the Flyers & Penguins in PA?

 

[JerseyGuy276]

Honestly, why would South Jersey fans root for the Devils? To go to home games, it's either an easy 2 1/2 hour drive there, not to mention you have that same drive back AFTER the game, even on a weeknight, or a ridiculous bus or train trip with connections galore. Philly is an hour drive/train ride on average from everywhere in south jersey. It's just not smart or economically wise of them to root for the Devils...