TheOtherOne
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2010
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Sure, I'll change your mind. It might take me a couple years though. Check back with me in 2022 or so.
News Article: The Athletic's Trade Big Board
- Thread starter Ricelund
- Start date
RedMenace
Registered User
Definitely was, and still am. Don't really know why. I tend to cheer for the underdog, and his size and usage under Babcock certainly made him that.
Outstanding playmaker and hockey IQ. Damn, I miss that guy. I hope the hookers and blow are plentiful wherever you are, Happy.
About that specifically, or can we choose the topic?
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
@RedMenace
Re: Hudler, check out the posts I made #646, 647, 648 & 649 in the Lookalikes V thread.
Lookalikes V (Mod Warning in OP)
Here is a few...
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Oddbob
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2016
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Nope, I can't. That would take someone taking over my thoughts, which is in all fairness probably more realistic than AA scoring 30 goals again.
I also love the thing being thrown around, how if we trade AA we lose out on one of our offensive guys when we already struggle to score. Well, we already know what it looks like to not see AA scoring for us, it is called 2019-2020 Detroit Red Wings, and I thinks we be fine with moving on at this point.
Definitely no on Gardiner but I'd consider it on the other defenders. But AA is not worth a top 4d unless he plays center and is a consistent 25+ goal scorers.
ricky0034
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- Jun 8, 2010
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he's still ahead of everyone on the team in points outside of Bertuzzi/Larkin/Mantha/Hronek/Fabbri even though he's missed 8 games
Personally I'm ambivalent re trading AA as I think his physical gifts, so crucial to his success, will be declining by the time we are contending again unless we get a couple of years of lottery luck in a row.
BUT - the endless diminishing of his ability on here is ludicrous. Is he defensively bad? Yes. But to suddenly write him off as a goal threat because of one bad half season is a joke.
The guy is miles behind his usual (let a lone peak) shooting %. He's playing on a terrible team that creates NOTHING unless its the top line, occasionally the PP or the odd blown coverage by the opposition. He's barely played with a competent passer all year, and half of that time was coming back from injury.
We all know his flaws, but certain things remain true
1) He still skates like the wind
2) He has a good shot and an underrated one-timer
3) His stickhandling at speed isn't elite but he can still undress guys pretty easily.
Its clear he's getting less good chances, he's gripping the stick a bit and trying to do too much on his own (!), but to say he'll never score 30 again is a joke if he stays fit.
Put him on the 3rd line with some elevations to the 2nd line on a real contender with those easier match-ups and he'd soon be back on the goal trail. They guy needs a playmaker and d-men that can play breakout passes to be effective. For all his defensive awfulness, its not his fault detroit has a serious lack of those.
So, no, don't trade him for a 2nd. If you want trade him, hold out for at least a 1st or more likely a young goalie or left sided D with the potential to be better at their position than he is at his.
BUT - the endless diminishing of his ability on here is ludicrous. Is he defensively bad? Yes. But to suddenly write him off as a goal threat because of one bad half season is a joke.
The guy is miles behind his usual (let a lone peak) shooting %. He's playing on a terrible team that creates NOTHING unless its the top line, occasionally the PP or the odd blown coverage by the opposition. He's barely played with a competent passer all year, and half of that time was coming back from injury.
We all know his flaws, but certain things remain true
1) He still skates like the wind
2) He has a good shot and an underrated one-timer
3) His stickhandling at speed isn't elite but he can still undress guys pretty easily.
Its clear he's getting less good chances, he's gripping the stick a bit and trying to do too much on his own (!), but to say he'll never score 30 again is a joke if he stays fit.
Put him on the 3rd line with some elevations to the 2nd line on a real contender with those easier match-ups and he'd soon be back on the goal trail. They guy needs a playmaker and d-men that can play breakout passes to be effective. For all his defensive awfulness, its not his fault detroit has a serious lack of those.
So, no, don't trade him for a 2nd. If you want trade him, hold out for at least a 1st or more likely a young goalie or left sided D with the potential to be better at their position than he is at his.
Henkka
Registered User
This can also be read as “he’s trails all the good players on the team in points.” And he trails Zadina in points per game since their sample sizes are different.
TCNorthstars
Registered User
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Only about 30-40 guys a seasons hit 30 goals. It's not exactly easy in that regard.
And when you browse over that list of guys I think you'll see a guy like AA looks more like an outlier than a routine occurrence. Malkin, Ovechkin, and Kane barely crack 30 some seasons. It's not a routine number to hit unless you're a generational talent.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,243
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He has yet to play 82 games in a season, so that helps your cause
I'd say he could go to a good team and light it up... but he's not a traditional scorer that would do more damage paired with an elite playmaker. He scores a lot of his goals off of solo efforts and off the rush. So I really don't know if he will be able to duplicate that 30 goal mark. But I do think he can play MUCH better than what he has so far this year.
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
TIFWIT...probably clickbait, but certainly a possible AA trade scenario.
"You can bet Holland is eying Athanasiou in Det too. Loves his speed. His hands don't quite match his top 5 wheels but he's restricted free-agent, and Wings' Steve Yzerman didn't draft him.
— Jim Matheson (@NHLbyMatty) January 8, 2020"
Oilers’ Holland looks to make a deal with the Wings
"You can bet Holland is eying Athanasiou in Det too. Loves his speed. His hands don't quite match his top 5 wheels but he's restricted free-agent, and Wings' Steve Yzerman didn't draft him.
— Jim Matheson (@NHLbyMatty) January 8, 2020"
Oilers’ Holland looks to make a deal with the Wings
AA to EDM makes sense to me. Really I'd just like to see any kind of deal between Yzerman and Holland, for the story.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,243
- 14,753
"Matheson noting the Oilers second-round pick, and a defensive prospect could be available is interesting."
2nd + Samorukov?
Not sure that would be enough for me. Especially if they make the playoffs and that is a late 2nd rounder.
izlez
We need more toe-drags/60
- Feb 28, 2012
- 4,627
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"His hands don't quite match his speed"
Sounds like he's very well informed on the topic.
Ricelund
̶W̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶
Matheson is pretty legit... but I was under the impression that Holland isn’t a big AA fan either.
TheOtherOne
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2010
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Which makes it all the more ridiculous that a 25-year-old who just did it half a season ago gets written off so easily.
Fun fact: If you could magically double his shooting percentage this season without changing anything else (which would still be just below his career average), he would be on pace for 23 goals. Doesn't seem too bad for such a horrendous slump.
If you want to get specific, it would actually put him on a 20.6 goal pace in 74 games, IF he returned tonight, which we know he likely can't due to the injury unfortunately. But it furthers the evidence that he is probably closer to the player we saw in his 2016-2018 stretch than he is a consistent 30 goal scorer. A better player for sure, even a more complete player, but the 30 goal thing just seems unlikely.
Fun fact: if you double his shooting percentage and bump him up to nearly his career average, you can't still call that slump. You would have regulated his performance and removed the slump from the discussion.
Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
- Jul 6, 2012
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If he scored literally twice as often, he'd still be 7 goals short of 30 is what you're telling me. He's not shooting at this higher double percentage. He's shooting what he's shooting and he's got the goals he's got. He's having a very bad year. Let it go.
And what is more ridiculous is treating a 25 year old who got 30 goals once as some kind of proven 30 goal scorer. AA is a great talent. He's a very good hockey player when he's on. But he brings his own share of headaches along with that.
He gets written off because everything about a rush based offensive player is built on a house of sand. He needs a good outlet pass, he needs coverage for the times he goes down on his break and doesn't score and a rush the other way happens. AA's game is not a consistent one and while you can say "aw, he's just getting unlucky", his entire game is predicated on something where you are kinda at the mercy of luck.
TheOtherOne
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Mhm, his house of sand looks real shaky with only 284 career games in which he scored a total of 2 fewer goals (14 more ES goals) than Mantha with an average of 2 minutes less ice time.
You guys want to call him a 23-goal-scorer, fine. I think that's still pretty damn good with his supporting cast.
So now it’s a good argument to compare Athanasiou’s 284 games to Mantha’s 246? When AA has more total minutes and has still scored fewer goals?
I don’t think that’s the argument you want to make to support AA.
