The Athletic - 2018/19 NHL Farm system rankings

[Go Wings]

I mean, they just had the most picks of the last two years out of every team.

3
25
26
35
38
56
56
58
66
68
70
71
87
87
97
123
128
133
149
199
199
207
207

Find me a team with better value than that in the last two years

Detroit. Anymore brain busters?

 

[TeddyBare]

I expect to see islanders in the top five considering our first four picks in 2018 were in Pronman's top 20

They don't have a better prospect pool than
Buffalo
Carolina
Vancouver
Islanders

The only other one would be St Louis.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

I think people are being a little harsh on Montreal here. Pronman seems like he put a heavy emphasis on this years draft which in many people’s opinion they did very well. I don’t think I would have put them over Detroit, but they have a deep pool and a few guys that look to be solid top six/top four options in a few years.

 

[JohnLennon]

Wings at 7. Very excellent rise in one short year for this team. What likely prevented them from being higher in the rankings is the lack of legit prospects. They've only got 5 players above "have a chance". Vegas had 8, Florida had 6, LAK had 7 (all teams ranked directly behind them). Both Borgstrom and Zadina were listed as elite, and Detroit has less legit+ prospects, which must tell you how high on Zadina and the rest of the Wings' top end Pronman really is. This is good news for Wings fans if that potential is reached.

I'm really hoping Hronek makes the team this year, as Pronman expects. That team needs a boost to their powerplay, and he, plus Zadina of course, would make a nice difference. He's a pretty underrated prospect among the boards, and fans who don't follow the Wings.

Disappointing to see how Svechnikov has been developing, and that's reflected by seeing him relegated to "have a chance". Seems like he's got a lot of work to do before sniffing real NHL minutes, which is definitely a big disappointment for the Wings. On the other hand, Berggren's development does seem very promising.

As for the Habs, I don't think it's that confusing to see them higher than the Wings. Pronman likely has both Zadina and Kotkaniemi as elite prospects, and probably sees the Habs as having a deeper pool in terms of legit prospects or better, which I don't think is super debatable. I expect to see the likes of Ylonen, Juulsen and Poehling all in his "very good NHL prospects" category, but who knows. Then you've got McShane, Fonstad, and Olofsson who Pronman really liked, along with Primeau, Brook and Fleury who developed well since last season. I think many are forgetting that Juulsen is eligible for the criteria, and thus swinging it in the Habs favour IMO.

 

[TwoPiece]

Wings at 7. Very excellent rise in one short year for this team. What likely prevented them from being higher in the rankings is the lack of legit prospects. They've only got 5 players above "have a chance". Vegas had 8, Florida had 6, LAK had 7 (all teams ranked directly behind them). Both Borgstrom and Zadina were listed as elite, and Detroit has less legit+ prospects, which must tell you how high on Zadina and the rest of the Wings' top end Pronman really is. This is good news for Wings fans if that potential is reached.

I'm really hoping Hronek makes the team this year, as Pronman expects. That team needs a boost to their powerplay, and he, plus Zadina of course, would make a nice difference. He's a pretty underrated prospect among the boards, and fans who don't follow the Wings.

Disappointing to see how Svechnikov has been developing, and that's reflected by seeing him relegated to "have a chance". Seems like he's got a lot of work to do before sniffing real NHL minutes, which is definitely a big disappointment for the Wings. On the other hand, Berggren's development does seem very promising.

As for the Habs, I don't think it's that confusing to see them higher than the Wings. Pronman likely has both Zadina and Kotkaniemi as elite prospects, and probably sees the Habs as having a deeper pool in terms of legit prospects or better, which I don't think is super debatable. I expect to see the likes of Ylonen, Juulsen and Poehling all in his "very good NHL prospects" category, but who knows. Then you've got McShane, Fonstad, and Olofsson who Pronman really liked, along with Primeau, Brook and Fleury who developed well since last season. I think many are forgetting that Juulsen is eligible for the criteria, and thus swinging it in the Habs favour IMO.

As seems to be the case, Pronman must have only stat-watched Svechnikov, because after he healed from injury he was great in the AHL. And, as I have mentioned before, his last 2 weeks in the NHL were also great. His development was stunted only by injury. Instead of playing through it, he should have sat, and no one would be "down on him". When healthy, he was better than his rookie AHL season, which was a great development year for him.

 

[JohnLennon]

As seems to be the case, Pronman must have only stat-watched Svechnikov, because after he healed from injury he was great in the AHL. And, as I have mentioned before, his last 2 weeks in the NHL were also great. His development was stunted only by injury. Instead of playing through it, he should have sat, and no one would be "down on him". When healthy, he was better than his rookie AHL season, which was a great development year for him.

Pronman bases his rankings off of actual viewership, and almost never mentions stats in any of his reports. Even Svechnikov's was more about his actual ability and not about his production:

"7. Evgeny Svechnikov, LW, Grand Rapids-AHL
I’ll preface by saying I used to be a huge fan of Svechnikov’s game when he was an amateur, but it’s hard to put a positive spin on his second AHL season where he was quite mediocre at the level. He has skill and he can make plays, but the impact level was never high. I saw a good play of his a few times a game, but never really rising to a dynamic type of level. He’s never been a quick player. His skating is decent now I think but he doesn’t play with incredible pace in his game. He has a nice toolkit between his size and skills, but he has a lot to work on before he’s a full-time NHL player."

I don't think it's fair to accuse someone of stat-watching when they don't agree with your assessment of your favourite team's prospects. I don't think many people would realistically have Svechnikov in the Wings' top 5 anymore.

 

[TwoPiece]

I don't think it's fair to accuse someone of stat-watching when they don't agree with your assessment of your favourite team's prospects. I don't think many people would realistically have Svechnikov in the Wings' top 5 anymore.

It's fair, because most people think his statistics are a result of poor play. It's technically valid, but his poor play was due to a neck injury that he tried to play through, and not poor play from just being a poor player (poor decision-making, if anything). If Pronman watched Svechnikov early on, then he didn't watch a healthy Svechnikov.

The only prospects who are for sure better than Svechnikov right now are Zadina, Rasmussen, and Hronek.

 

[Mrb1p]

Maybe Pronman includes Scherback in his rankings? Hes missed the cutoff by one single game, he also made the 27 year old cutoff for Gusev IMO. It would make sense and add another high end or legit prospect to the Habs.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's fair, because most people think his statistics are a result of poor play. It's technically valid, but his poor play was due to a neck injury that he tried to play through, and not poor play from just being a poor player (poor decision-making, if anything). If Pronman watched Svechnikov early on, then he didn't watch a healthy Svechnikov.

The only prospects who are for sure better than Svechnikov right now are Zadina, Rasmussen, and Hronek.

He basically gives a description of Evgenis play... tell me, which part of his description do you not agree with? Because I can agree with 100% of what he says.

 

[JohnLennon]

It's fair, because most people think his statistics are a result of poor play. It's technically valid, but his poor play was due to a neck injury that he tried to play through, and not poor play from just being a poor player (poor decision-making, if anything). If Pronman watched Svechnikov early on, then he didn't watch a healthy Svechnikov.

The only prospects who are for sure better than Svechnikov right now are Zadina, Rasmussen, and Hronek.

Let's put it this way - what about Pronman's assessment of Svechnikov do you disagree with? As in, the paragraph I quoted for you above?

Also, what has Svechnikov done for you to rank him ahead of Veleno, Berggren, Cholowski? Even a lot of your fellow Wings fans would disagree with your assessment on that, at least from what I see on these boards and elsewhere.

 

[TwoPiece]

He basically gives a description of Evgenis play... tell me, which part of his description do you not agree with? Because I can agree with 100% of what he says.

"...it’s hard to put a positive spin on his second AHL season where he was quite mediocre at the level." When healthy, this just isn't true.

"He has skill and he can make plays, but the impact level was never high." Again, when healthy, this isn't the case.

"His skating is decent now I think but he doesn’t play with incredible pace in his game. He has a nice toolkit between his size and skills, but he has a lot to work on before he’s a full-time NHL player." And for the 3rd time, this isn't true, when Svechnikov is healthy. In particular, when he was playing with Larkin and Mantha in the NHL, he was never behind the play (his feet were always moving). Those are 2 very good skaters.

I have the feeling that Pronman didn't watch Svechnikov after 2018 rolled around. He may have, because Svechnikov isn't the most consistent of players, but if he saw multiple games of him in 2018 then I would expect his outlook to differ.

 

[TwoPiece]

Let's put it this way - what about Pronman's assessment of Svechnikov do you disagree with? As in, the paragraph I quoted for you above?

Also, what has Svechnikov done for you to rank him ahead of Veleno, Berggren, Cholowski? Even a lot of your fellow Wings fans would disagree with your assessment on that, at least from what I see on these boards and elsewhere.

A lot..? Is this a rhetorical question? I wouldn't argue against Cholowski, though, but Veleno and Berggren were just drafted. They have a lot to prove, including playing a single game at the AHL or NHL level.

 

[Mrb1p]

A lot..? Is this a rhetorical question? I wouldn't argue against Cholowski, though, but Veleno and Berggren were just drafted. They have a lot to prove, including playing a single game at the AHL or NHL level.

Playing games doesnt matter, youre looking to get the best player possible, my bet is on Berggren and Im willing to bet a few dollars on that one.

 

[TwoPiece]

Playing games doesnt matter, youre looking to get the best player possible, my bet is on Berggren and Im willing to bet a few dollars on that one.

Berggren very well could be better than Svechnikov, but today, he isn't. At least that's IMO.

Edit: I also think that Svechnikov will be better long-term. Want to clarify that my ranking isn't based on who they are today. My opinion, today, is based on who I think will be better.

 

[JohnLennon]

A lot..? Is this a rhetorical question? I wouldn't argue against Cholowski, though, but Veleno and Berggren were just drafted. They have a lot to prove, including playing a single game at the AHL or NHL level.

Not sure why you think it's a rhetorical question - Zadina was just drafted too, yet he's a lock? Svechnikov also still has just as much to prove as Veleno and Berggren...

 

[Breakers]

After reading through the rational of the rankings Buffalo Carolina and Vancouver should be 1,2,3

Carolina & Vancouver have 2 Elite prospects
Buffalo has the only Special and an Elite

 

[JohnLennon]

"...it’s hard to put a positive spin on his second AHL season where he was quite mediocre at the level." When healthy, this just isn't true.

"He has skill and he can make plays, but the impact level was never high." Again, when healthy, this isn't the case.

"His skating is decent now I think but he doesn’t play with incredible pace in his game. He has a nice toolkit between his size and skills, but he has a lot to work on before he’s a full-time NHL player." And for the 3rd time, this isn't true, when Svechnikov is healthy. In particular, when he was playing with Larkin and Mantha in the NHL, he was never behind the play (his feet were always moving). Those are 2 very good skaters.

I have the feeling that Pronman didn't watch Svechnikov after 2018 rolled around. He may have, because Svechnikov isn't the most consistent of players, but if he saw multiple games of him in 2018 then I would expect his outlook to differ.

So essentially what you're saying is Pronman's entire assessment of Svechnikov is wrong because you assume he only managed to watch Svechnikov when he was hurt.

Do you genuinely believe a guy whose career is based on watching prospects managed to miss the entire latter half of the AHL season for the Grand Rapids Griffins, a team who made the playoffs, a team on which he was evaluating not only Svechnikov, but Filip Hronek (who he ranked favourably), Saarijarvi, Hicketts, Holmstrom, and others?

Not only that, but we're going to assume that a guy who was initially quite high on Svechnikov didn't at all take into account that he was in fact injured this season when making his analysis? I don't buy it.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Berggren very well could be better than Svechnikov, but today, he isn't. At least that's IMO.

What a weird way too rate prospects.

 

[newfy]

I think people are being a little harsh on Montreal here. Pronman seems like he put a heavy emphasis on this years draft which in many people’s opinion they did very well. I don’t think I would have put them over Detroit, but they have a deep pool and a few guys that look to be solid top six/top four options in a few years.

Youre right. I dont think I would put them over detroit (I'm also biased), but they do belong in the top 10. I'm sure they'll be the next to go, although I think St Louis is really the team thats too high moreso than Montreal.

I think Pronman is high on Poehling which helps the habs but I personally think Detroits top 2 is better.Zadina/Kotkaniemi are close enough, but Rasmussen is better than Poehling imo. I would also have Hronek a bit ahead of Juuslen I think. I like Juulsen but he has no offensive upside, while Hronek was the top European dman in his draft, a very good world junior as captain of his team and has been way more productive.

Outside of that I think theyre pretty even. Scherbak might be the next best, but its hard to compare to a guy like Veleno who is a lot younger. Outside the top 2 or 3 guys from a pool most guys dont really make an impact anyways

 

[Mrb1p]

Youre right. I dont think I would put them over detroit (I'm also biased), but they do belong in the top 10. I'm sure they'll be the next to go, although I think St Louis is really the team thats too high moreso than Montreal.

I think Pronman is high on Poehling which helps the habs but I personally think Detroits top 2 is better.Zadina/Kotkaniemi are close enough, but Rasmussen is better than Poehling imo. I would also have Hronek a bit ahead of Juuslen I think. I like Juulsen but he has no offensive upside, while Hronek was the top European dman in his draft, a very good world junior as captain of his team and has been way more productive.

Outside of that I think theyre pretty even. Scherbak might be the next best, but its hard to compare to a guy like Veleno who is a lot younger. Outside the top 2 or 3 guys from a pool most guys dont really make an impact anyways

Thats the problem. Youre letting the fact that Juulsen is elite defensively at every level tell you he has no offensive potential. He got the tough matchups every where he went, thus he has lesser production. He still has some really good production, and his overall talent is really good. The way he walks the line offensively, his shot and the way he can move the puck effectively is valuable.

If you mean hell never be a 60 points player, sure. But I dont think Hronek has that potential.

 

[newfy]

Thats the problem. Youre letting the fact that Juulsen is elite defensively at every level tell you he has no offensive potential. He got the tough matchups every where he went, thus he has lesser production. He still has some really good production, and his overall talent is really good. The way he walks the line offensively, his shot and the way he can move the puck effectively is valuable.

If you mean hell never be a 60 points player, sure. But I dont think Hronek has that potential.

He has offensive potential in that he can be a stay at home type who can move the puck. There is nothing about Juulsens game that says he has offensive potential. Hroneks offensive potential is a couple tiers above his. All first round pick dmen get tough matchups everywhere they go. Hronek was the same way in the OHL except that didnt stop him from being productive in the OHL either.

Juulsen will be one of those new age NHL shutdown D that can skate and play in his end, but move it well enough to get out of his end. Thats the extent of his offensive upside

 

[Mrb1p]

He has offensive potential in that he can be a stay at home type who can move the puck. There is nothing about Juulsens game that says he has offensive potential. Hroneks offensive potential is a couple tiers above his. All first round pick dmen get tough matchups everywhere they go. Hronek was the same way in the OHL except that didnt stop him from being productive in the OHL either.

Juulsen will be one of those new age NHL shutdown D that can skate and play in his end, but move it well enough to get out of his end. Thats the extent of his offensive upside

Literally the same thing I just accused you of, without even realizing.

Juulsen has a great shot, hes a good skater, especially his lateral mobility, hes much more than a "new age shutdown D".

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

So essentially what you're saying is Pronman's entire assessment of Svechnikov is wrong because you assume he only managed to watch Svechnikov when he was hurt.

Do you genuinely believe a guy whose career is based on watching prospects managed to miss the entire latter half of the AHL season for the Grand Rapids Griffins, a team who made the playoffs, a team on which he was evaluating not only Svechnikov, but Filip Hronek (who he ranked favourably), Saarijarvi, Hicketts, Holmstrom, and others?

Not only that, but we're going to assume that a guy who was initially quite high on Svechnikov didn't at all take into account that he was in fact injured this season when making his analysis? I don't buy it.

Do you think he watches them more than everyone else just because he is Corey Pronman???

I ask this honestly, because some of us have the streaming rights to junior, AHL and watch a lot of games. I know that isn't a huge crew, but there are a few of us that follow our teams, affiliates and prospects quite a bit closer than Pronman. I really don't understand Cholowski or Rasmussen being in the tiers they are in. But again I bought the WHL steaming and watched both guys play a ton last year just to watch them play and focus on them. That isn't realistic for Pronman and I understand that. He is a prisoner to the viewings he gets to see and it shows at times.

I don't think he was overly harsh on Svechnikov. But that doesn't mean I don't find some of his rankings over the years odd as well. It's his opinion just like several of us have opinions around here. Now biases can certainly creep in. But when he makes comments in the section like Rasmussen hasn't dominated the WHL when he was a scoring riot when he got back from injury is missing some of the picture. He also overlooked some public knowledge in the Wings rundown. Things that if he asked people like Custance about he could avoid some confusion. To even attempt selling Rasmussen as WHL bound is fairly silly given the organizational stance. Also, quite a few people in the threads around HF would straight trash him for commenting that Rasmussen wasn't one of Canada's best forwards at the Summer Series showcase because he was. Pronman has some biases as well over the years when you read his stuff. I enjoy his work but it isn't exactly gospel to me either.

 

[Dbrownss]

Youre right. I dont think I would put them over detroit (I'm also biased), but they do belong in the top 10. I'm sure they'll be the next to go, although I think St Louis is really the team thats too high moreso than Montreal.

I think Pronman is high on Poehling which helps the habs but I personally think Detroits top 2 is better.Zadina/Kotkaniemi are close enough, but Rasmussen is better than Poehling imo. I would also have Hronek a bit ahead of Juuslen I think. I like Juulsen but he has no offensive upside, while Hronek was the top European dman in his draft, a very good world junior as captain of his team and has been way more productive.

Outside of that I think theyre pretty even. Scherbak might be the next best, but its hard to compare to a guy like Veleno who is a lot younger. Outside the top 2 or 3 guys from a pool most guys dont really make an impact anyways

Howso? They have a top heavy pool

 

[TeddyBare]

Do you think he watches them more than everyone else just because he is Corey Pronman???

I ask this honestly, because some of us have the streaming rights to junior, AHL and watch a lot of games. I know that isn't a huge crew, but there are a few of us that follow our teams, affiliates and prospects quite a bit closer than Pronman. I really don't understand Cholowski or Rasmussen being in the tiers they are in. But again I bought the WHL steaming and watched both guys play a ton last year just to watch them play and focus on them. That isn't realistic for Pronman and I understand that. He is a prisoner to the viewings he gets to see and it shows at times.

I don't think he was overly harsh on Svechnikov. But that doesn't mean I don't find some of his rankings over the years odd as well. It's his opinion just like several of us have opinions around here. Now biases can certainly creep in. But when he makes comments in the section like Rasmussen hasn't dominated the WHL when he was a scoring riot when he got back from injury is missing some of the picture. He also overlooked some public knowledge in the Wings rundown. Things that if he asked people like Custance about he could avoid some confusion. To even attempt selling Rasmussen as WHL bound is fairly silly given the organizational stance. Also, quite a few people in the threads around HF would straight trash him for commenting that Rasmussen wasn't one of Canada's best forwards at the Summer Series showcase because he was. Pronman has some biases as well over the years when you read his stuff. I enjoy his work but it isn't exactly gospel to me either.

He doesnt watch more than Craig Button. Not a chance.

Craig watches and does so many games, he is interviewed by sports reporters at intermissions all over Canada of Junior games.
But he would also have a substantially higher budget to do so working for TSN and getting airtime