News Article: The Athletic's Trade Big Board

[GettingYourMoms]

Zacha would be great 3rd line center, and i think trade would help him.

 

[jkutswings]

I can't respect any opinion that credits Blashill in any way for Athanasiou's successes.
It's just insane to an Orwellian degree.
Black is white. Up is down. Bad is good.

Huh?

Larkin, Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi, Hronek, Fabbri, and Zadina are all younger players that have shown at least some growth while Blashill has been their head coach. Are you suggesting that one or more of those players are actually orders of magnitude better than they've shown thus far, and would transform into the next HOF player under another coach?

Or just AA? Is that particular player the curious case of the roster, where Blashill is his singular kryptonite, and any other halfway competent coach would magically lift the curse by simply giving him another 2-3 minutes of ice time per game?

I'm not a big Blashill fan, but if anybody's take is a tad Orwellian, I think it's yours.

 

[Bench]

Or just AA? Is that particular player the curious case of the roster, where Blashill is his singular kryptonite, and any other halfway competent coach would magically lift the curse by simply giving him another 2-3 minutes of ice time per game?

AA has already has the best season he'll ever have in his career. The history books will show coach Jeffery Blashill getting the best production from him.

 

[Avery Rule]

Detroit makes a trade with Edmonton for their first, they end up missing the playoffs and the first turns into a lotto win a top 3 pick..... would be soooo nice lol

 

[ricky0034]

AA has already has the best season he'll ever have in his career. The history books will show coach Jeffery Blashill getting the best production from him.

if that's ultimately the case it probably has more to do with just how long Blashill has been around than anything else

this is AAs 5th season under Blashill,that's pretty much his entire physical peak

players tend to score more in their early 20s,especially when they rely on their skating as much as AA does,if AA actually did go on to peak higher in his late 20s after finally getting away from him then that would be a pretty huge indictment on Blashill

 

[jkutswings]

if AA actually did go on to peak higher in his late 20s after finally getting away from him then that would be a pretty huge indictment on Blashill

Agreed, with the caveat that if he's dealt to a stacked team, that's going to help his production just based on linemates. But based on what I've seen from the player, if there's a reasonable return to be had in a trade, I'll take that chance.

 

[SCD]

Further, since all of his success is AA driven, it means all of his failures are AA driven.

You must not have adjusted the aluminum foil AA hat correctly.

All of AA's success has resulted because of his superior hockey talent.

All of AA's failures have resulted from not enough quality minutes, not playing with enough quality players, in a broken system, for a awful coach on a terrible organization.

 

[Killerjas]

Detroit makes a trade with Edmonton for their first, they end up missing the playoffs and the first turns into a lotto win a top 3 pick..... would be soooo nice lol

And then you shut off NHL 20...

 

[Pavels Dog]

The only untouchables are Seider and Larkin as far as I’m concerned. Larkin is even arguable. The team sucks with zero elite players. Do whatever you can to improve it for the long term.

But what do you imagine getting for Larkin that would improve us long-term?

Only reason I see to trade these young pieces would be to add an older, established star. And then you only win short-term.

 

[jkutswings]

But what do you imagine getting for Larkin that would improve us long-term?

Only reason I see to trade these young pieces would be to add an older, established star. And then you only win short-term.

Yeah, about the only scenario I could see for that is if suddenly Veleno is ready to be the next 1C, and you find a team willing to deal a top pair defenseman for Larkin...none of which seems imminently likely.

 

[Henkka]

I understand this Athanasiou being a trade bait totally.

It has been going on that direction for a while.

First of all, we have a boatload of Wingers. Fabbri-trade was a steal and Zadina is panning out. These two things are pushing Athanasiou out, because also Bertuzzi and Mantha are more important and complete players, who can even succeed in the 1st line.

So, when you have a surplus, you trade from the surplus. Also, when you are on a rebuild, you probably trade your oldest player of the youngest core. Athanasiou is that too, older than Mantha and Bertuzzi.

Also, the incoming draft could give us another winger, like winning Lafreniere or getting Raymond etc, and that makes even bigger push to let one winger gone from current core, prematurely open a future spot. Fix a need elsewhere.

And, we have had some of personal issues with him too, which is not a positive thing for him, like compared to Mantha or Bertuzzi. They seem be great team players, Mantha maybe too much when he goes on those fights as only guy to help a teammates and injures himself.

And also, when things are not going right for Athanasiou on your current organization, change of scenery could do wonders. Athanasiou is not a Top6 player maybe ever, and does not help a tanking team, when he does not fit on the Top6. But on contenders, he could be a serious threat, creating surprise-scoring from Bottom6 against weak lines and D-pairs, behind better defencemen and with better linemates. Like this kind of one-dimensional player is funny, it's a problem at Top6 and as a system player, but then he could be a threat, because he is so different. He surprises people on his own way.

That's why contenders will be interested in him. Poor season going, but they know his potential. 25 goals, in last 82 games.

He's a 25-goal scorer. These will fetch a 1st at the deadline, just like Tatar, especially because he is RFA, and there's another season under the buying team's control. He's not a rental. And his poor season should drop a little bit the value for next contract. There are risk but also possibilities. Many GMs are optimistic.

Smart team would trade for him, sign some extension now, when his scoring is down and get a bargain.

 

[MBH]

Smart team would trade for him, sign some extension now, when his scoring is down and get a bargain.

Right.
It's almost like Detroit could do that right now.


Athanasiou won't sign a long-term deal right now with Detroit or anyone. He'd be a fool to do that.
For the same reasons Yzerman would be a fool to trade him right now.

The chances of either party getting their best value right now are next to none.

 

[Henkka]

Right.
It's almost like Detroit could do that right now.


Athanasiou won't sign a long-term deal right now with Detroit or anyone. He'd be a fool to do that.
For the same reasons Yzerman would be a fool to trade him right now.

The chances of either party getting their best value right now are next to none.

Struggling players get dealt all the time.

You guys are totally overrating those missing values about a bad season. GM's are lot smarter than this. They know that he had pre-season injury, they know how being on the worst team will affect on your statistics negative way. But they don't care, they know the potential how he can add positives on a better team, thanks to last season.

He just ain't fitting anyhow to our future plans. Then it's time to move on. You transfer his value for another need.

 

[MBH]

Struggling players get dealt all the time.

You guys are totally overrating those missing values about a bad season. GM's are lot smarter than this. They know that he had pre-season injury, they know how being on the worst team will affect on your statistics negative way. But they don't care, they know the potential how he can add positives on a better team, thanks to last season.

He just ain't fitting anyhow to our future plans. Then it's time to move on. You transfer his value for another need.

Struggling players get dealt all the time by desperate GMs.

Sit back and think about it.
You can trade a guy now while his value is low.
Or you can resurrect is value.

Had AA had another 25-30 goal in his background, it would be different.
If AA was on a 20-goal pace, it would be different.

But right now, nobody is paying a premium for Athanasiou.
You've got teams like Montreal that can trade you Tatar or Domi. Buffalo can trade a Reinhart or Olofsson. The Rangers can trade Strome.

Why is anyone going to give you value for a struggling forward when they can go get someone who is playing well or with a better track record?

 

[Hen Kolland]

Struggling players get dealt all the time by desperate GMs.

Sit back and think about it.
You can trade a guy now while his value is low.
Or you can resurrect is value.

Had AA had another 25-30 goal in his background, it would be different.
If AA was on a 20-goal pace, it would be different.

But right now, nobody is paying a premium for Athanasiou.
You've got teams like Montreal that can trade you Tatar or Domi. Buffalo can trade a Reinhart or Olofsson. The Rangers can trade Strome.

Why is anyone going to give you value for a struggling forward when they can go get someone who is playing well or with a better track record?

People would rather be risk adverse. Move him now to hedge the risk that he signs a contract with a little bit of term and a pay raise, never finds his game, and his value becomes negative rather than a slight positive. And the perception that he isn't a good fit, whether you agree doesn't matter; if people are suspicious of all the smoke will lead to a bigger fire, they are going to want to wait and see even less.

We can talk in circles over what is the more reasonable approach, but honestly, Athanasiou has enough doubt around him that a prudent rebuilding GM moves him now to avoid the risk that it gets worse. If a GM was looking at a win-now window, he would probably give Athanasiou a little bit longer of a leash to try to turn it around. That being said, the win-now organization probably also has a coach who buries him on the third line to figure out his game and minimize the amount of damage he causes in doing so. I guess no matter which way you slice it, you probably will never see Athanasiou get treated how you would like to.

In this case, many believe it is better to have missed out on a successful salvage project than it is to get burned by blind trust failure.

 

[MBH]

People would rather be risk adverse. Move him now to hedge the risk that he signs a contract with a little bit of term and a pay raise, never finds his game, and his value becomes negative rather than a slight positive. And the perception that he isn't a good fit, whether you agree doesn't matter; if people are suspicious of all the smoke will lead to a bigger fire, they are going to want to wait and see even less.

We can talk in circles over what is the more reasonable approach, but honestly, Athanasiou has enough doubt around him that a prudent rebuilding GM moves him now to avoid the risk that it gets worse. If a GM was looking at a win-now window, he would probably give Athanasiou a little bit longer of a leash to try to turn it around. That being said, the win-now organization probably also has a coach who buries him on the third line to figure out his game and minimize the amount of damage he causes in doing so. I guess no matter which way you slice it, you probably will never see Athanasiou get treated how you would like to.

In this case, many believe it is better to have missed out on a successful salvage project than it is to get burned by blind trust failure.

Steve Yzerman didn't trade Jonathan Drouin when he was pitching a bitch fest about playing in the AHL - at his LOWEST value.
He waited for Drouin to have a monster playoffs and follow it up with a 21G, 53-point season.
And then he found a team (Montreal) that would pay the highest possible price for Drouin.

I don't see Yzerman throwing AA away for a second round pick or any of the other really bad ideas I see tossed around this board. He's smarter than that.

All the crying people do about Athanasiou's defense is a lark.
If you give AA 19 minutes a night and he scores 35 goals weak defense, who cares?
Phil Kessel topped 30 goals once in Pittsburgh and played shit defense. Didn't stop the Penguins from winning two cups.

Yes, it would be great if AA worked like Hossa on defense. But not everyone is built that way.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Steve Yzerman didn't trade Jonathan Drouin when he was pitching a ***** fest about playing in the AHL - at his LOWEST value.
He waited for Drouin to have a monster playoffs and follow it up with a 21G, 53-point season.
And then he found a team (Montreal) that would pay the highest possible price for Drouin.

I don't see Yzerman throwing AA away for a second round pick or any of the other really bad ideas I see tossed around this board. He's smarter than that.

All the crying people do about Athanasiou's defense is a lark.
If you give AA 19 minutes a night and he scores 35 goals weak defense, who cares?
Phil Kessel topped 30 goals once in Pittsburgh and played **** defense. Didn't stop the Penguins from winning two cups.

Yes, it would be great if AA worked like Hossa on defense. But not everyone is built that way.

You think that AA is appearing on trade bait lists at random? You think Craig Custance doesn't have sources and hasn't heard murmurs around the league? You think that the hockey world in general continually brings up Athanasiou as a candidate while being completely unplugged?

Comparing Andreas Athanasiou to Phil Kessel...honestly not worth the time of day to touch on how ridiculous this is.

 

[Frk It]

Steve Yzerman didn't trade Jonathan Drouin when he was pitching a ***** fest about playing in the AHL - at his LOWEST value.
He waited for Drouin to have a monster playoffs and follow it up with a 21G, 53-point season.
And then he found a team (Montreal) that would pay the highest possible price for Drouin.

I don't see Yzerman throwing AA away for a second round pick or any of the other really bad ideas I see tossed around this board. He's smarter than that.

All the crying people do about Athanasiou's defense is a lark.
If you give AA 19 minutes a night and he scores 35 goals weak defense, who cares?
Phil Kessel topped 30 goals once in Pittsburgh and played **** defense. Didn't stop the Penguins from winning two cups.

Yes, it would be great if AA worked like Hossa on defense. But not everyone is built that way.

I agree you don't want to trade him now. The problem is people on here rarely ever are behind "selling high" on a player. People generally only want to get rid of people on here when they stink... but somehow still get something great back.

Anyways... last year I could see an argument for giving him more minutes.

But this year, it would really not be based on merit. Dude is -35 with a CF% of 44.55. His play has not deserved a bigger role at all. If anything, he should have even less of a role.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Steve Yzerman didn't trade Jonathan Drouin when he was pitching a ***** fest about playing in the AHL - at his LOWEST value.
He waited for Drouin to have a monster playoffs and follow it up with a 21G, 53-point season.
And then he found a team (Montreal) that would pay the highest possible price for Drouin.

I don't see Yzerman throwing AA away for a second round pick or any of the other really bad ideas I see tossed around this board. He's smarter than that.

All the crying people do about Athanasiou's defense is a lark.
If you give AA 19 minutes a night and he scores 35 goals weak defense, who cares?
Phil Kessel topped 30 goals once in Pittsburgh and played **** defense. Didn't stop the Penguins from winning two cups.

Yes, it would be great if AA worked like Hossa on defense. But not everyone is built that way.

Phil Kessel had point totals of 59, 70, 92, and 82 in 4 seasons. With about 18 minutes a night. AA's high water mark? 54 points in ~16:50 a night. Basically, Kessel in any given year played about 200 more minutes than AA's most. But yeah, it's totally an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[MBH]

I agree you don't want to trade him now. The problem is people on here rarely ever are behind "selling high" on a player. People generally only want to get rid of people on here when they stink... but somehow still get something great back.

Anyways... last year I could see an argument for giving him more minutes.

But this year, it would really not be based on merit. Dude is -35 with a CF% of 44.55. His play has not deserved a bigger role at all. If anything, he should have even less of a role.

Right.
It's what makes fans so ridiculous.
Player struggles... "TRADE THE GUY FOR A FIRST PAIRING DEFENSEMEN."

You can't reduce his role and increase the level of play.
That's why he's sulking to begin with.
He finished last year awesomely, playing big minutes.

And then this season started and he got relegated to 13-14 minutes in game 2.

I'd spend the rest of the season like so:

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Zadina
Fabbri-AA-Mantha

Last year, AA played 19 minutes at center and went 8-7-15 +1 and about 48 percent on Faceoffs in his final 16 games.
By the time he comes back, he's going to have about 32 games left.

If he can replicate that and go 16-14-30 and finish the season at 21-28-54 while winning close to 50 percent of his faceoffs - now we have a trade asset.
Or a serviceable 2C until Veleno develops.

My guess is that, considering he did that with Hirose/Glendening/Helm last year, it wouldn't be too hard to do it with Fabbri/Mantha.

Go ahead and talk to me more about AA has to earn it... while Nielsen/Filppula continue along their merry way.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

I say we trade Athanasiou for lafreniere. AA would dominate the Q and we bypass the draft lottery. Win . Win .

 

[Hen Kolland]

Right.
It's what makes fans so ridiculous.
Player struggles... "TRADE THE GUY FOR A FIRST PAIRING DEFENSEMEN."

You can't reduce his role and increase the level of play.
That's why he's sulking to begin with.
He finished last year awesomely, playing big minutes.

And then this season started and he got relegated to 13-14 minutes in game 2.

I'd spend the rest of the season like so:

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Zadina
Fabbri-AA-Mantha

Last year, AA played 19 minutes at center and went 8-7-15 +1 and about 48 percent on Faceoffs in his final 16 games.
By the time he comes back, he's going to have about 32 games left.

If he can replicate that and go 16-14-30 and finish the season at 21-28-54 while winning close to 50 percent of his faceoffs - now we have a trade asset.
Or a serviceable 2C until Veleno develops.

My guess is that, considering he did that with Hirose/Glendening/Helm last year, it wouldn't be too hard to do it with Fabbri/Mantha.

Go ahead and talk to me more about AA has to earn it... while Nielsen/Filppula continue along their merry way.

If he can't be trusted to do the right things and have a positive impact in 12-14 minutes, then why would he be gifted premium time in an important role? You know why Filppula has taken the second line center role and never given it up? Because he doesn't routinely f*** up and ignore his responsibility on the ice. You think Blashill is happy that Filppula is his best option for the 2C role? He's put on the ice and there isn't a doubt whether he's going to try in every phase of the game.

You're a hell of a contortionist to find ways to admit to his poor play and still excuse it and find a way to give him even more time, responsibility, and importance. All for what? Your never ending quest to hopefully be proven right about a middle six hockey player with a shitty attitude? Who needs doors held open and his hand held and carried to success? You think Athanasiou is driving Mantha and Fabbri to the next level? Nah man, he'd be the biggest passenger on the roster.

 

[ShelbyZ]

It's hard to find recent close comparables for a potential AA trade that covers all of the relevant factors

The closest would probably be Rieder and Wedgewood for Kuemper before the deadline 2 years ago...

Rieder's situation was comparable to AA's in the following ways:

-Arizona was the worst if not one of the worst teams in the league that year (Coyotes didn't win 11 games until 1/20 that year, and had 17 wins at the time of the trade)
-Having a disappointing season
-25 years old, and would still be 25 on 7/1/18
-Set to become an RFA at the end of the year
-2 years from UFA eligibility
-BONUS: Darren Ferris client who held out prior to eligibility for arbitration

Obviously Rieder and AA are probably at different levels play and resume wise, but that really is the closest scenario...

Otherwise, you have the Blackhawks getting 2 2016 2nd rounders (#39 and #45) for Andrew Shaw at the 2016 draft. Shaw was a 25YO RFA 2 years away from UFA eligibility like AA will be this summer.

Hard to compare with the Johansson (to NJ), Coyle, Rask/Niedereiter, Tatar, Pearson, etc. trades because while similar in age those guys were all on contracts that took them to UFA status.

I think one thing a smart GM like Yzerman is keenly aware of though, is that AA's value could be a lot less a year from now if he's kept around and continues to disappoint.

 

[MBH]

If he can't be trusted to do the right things and have a positive impact in 12-14 minutes, then why would he be gifted premium time in an important role? You know why Filppula has taken the second line center role and never given it up? Because he doesn't routinely **** up and ignore his responsibility on the ice. You think Blashill is happy that Filppula is his best option for the 2C role? He's put on the ice and there isn't a doubt whether he's going to try in every phase of the game.

You're a hell of a contortionist to find ways to admit to his poor play and still excuse it and find a way to give him even more time, responsibility, and importance. All for what? Your never ending quest to hopefully be proven right about a middle six hockey player with a ****ty attitude? Who needs doors held open and his hand held and carried to success? You think Athanasiou is driving Mantha and Fabbri to the next level? Nah man, he'd be the biggest passenger on the roster.

There's nothing contortionist about it.
AA as a passenger is a bloody joke. The guy put up 30 goals and 54 points playing with scrubs.

A line of Fabbri-AA-Mantha could do great things... both short term and long term (for AA's trade value).

Keep on lobbying for the garbage thinking of Blashill that's made the Red Wings the worst team of the cap era.

 

[jkutswings]

I think AA has become the Brandon Inge of the Red Wings. More talented, to be sure, but the parallel is that the fans form two opposite camps, and the two camps will forever disagree about the true value/potential of the player, with no real discourse taking place.

I could have a guarantee that AA will score 30 goals each of the next 3 seasons, and I'd still listen to trade offers, because I just don't like the player, and I think his style of scoring those 30 regular season goals would translate into only 1-2 goals during a playoff run when it really matters. But apparently this will eventually end in "agree to disagree" territory anyway, so I don't know that it matters.