The Players' Tribune: The Astronaut - By Wayne Simmonds

[Grub]

Yah, please no mandatory first black guy in the HOF just because he was the first. Like a poster previously said I think guys like Iginla and Subban have a great chance to be in the HHOF.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not really. Besides Native Americans there really hasn't been any other group or race with such bias held against them in this country.

To be fair, I look at my community and shake my head and get that we don't do ourselves any favors either. There's those that have been oppressed and have taken a higher road, then there's those that are angry and are so far removed from the generation that was truly oppressed that it's almost insulting to see certain movements that are doing more harm than good.

When you're half black, the part that people see are just the black side. I've grown up seeing people that choose not to be idiots about their background, then I see the ones that do and that's their fault, no movement fixes ignorance within a community that whines about ignorance in others.

 

[The Noot]

Well, you are proving my point, so thank you I guess))

I'll take that as a compliment, but sadly enough I don't think you can project from me to an entire continent.
Look, I'm glad that you had a positive experience in Europe. I really am. But as a traveler, you don't really get to see much about the culture of a country and how society treats its residents. You get to see how they treat their tourists and maybe short time workers, that's all.

As someone who actually LIVES in this "humanitarian paradise" (a part of it, at least), let me tell you that we definitely have loads of issues with racism and xenophobia. The chief of security in Zurich pretty much openly admitted that racial profiling is a widespread issue among police forces (source), reported cases of racism are at a record high (source) and right wing parties are running posters that send chills down my spine with great success. Just as a few examples.
While I don't experience these issues first hand (for obvious reasons), discussions with minorities about this topic showed me that I'm not too far off with my "gut feeling" in this case.

Granted, it might very well be that the situation is better in other places in Europe, but from my experience I don't think that your post is accurate.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Dude. Racism is alive and well in Canada and the rest of the world especially Europe. Simmonds alludes to this in his article.

Agree.

Saying "we're less racist than the US to black people" is barely an accomplishment. And what about Asians, Quebecers, or dare I even mention First Nations?

I grew up in the Edmonton area thinking my own experience was reality. I had a few friends of various ethnicity and never experienced anything except for common slurs about Asians and First Nations (mostly against First Nations). Jarome Iginla was my age and in my community, also close with some of my buds when younger. I saw interview with him where he kind of laughs about breaking some color barrier. #1. We idolized Grant Fuhr as kids & #2. We all know it's not that hard being a "Canadian Black Guy" vs. Asian or worse First Nation playing hockey. I felt like we shared the same mostly non-racist experiences in our bubble.

A recent video from another High School classmate Jesse Lipscombe opened my eyes. Racial slurs were hurled at him in downtown Edmonton. ’Thanks for your ignorance:’ Edmonton actor Jesse Lipscombe posts video with man’s racist slurs

I honestly DO NOT know this feeling.
I was wrong to think Edmonton "isn't that racist for Black People".
I cried slightly when watching the video. Somehow I just felt horrible and ashamed about it. Dunno.

For the record I met Wayne last year after they lost the Gold medal final. Really a great dude who asked me about myself, invited for a beer, said he liked me to his teammates, etc. I'm proud to be Canadian and have people like Wayne represent us as sportsmen and a nation.

 

[oXo Cube]

If Willie O'Ree deserves to be in the HHOF.

So does Larry Kwong.

And I say this as someone that is half black, you can't do that and then not do it for Kwong. As a matter of fact, the talk about O'Ree and none about Kwong is more annoying to me as a person of color than this whole "hey we still get racist stuff said to us" and yeah, we do, but I mean, so do other ethnicities, which sucks, but ignorance is a part of society and unfortunately, society still hasn't grown up mentally, as a whole.

Kwong was the first person to break the "color" barrier in the NHL. 1 game vs 45 games, why should that matter?

With that said, it's the HHOF, it's earned by the merits of tenure in the game in some way or another. Willie O'Ree has been a good ambassador since he retired, he could get in for that, but Simmonds needs to stop some agenda of "he was black, the first person of color (no, he wasn't)..."

Guys that played the game, helped build it as a GM/Coach, etc...they deserve it.

You understand that this is what all of his supporters are arguing, right?

 

[Van Buren Boy]

As someone with kids, this article choked me up. He has some outstanding parents and i know the feeling of wanting to give your kids everything even when we might think it isn't possible. I know i would do anything for mine. What a great story.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Every time I think I can't love Wayne Simmonds more, he proves me wrong. Killer read.

 

[Huggy]

Great article.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Good Scarborough boy

 

[Mike Lowry]

My gosh. What is your vendetta against Subban?

I know right, terrible that I think a player should be judged on his play.

People are suggesting that a guy who is the 4th best D on his team in a league of 31 teams, and isn't good enough to be one of the top 7 Dman from his country, should not only win the Norrs Trophy, but should go to the Hall of Fame. Crazy right?

It's pretty obvious

I always find it interesting how much a certain ilk hates facts. Subban is an inferior player to many around him, but get publicity and praise as if he is the modern version of Bobby Orr. Geez, I wonder why that is

 

[YEM]

Subban is an inferior player to many around him,

he's a great player, but you feel the need to put him down
Geez, I wonder why that is...

 

[Mike Lowry]

he's a great player, but you feel the need to put him down
Geez, I wonder why that is...

How is he a great player? Again, please just answer the question instead of trying to move the goal posts.

He's bettered by 3 other players in his position on his own team. He has been left of the line-up card in 3 best on best tournament while he has been a pro. Heck, as I said, he gets left off the ice in Nashville when it goes to 3 on 3.

If you want to call him your version of great, that's fine. But if Subban is great according to you, then what do you call Jossi, Ellis and Ekholm, all of whom are better?

I know you won't answer. The Subban fanclub never does

He's trying to bite off more than he can chew and get this thread sent to the politics board where he will be summarily murdered.

Wayne Simmons wants Willie O'Ree in the Hall of Fame simply because the man was the first black skinned hockey player to play in the NHL. Doesn't care about the first Native. Or the first Asian or Latino. Doesn't care about the players who risked their lives to defect from Communist countries to play in the NHL. There is no evidence whatsoever that O'Ree, or anyone before of after him, was kept out of playing in the NHL because of his skin colour. I'm always amazed at people who scream that they want equality, turn around the next day and demand for special treatment.

Really Wayne, you heard the N-word while playing hockey? Are you saying you never heard that word while playing basketball while growing up in Scarborough? Never heard it get said while out and about in those low income communities around Philadelphia? Nah, the people who said it then looked like you, so it was all good

 

[Garl]

I'll take that as a compliment, but sadly enough I don't think you can project from me to an entire continent.
Look, I'm glad that you had a positive experience in Europe. I really am. But as a traveler, you don't really get to see much about the culture of a country and how society treats its residents. You get to see how they treat their tourists and maybe short time workers, that's all.

As someone who actually LIVES in this "humanitarian paradise" (a part of it, at least), let me tell you that we definitely have loads of issues with racism and xenophobia. The chief of security in Zurich pretty much openly admitted that racial profiling is a widespread issue among police forces (source), reported cases of racism are at a record high (source) and right wing parties are running posters that send chills down my spine with great success. Just as a few examples.
While I don't experience these issues first hand (for obvious reasons), discussions with minorities about this topic showed me that I'm not too far off with my "gut feeling" in this case.

Granted, it might very well be that the situation is better in other places in Europe, but from my experience I don't think that your post is accurate.

I will not go into politics, this board is not for this. Let's just make a point clear. I didn't claim that europeans are incapable of xenophbia, racism or in-group preferences(I don't think in-group preferences are evil by nature). I said, that europeans, espescially western europeans have weakest in-group preferences out there.
As for racial/ethnic tensions, well, they are always present in multi-ethnic, multi-cultural societies.

 

[YEM]

How is he a great player?

practice + hard work

 

[Mike Lowry]

practice + hard work

So as I noted, you can't answer.

Don't feel too bad; everyone on your ilk is in the same boat. Hard how life can be outside the echo chamber eh?

 

[COHawk]

Wow, I didn’t realize that he’s only played in 45 career NHL games. It’s kind of an insult to the games greats to even discuss Willie being named to the Hall of Fame. He should not be honored as a player. If they can carve out an exception, like as a humanitarian, do it that way.

This is like saying retiring Jackie Robinson's number for all MLB teams is insulting players who were better than him. Get over it.

 

[Revelation]

I mean... it's pretty telling how these threads always seem to attract the bottom of the barrel posters on these boards. As well as their racist hot takes and lack of context when they're confronted with uncomfortable realities they'd rather pretend don't exist.

This, the casual racism behind "check your privilege" paired with institutional discrimination based on ethnicity and skin color in this day and age is pretty appalling.

 

[chaosrevolver]

How is he a great player? Again, please just answer the question instead of trying to move the goal posts.

He's bettered by 3 other players in his position on his own team. He has been left of the line-up card in 3 best on best tournament while he has been a pro. Heck, as I said, he gets left off the ice in Nashville when it goes to 3 on 3.

If you want to call him your version of great, that's fine. But if Subban is great according to you, then what do you call Jossi, Ellis and Ekholm, all of whom are better?

I know you won't answer. The Subban fan club never does.

Well PK is better than Ellis and Ekholm and is on the same level of Josi and arguably better.

You feel they are better and thats fine but very very few will agree..and considering PKs pairing often gets the shutdown minutes..well it seems Nashville agrees.

As for 3 on 3..thats a pretty terrible way to judge a defenseman.

Also..you judge PK cause he cant beat out Doughty, Weber and Pietrangelo for a RD spot. Thats a bit absurd considering who is competition is and due to some of the biases Canada shows to less risky players.

Less risky doesnt always translate into better.

You ignore all his accomplishments and call him a 4th defender..and meanwhile the rest of the world doesnt view things the way you do.

Thats fine though, you do you. No one will convince you different.

 

[Mike Lowry]

Well PK is better than Ellis and Ekholm and is on the same level of Josi and arguably better.

Nashville coaching staff feels differently. Why do you know more than them?

You feel they are better and thats fine but very very few will agree

Peter Laviolette and I are of the same opinion. I don't think you, or someone else peaking up from the basement matter.

..and considering PKs pairing often gets the shutdown minutes..well it seems Nashville agrees.

Often? You mean after the #1 pair has been out there? Top end Dman play in every situation. Jossi does. So does Weber. Doughty as well. Add Hedman to that and Tyson Barrie. Pieterangelo is on that list. Why not Subban?

As for 3 on 3..thats a pretty terrible way to judge a defenseman.

How so? Never mind, this would require you to articulate a response based on experience and intelligence. Seeing who a coach puts on the ice during a 3 on 3, during an important penalty kill, at the end of a close game, tells you who he trusts and who he doesn't. Thinking 3 on 3 icetime doesn't matter is ignorant.

Again, the best players play at the best times. When Nashville goes with 3 other guys before they even think of playing Subban, it sends a crystal clear message that he isn't one of their best.

Also..you judge PK cause he cant beat out Doughty, Weber and Pietrangelo for a RD spot. Thats a bit absurd considering who is competition is and

So you are acknowledging that those 3 are superior players than Subban? Good, you are learning. And guess what, Ryan Ellis would be ahead of him as well. So are a few others.

due to some of the biases Canada shows to less risky players.

I really don't get why the basement crowd thinks risky is good when trying to win Championships.

Less risky doesnt always translate into better.

Over a century of this sport being played says otherwise. Seriously, go coach a hockey team next fall. When the game is on the line, you make the decision who you want out there; the guy who will make the right play and get you the W, or the one who will end up coughing up the puck costing you the game. Get back to me on that

You ignore all his accomplishments and call him a 4th defender

What accomplishments? Seriously.

And I'm not calling him a 4th D, he is a 4th D. Remember how I articulated that 3 other D go out during 3 on 3 before he does? How I pointed out that when Ellis was injured, Ekholm moved up to play with Jossi, while Emilen moved up to play with Subban? He's a 4th D!!!!!

..and meanwhile the rest of the world doesnt view things the way you do.

The Nashville coaching staff does. Same can be said about Hockey Canada. So what "rest of the world" are you talking about? More people like you who have never played hockey, and just started watching it a few years ago?

Thats fine though, you do you. No one will convince you different.

Why should I be convinced on something that is fundamentally wrong?

 

[Pens x]

This is like saying retiring Jackie Robinson's number for all MLB teams is insulting players who were better than him. Get over it.

Wow, there is so much wrong with this post. Robinson was a great player while O’Ree couldn’t even last a single season in the league.

 

[COHawk]

Wow, there is so much wrong with this post. Robinson was a great player while O’Ree couldn’t even last a single season in the league.

Yes, of course he was a great player. But he is the only great player to ever have his number retired league wide, and it wasn't because he was the absolute best like Gretzky. O'Ree would arguably be the only non-great player to make the hall. Neither would be an attempt to insult anyone, but to celebrate what both of these players did for their respective games and humanity in general. While an extreme example I know, these are the exceptions to the rules, not the norms. Having said that, I do think O'Ree should be in as a builder and not as a player.