The Athletic - 2018/19 NHL Farm system rankings

[Mrb1p]

Do you think he watches them more than everyone else just because he is Corey Pronman???

I ask this honestly, because some of us have the streaming rights to junior, AHL and watch a lot of games. I know that isn't a huge crew, but there are a few of us that follow our teams, affiliates and prospects quite a bit closer than Pronman. I really don't understand Cholowski or Rasmussen being in the tiers they are in. But again I bought the WHL steaming and watched both guys play a ton last year just to watch them play and focus on them. That isn't realistic for Pronman and I understand that. He is a prisoner to the viewings he gets to see and it shows at times.

I don't think he was overly harsh on Svechnikov. But that doesn't mean I don't find some of his rankings over the years odd as well. It's his opinion just like several of us have opinions around here. Now biases can certainly creep in. But when he makes comments in the section like Rasmussen hasn't dominated the WHL when he was a scoring riot when he got back from injury is missing some of the picture. He also overlooked some public knowledge in the Wings rundown. Things that if he asked people like Custance about he could avoid some confusion. To even attempt selling Rasmussen as WHL bound is fairly silly given the organizational stance. Also, quite a few people in the threads around HF would straight trash him for commenting that Rasmussen wasn't one of Canada's best forwards at the Summer Series showcase because he was. Pronman has some biases as well over the years when you read his stuff. I enjoy his work but it isn't exactly gospel to me either.

I think hes paid to do so.

Ive had free reigns of a business for a while now and it allowed me to "work" while looking at hockey games (I know, sounds fun, right?) And the numbers of actual sheer games I watched over the years while working mininal hours over the winter was awesome and it gave me an idea of most prospects, especially 2018 draft ones. Wouldnt imagine the number of games Corey actually gets to watch, this actually being his job.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think hes paid to do so.

Ive had free reigns of a business for a while now and it allowed me to "work" while looking at hockey games (I know, sounds fun, right?) And the numbers of actual sheer games I watched over the years while working mininal hours over the winter was awesome and it gave me an idea of most prospects, especially 2018 draft ones. Wouldnt imagine the number of games Corey actually gets to watch, this actually being his job.

A lot of scouts actually don't believe in seeing a prospect more than a few times with a focus. For instance both Holland and Hakan Andersson talk about this at length. I am fortunate to have several friends in the business, watching a game with a true pro and amateur scout isn't quite what most of this place thinks it is to be honest. It is a difficult craft and I appreciate guys like Pronman that put their process and lists out there. It doesn't mean I don't disagree with him or Button from time to time.

Now you will naturally see some more than others. I am just pointing out most scouts I have been around have a focus when they show up to the rink on what they are there to watch. Maybe Corey has wider view than most I have encountered personally, but I am just saying even with all the hours he pours into it chances are if you wanted to you could focus on a narrower group because he is forced to evaluate so much.

 

[RedWingzz]

Do you think he watches them more than everyone else just because he is Corey Pronman???

I ask this honestly, because some of us have the streaming rights to junior, AHL and watch a lot of games. I know that isn't a huge crew, but there are a few of us that follow our teams, affiliates and prospects quite a bit closer than Pronman. I really don't understand Cholowski or Rasmussen being in the tiers they are in. But again I bought the WHL steaming and watched both guys play a ton last year just to watch them play and focus on them. That isn't realistic for Pronman and I understand that. He is a prisoner to the viewings he gets to see and it shows at times.

I don't think he was overly harsh on Svechnikov. But that doesn't mean I don't find some of his rankings over the years odd as well. It's his opinion just like several of us have opinions around here. Now biases can certainly creep in. But when he makes comments in the section like Rasmussen hasn't dominated the WHL when he was a scoring riot when he got back from injury is missing some of the picture. He also overlooked some public knowledge in the Wings rundown. Things that if he asked people like Custance about he could avoid some confusion. To even attempt selling Rasmussen as WHL bound is fairly silly given the organizational stance. Also, quite a few people in the threads around HF would straight trash him for commenting that Rasmussen wasn't one of Canada's best forwards at the Summer Series showcase because he was. Pronman has some biases as well over the years when you read his stuff. I enjoy his work but it isn't exactly gospel to me either.

I agree, his assessment of Svech is fair. It's a huge year for Svech. He needs to score at a high pace in the A and earn a call-up, and prove he can be an NHL player (which I believe he can). Pronman's assessment on Cholo is a bit off in my opinion. Cholo is getting slept on by everybody though. I don't think he's gonna be a star, but I think at worst he is a 2nd pairing guy. He's a safer player than Hronek in my opinion, but Hronek has a much higher ceiling.

Overall I find the athletic is "slightly" harsh on the Wings in terms of prospects, not really sure why. They had another writer publish an article recently on the top prospects in the NHL which was laughable and this writer has lost all credibility in my books. You can tell Pronman knows his stuff though. As for Ras, people have loved to hate on him ever since we picked him at 9 (Wings fans included). Ras is trending in the right direction. Again, maybe he doesn't have star potential, but I'd bet a lot of money that he's still a reliable NHL player 10 years from now.

 

[Mrb1p]

I agree, his assessment of Svech is fair. It's a huge year for Svech. He needs to score at a high pace in the A and earn a call-up, and prove he can be an NHL player (which I believe he can). Pronman's assessment on Cholo is a bit off in my opinion. Cholo is getting slept on by everybody though. I don't think he's gonna be a star, but I think at worst he is a 2nd pairing guy. He's a safer player than Hronek in my opinion, but Hronek has a much higher ceiling.

Overall I find the athletic is "slightly" harsh on the Wings in terms of prospects, not really sure why. They had another writer publish an article recently on the top prospects in the NHL which was laughable and this writer has lost all credibility in my books. You can tell Pronman knows his stuff though. As for Ras, people have loved to hate on him ever since we picked him at 9 (Wings fans included). Ras is trending in the right direction. Again, maybe he doesn't have star potential, but I'd bet a lot of money that he's still a reliable NHL player 10 years from now.

Pronman likes high upside players. Game breakers, aside from Zadina and Berggren you guys dont have that.

 

[MasterMatt25]

I think hes paid to do so.

Ive had free reigns of a business for a while now and it allowed me to "work" while looking at hockey games (I know, sounds fun, right?) And the numbers of actual sheer games I watched over the years while working mininal hours over the winter was awesome and it gave me an idea of most prospects, especially 2018 draft ones. Wouldnt imagine the number of games Corey actually gets to watch, this actually being his job.

How do you get a job like that?

 

[Mrb1p]

How do you get a job like that?

Own something, not as fun as it sounds though.

 

[RedWingzz]

Pronman likes high upside players. Game breakers, aside from Zadina and Berggren you guys dont have that.

I think you are confusing "game breaker" with "high-end skill". Yakupov has all the skill in the world. It's not really working for him.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Really got to think Montreal is tomorrow. We only have 1 game breaker. All the other teams seemingly have 2 or more

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Really got to think Montreal is tomorrow. We only have 1 game breaker. All the other teams seemingly have 2 or more

blues dont have one

 

[newfy]

Literally the same thing I just accused you of, without even realizing.

Juulsen has a great shot, hes a good skater, especially his lateral mobility, hes much more than a "new age shutdown D".

Yeah Ive never said anything about his skating being poor. Thats part of a new age shutdown D man. Cool, he has lateral mobility, never said he doesnt. How may points does lateral mobility account for in a year? He has a heavy shot, Johnathan Ericcson used to hit over 100 mph with his shot.

I dont tihnk hes a bad prospect but your enot going to convince me he has some kind of offensive upside with talking about when he hasnt produced at a high rate at any level in his entire career. His best offensive year was his draft year and since then his offense has been very low for a first round drafted dman with supposed offensive upside. He hit double digit goals once in his entire junior career.

Hes a new age shut down guy, he can skate and move the puck well enough to play in the NHL but I'm not sure what your defintion of offensive upside is if you think he has much of it at all

 

[MasterMatt25]

blues dont have one

Thomas and Kyrou?

 

[newfy]

Howso? They have a top heavy pool

I think theyre a very good pool, but I'm not nearly as high on Robert Thomas as others are. I like Kyrou (I watch a decent amount of the sting actually, former season ticket holder). Robert Thomas had what I thought was a solid but unspectacular WJC and a meh finish to the year (I know he was playoff MVP but it wasnt a spectacular one imo). I dont think hes a Zadina, Kotkaniemi, or even Cody Glass level prospect. Hes closer to guys like Rasmussen and Poehling who are other guys 2nd prospects.

They shouldnt be much lower but I just think theyre a little high.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Thomas and Kyrou?

They aren't game breakers, they are good prospects like Poehling

 

[TeddyBare]

They aren't game breakers, they are good prospects like Poehling

Well red is confirmed, so the other 6 elite prospects are probably
Pettersson
Necas
Mittelstadt
Svechnikov
Kotkaniemi
Borgstrom
Zadina

The last nigh end prospect is probably one of Hughes, Thomas or Kyrou

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Well red is confirmed, so the other 6 elite prospects are probably
Pettersson
Necas
Mittelstadt
Svechnikov
Kotkaniemi
Borgstrom
Zadina

The last nigh end prospect is probably one of Hughes, Thomas or Kyrou

Its Hughes, there's no doubt about it

 

[TeddyBare]

Its Hughes, there's no doubt about it

I'd say it's a toss up between thomas and hughes.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think you are confusing "game breaker" with "high-end skill". Yakupov has all the skill in the world. It's not really working for him.

Yakupov had game breaking skills, he was poorly developped. Anyhow, Im not confusing anything, you need game breaking skill to be able to "game break".

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah Ive never said anything about his skating being poor. Thats part of a new age shutdown D man. Cool, he has lateral mobility, never said he doesnt. How may points does lateral mobility account for in a year? He has a heavy shot, Johnathan Ericcson used to hit over 100 mph with his shot.

I dont tihnk hes a bad prospect but your enot going to convince me he has some kind of offensive upside with talking about when he hasnt produced at a high rate at any level in his entire career. His best offensive year was his draft year and since then his offense has been very low for a first round drafted dman with supposed offensive upside. He hit double digit goals once in his entire junior career.

Hes a new age shut down guy, he can skate and move the puck well enough to play in the NHL but I'm not sure what your defintion of offensive upside is if you think he has much of it at all

And you failed to realize any of the context Juulsen has been in, look at the team he was on, look at his defensive usage and youll understand.

Again, not gonna say hes going to produce big numbers, hes not, but hes surely going to produce.

 

[newfy]

And you failed to realize any of the context Juulsen has been in, look at the team he was on, look at his defensive usage and youll understand.

Again, not gonna say hes going to produce big numbers, hes not, but hes surely going to produce.

Whats your definition of produce? When I say offensive upside, I mean he becomes a guy that wouldnt be out of place in an offensive situation. He doesnt have to be Karlsson, but lets say the goalie is pulled and youre behind in a game, this player might go out there while the top offensive guy gets a breather and you wouldnt be too upset about it. I dont see Juulsen as a guy whose ever on the ice when the Habs have an extra attacker, unless theyre trying hard to get lafreniere

Heres what I understand. Youre talking about a first round pick playing in junior. 90% of first round drafted dmen play 25-30 mins a game down there, do you really think when they play that much that their defensive usage is much different? Come into the NHL and I'm sure a guy like him will be used more defensively while a guy like Hronek will be used more offensively. But the quality of minutes and difficulty of the minutes that these top guys from junior play arent super different from each other. The difference is that guys who can actually produce do it.

A guy like Juulsen showed hardly any production over the course of his time in junior, his time in the AHL, or his short NHL stint last year. At some point you have to produce or else lateral skating and a hard shot are just lateral skating and a hard shot

 

[ottawa]

Montreal's prospects suck

This post sure is aging well

 

[Dbrownss]

I think theyre a very good pool, but I'm not nearly as high on Robert Thomas as others are. I like Kyrou (I watch a decent amount of the sting actually, former season ticket holder). Robert Thomas had what I thought was a solid but unspectacular WJC and a meh finish to the year (I know he was playoff MVP but it wasnt a spectacular one imo). I dont think hes a Zadina, Kotkaniemi, or even Cody Glass level prospect. Hes closer to guys like Rasmussen and Poehling who are other guys 2nd prospects.

They shouldnt be much lower but I just think theyre a little high.

Thomas was an 18yr old at the WJC in a 19/20yr old tourney. His finish to the year was hampered by a high ankle sprain. He is above Poehling and Rassmussen, and Glass

 

[Dbrownss]

They aren't game breakers, they are good prospects like Poehling

 

[ottawa]

People are going to be on suicide watch if the habs crack the top 5 lol

 

[93LEAFS]

People are going to be on suicide watch if the habs crack the top 5 lol

I don't think people will really care that much. I mean, you knew Ylonen was held in very high regard by him, and he likes Kotkaniemi more than most. Then you picked the smaller guys who he likes more than most in Fonstad and Hillis. Its more than someone has made this thread about Habs related things for like 15 pages or so.

 

[Mrb1p]

Whats your definition of produce? When I say offensive upside, I mean he becomes a guy that wouldnt be out of place in an offensive situation. He doesnt have to be Karlsson, but lets say the goalie is pulled and youre behind in a game, this player might go out there while the top offensive guy gets a breather and you wouldnt be too upset about it. I dont see Juulsen as a guy whose ever on the ice when the Habs have an extra attacker, unless theyre trying hard to get lafreniere

Heres what I understand. Youre talking about a first round pick playing in junior. 90% of first round drafted dmen play 25-30 mins a game down there, do you really think when they play that much that their defensive usage is much different? Come into the NHL and I'm sure a guy like him will be used more defensively while a guy like Hronek will be used more offensively. But the quality of minutes and difficulty of the minutes that these top guys from junior play arent super different from each other. The difference is that guys who can actually produce do it.

A guy like Juulsen showed hardly any production over the course of his time in junior, his time in the AHL, or his short NHL stint last year. At some point you have to produce or else lateral skating and a hard shot are just lateral skating and a hard shot

Exactly.

I expect him to be the 2nd or 3rd offensive guy on the back end, depending on his developpement.

Saying Juulsen never produce is being obstute for the sake of it. His D year PPG was good, and he was on a good team too. The year after, they lost Scherback, Nikolishin and Bauml without adding anything, Juulsen was also heavily used defensively on a team that didnt even have anyone crack 60 points in the Whl. This team was the equivalent of the Sabres of two years ago, literally.

In his third year, he had a similar PPG to his first year, with a slightly better goal production, on a team that had more offensive punch. Bajkov started producing with Sutter and Zweger helping the production. His role on the WJC team was the same as Mete last year, heavy, heavy defensive minutes going against the toughest matchups, PK and no PP time.

Fast forward one year into the AHL and you can get what happened here... lots of injuries, terrible team, Sylvain Lefebvre being himself, not using Juulsen on the PP. He was the best D on that squad after his injury and the best D offensively. I agree, you need to see production, but, similarly to Svechnikov, just stats watching doesnt paint the whole picture, not even close to it.

He also showed some really nice things in MTL.