The Athletic - 2018/19 NHL Farm system rankings

[FlyTimmo]

Wouldnt you agree that Kotkaniemi is better than anything NYR and Philly have?

Also, its 5 seconds in two years, not just this year.

Plus two guys in Hillis and Fonstad CP ranked as 2nd rounders.

Chytil is similar, if not better than Kotka.

 

[Mrb1p]

Chytil is similar, if not better than Kotka.

See, I love Chytil (And Tolvanen) but these two guys were drafted outside the top 20 for a reason, I have a hard time ranking the 21st pick equal to the 3rd pick overall (Or the 5th, if you believe there was a reach).

It's akin to comparing Heiskanen or Pettersson to Borgstrom, Colin White/Eriksson Ek to PLD and Tkachuk, Marner to Kapanen.

Obviously there might be a belief that Kotkaniemi is far inferior to all those players somewhere in here.

 

[Deficient Mode]

My guess for the 8 elite prospects would be Svechnikov, Petterssen, Mittelstadt, Borgstrom, Zadina, Kotkaniemi, Necas, and Thomas. Don't see Hughes being in there with Heiskanen and Makar not being considered elite. But it's possible. Vilardi or Hughes could knock out Thomas

Pronman was not as high on Makar and Heiskanen especially pre-draft as some others were. I'm guessing he likes Hughes' offense a lot more than Heiskanen's and Hughes' defense more than Makar's. I'd lean Hughes over Thomas.

 

[FlyTimmo]

See, I love Chytil (And Tolvanen) but these two guys were drafted outside the top 20 for a reason, I have a hard time ranking the 21st pick equal to the 3rd pick overall (Or the 5th, if you believe there was a reach).

It's akin to comparing Heiskanen or Pettersson to Borgstrom, Colin White/Eriksson Ek to PLD and Tkachuk, Marner to Kapanen.

Obviously there might be a belief that Kotkaniemi is far inferior to all those players somewhere in here.

I was in the the Habs should draft Kotka and not Zadina/Hughes/etc group. So, I think he is fine, at #3, but as you know, prospects can improve. And Chytil made some excellent improvements, and it pains me as a Flyer fan to be this complimentary of a Ranger, but he does have some Malkin-lite qualities. He had a very impressive season for an 18yo in the AHL.

You may prefer Kotka, and I slightly prefer Chytil. Either way, the gap is likely small at the worst in either direction.

 

[Calad]

See, I love Chytil (And Tolvanen) but these two guys were drafted outside the top 20 for a reason, I have a hard time ranking the 21st pick equal to the 3rd pick overall (Or the 5th, if you believe there was a reach).

It's akin to comparing Heiskanen or Pettersson to Borgstrom, Colin White/Eriksson Ek to PLD and Tkachuk, Marner to Kapanen.

Obviously there might be a belief that Kotkaniemi is far inferior to all those players somewhere in here.

Chytil was just shy of being in the 2018 draft, and I think he easily would go 3 to Montréal if he were there. Chytil was very underscouted and a raw at the time, Rangers gambled on his upside and it paid off big time he blossomed in his D+1 year.

 

[Deam78]

Chytil was just shy of being in the 2018 draft, and I think he easily would go 3 to Montréal if he were there. Chytil was very underscouted and a raw at the time, Rangers gambled on his upside and it paid off big time he blossomed in his D+1 year.

They're 10 months apart, it would've been the same debate as with Zadina, Kotka has more room to grow. I think you need to pump the break a bit with Chytil, I've seen scouts in redraft put him as high as 8-10 (Pronman for example) but not top 3.

 

[Mrb1p]

Chytil was just shy of being in the 2018 draft, and I think he easily would go 3 to Montréal if he were there. Chytil was very underscouted and a raw at the time, Rangers gambled on his upside and it paid off big time he blossomed in his D+1 year.

Yet, the same, I mean, EXACT same thing can be said of Kotkaniemi, but he was better.

 

[93LEAFS]

My guess for the 8 elite prospects would be Svechnikov, Petterssen, Mittelstadt, Borgstrom, Zadina, Kotkaniemi, Necas, and Thomas. Don't see Hughes being in there with Heiskanen and Makar not being considered elite. But it's possible. Vilardi or Hughes could knock out Thomas

Hughes will be ahead of Kotkaniemi. Hughes was ahead in the draft rankings, and I don't think anything at the WJCSS changes it. The only notable change I have seen is he bumped Hayton up a tier post draft which felt a bit reactionary to his draft slot.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Hughes will be ahead of Kotkaniemi. Hughes was ahead in the draft rankings, and I don't think anything at the WJCSS changes it. The only notable change I have seen is he bumped Hayton up a tier post draft which felt a bit reactionary to his draft slot.

Kotkaniemi was one spot ahead of Hughes in his final draft rankings. But Hughes apparently nudged ahead at the summer showcase. Regardless, both are going to be in the same tier.

 

[93LEAFS]

Kotkaniemi was one spot ahead of Hughes in his final draft rankings. But Hughes apparently nudged ahead at the summer showcase. Regardless, both are going to be in the same tier.

Yeah, I misremembered the list. They will end up in the same tier. I still don't get how he didn't have a tier gap between Svechnikov and his next group. Although, unlike some, I never waivered on Svechnikov at 2. I know Pronman and Button both dropped him at one point.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Yeah, I misremembered the list. They will end up in the same tier. I still don't get how he didn't have a tier gap between Svechnikov and his next group. Although, unlike some, I never waivered on Svechnikov at 2. I now Pronman and Button both dropped him at one point.

Yeah. Pretty sure Pronman at one point had Zadina at 2, Hughes at 3, and Svechnikov at 4.

 

[Deam78]

Yeah. Pretty sure Pronman at one point had Zadina at 2, Hughes at 3, and Svechnikov at 4.

Dahlin
Svech
Zadina 3A
Kotkaniemi 3B
Hughes

But told me earlier he now has Hughes just before Kotka

 

[Deficient Mode]

Dahlin
Svech
Zadina 3A
Kotkaniemi 3B
Hughes

But told me earlier he now has Hughes just before Kotka

Yes, that was the final ranking. In his midseason version he had what I described.

 

[Deam78]

Yes, that was the final ranking. In his midseason version he had what I described.

Ah my bad, thought you were talking about final rankings.

 

[GTA]

Chytil was just shy of being in the 2018 draft, and I think he easily would go 3 to Montréal if he were there. Chytil was very underscouted and a raw at the time, Rangers gambled on his upside and it paid off big time he blossomed in his D+1 year.

Underscouted in the Czech league + U18s?

 

[firstemperor]

Wouldnt you agree that Kotkaniemi is better than anything NYR and Philly have?

Also, its 5 seconds in two years, not just this year.

Plus two guys in Hillis and Fonstad CP ranked as 2nd rounders.

I'd have Kotkaniemi the highest prospect of both teams quite comfortably, but the depth of both pools supersedes that of MTL to the point I'd rank both teams higher. Though as I mentioned, if it's only +/- 2 spots or so, it's only a minor quibble at most.

 

[Calad]

Underscouted in the Czech league + U18s?

It is my understanding it was because of his age

 

[IronMarshal]

Morozov is great, scouted him a lot this year because the Habs needed Cs.

Anway, Hague is the other one Id consider a first rounder in a redraft. The guy has shattered expectations and is tracking really well.



I agree on Florida and STL. Im not as high on Borgstrom as I am on Kotkaniemi, Vilardi, Glass/Hague, Florida and STL should be the next teams here, and tbh, Id rank both behind Philly and NYR.

As for Vegas though, I cannot agree. Even if I have to agree with your assertion that the depth is really outstanding. Id consider all five of Vegas prospect better than Philly.

Glass to Frost
Suzuki to Farabee
Brannstrom to Myers
Hague to Obrien
Morozov to Allisson or Ratcliffe

Really this Vegas crop could lead to an elite two way 1C, an elite offensive D, a huge two way D, a first winger and a 2C while Philly would lead to a 2C, a top 6 winger, a huge top 4 D and maybes in Allisson and Obrien?

Again, nothing close to a bad pool, but theres a difference. As a team that has struggled to land a 1C for decades, Im sure the Habs would rather have one shot at Glass and add in the others than the Flyers crop.

I really look at the NHL as a market where everyone is looking to add 1Cs and 1Ds, who do you think is closer to that? Vegas or Philly?

Carter Hart? I see he was ignored in the comparison. He may be the Flyers best prospect.

I'll give you Glass over Frost (Glass is bigger, the rest is very close - I am a big fan of both players). This won't be popular but I'll take Myers over Brannstrom. He will be far superior on defense, and would post good offensive numbers except the Flyers have Provorov, Gostisbehere, and Sanheim to run the offense from the blue line. I'll take him easily over Hague (who I like) too. I really like Suzuki, I really like Farabee. I'll bet Farabee has a better career, he does more things. Morozov v. Allison/Ratcliffe the jury is out on. All second round picks that could have gone late first. The point is the Flyers have two guys to Vegas' 1.

I really like Vegas' group. I don't think they are anywhere as deep as Philly (tough with only 1 year of existence), and at the top end, there is not much separating them, in fact the edge could go to the Flyers, and probably does when you add Hart and the 2-1 Morozov thing. Here is a better match, compare the two centers Morozov verses O'Brien who looks a lot better than people thought this summer.

 

[IronMarshal]

Pronman had Ylönen at 14 on his draft board - 13 spots above Farabee. Probably the reason you disagree.

I will take the Flyers scouts given their track record over Corey Pronman every day, and as I have said, I like Corey's work. He is one of the reasons I subscribed to the Athletic, along with Alex Appleyard and Charlie O'Conner.

 

[IronMarshal]

I am fine with it because, again, he is predictable. I knew he would rank the Flyers worse than everyone else. I called it.

As I said, wait until all the other publications come out and we will see who's list seems like the outlier.

In the end, I trust the Flyers scouts over CP and what he sees. And the fact that he KNEW it would ruffle feathers shows he knows he is going against the consensus. And that is his right.

Exactly this.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I will take the Flyers scouts given their track record over Corey Pronman every day, and as I have said, I like Corey's work. He is one of the reasons I subscribed to the Athletic, along with Alex Appleyard and Charlie O'Conner.

I mean, the Flyers haven't drafted a Finn in 12 years. Do they intensely scout the Finnish leagues including the Mestis and still never draft anyone there? Not to say the Flyers scouts won't find a lot of value, but I wouldn't take their overlooking Ylönen as proof that Farabee is better. It's entirely possible that many other NHL scouts/teams had Ylönen above Farabee, too, but they had other players above both and those players were there to be taken.

 

[Tripod]

I mean, the Flyers haven't drafted a Finn in 12 years. Do they intensely scout the Finnish leagues including the Mestis and still never draft anyone there? Not to say the Flyers scouts won't find a lot of value, but I wouldn't take their overlooking Ylönen as proof that Farabee is better. It's entirely possible that many other NHL scouts/teams had Ylönen above Farabee, too, but they had other players above both and those players were there to be taken.

Well here is 17 other lists and only 2 have Ylonen even in the top 30. And only 1 out of 17 has Ylonen over Farabee.....Pronman.

But yeah...I am sure there are lots others that do that we just don't know about.



2018 NHL Draft Rankings

 

[Deficient Mode]

Well here is 17 other lists and only 2 have Ylonen even in the top 30. And only 1 out of 17 has Ylonen over Farabee.....Pronman.

But yeah...I am sure there are lots others that do that we just don't know about.



2018 NHL Draft Rankings

Yeah, consensus definitely favored Farabee. I'm aware of that. Teams will abandon consensus very quickly on their own boards though e.g. Jay O'Brien. There's a lot of uncertainty if you're going to appeal to the authority of NHL scouts as a whole to say one player is better than another, or to say others didn't have Ylönen as a first round talent, but simply preferred another player even more.

 

[gucc]

I asked him a question where he said he bumped Hughes up a bit after the WJSS, to the point he would be before Kotkaniemi. So I suppose Hughes is elite and one of Kotkaniemi/Thomas/Borgstrom won't be. My guess is Thomas won't as he's also mentioned Borgstrom as a guy who could contend for Calder and he was really high on Jesperi.

He's very high on all of Hughes, Kotka, Thomas, and Borgstrom. I personally wouldn't put Thomas into elite given his other rankings. But I figured since he was the most favorable prospect out of the remaining teams (not including Hughes because of Heiskanen's rank). But I'm starting to think that it will be Hughes over Thomas anyways. I think Borgstrom will definitely be in the elite category.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Pleasantly surprised Habs made top 10. Would’ve thought we got around 12-15 range.