Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Does anyone know how the text message came to light? Like, did the teammate make it public?
Subpoena'd.
Does anyone know how the text message came to light? Like, did the teammate make it public?
Does anyone know how the text message came to light? Like, did the teammate make it public?
Clause in the CBA which allowed Bettman to obtain Widemans text/phone records.
They said it was subpoenaed but I don't know how they can legally subpoena text message records from 4 days after the event in question. Seems really suspect to me.Does anyone know how the text message came to light? Like, did the teammate make it public?
I think the NHLPA will file a grievance on this since he isn't using that power to determine guilt or innocence, but rather to say he isn't taking responsibility for his actions; seems very close to an abuse of power to me.Clause in the CBA which allowed Bettman to obtain Widemans text/phone records.
Does anyone know how the text message came to light? Like, did the teammate make it public?
I don't think you can point to one text and say he wasn't remorseful, especially after a hearing where many believe the officials union decided to play hardball.In an arbitration hearing* like this both sides can make discovery requests of the other that can be used to support their case in the hearing. Apparently the NHL requested text messages sent by Wideman under some defined set of conditions. Almost certainly the PA requested internal emails from the NHL discussing the original suspension decision or other communications related to it. The arbitrator (Bettman) has the authority to decide whether or not to grant discovery requests to each side, though in expedited timelines like this its likely the NHL and PA agreed to each others discovery requests without needing a ruling by Bettman.
The text from Wideman is supposedly from immediately after his original hearing in New York on Feb 2nd. It wouldn't "prove" anything, but seems to be included in support of the NHL's position that Wideman wasn't remorseful.
* The Bettman hearing is an arbitration hearing with Bettman acting as the arbitrator. If the PA follows through with their declaration of appealing then it will be another arbitration hearing heard by the CBA's Independent Arbitrator.
IMO they have abused this entire process. This decision should have been made in time for the independent arbitrator to hear the case prior to Wideman missing his 6th game, now they are finally getting there after he has served 8 games and it seems unlikely that the arbitrator will have a ruling before game 10.Being resentful about the hearing process =/= not being remorseful about the hit. Pretty poor justification there. Has an air of grasping at straws, but that's to be expected. I did not expect a reasonable result from anyone other than the arbitrator.
I don't think you can point to one text and say he wasn't remorseful, especially after a hearing where many believe the officials union decided to play hardball.
It's the same reason why pretty much every Flames fan in the world knew Bettman wasn't going to reduce the length of the suspension, because he didn't want to upset the officials union. Pissing off the PA is one thing when you know you won't have a strike or lockout for a while, but I think the Refs only have a year or 2 left on their CBA
IMO they have abused this entire process. This decision should have been made in time for the independent arbitrator to hear the case prior to Wideman missing his 6th game, now they are finally getting there after he has served 8 games and it seems unlikely that the arbitrator will have a ruling before game 10.
I'm not personally endorsing whether the text means he isn't remorseful, I was observing the NHL probably included it in support of their conclusion he wasn't remorseful.
fwiw, all of Wideman's texts that were responsive to the discovery requests could have been presented in the hearing, and the PA would have had the opportunity to counter any arguments made by the NHL as to their significance. While we only see the one text mentioned in the ruling, it's entirely possible other texts (by Wideman or others) were presented and used in support of both the NHL and PA's positions.
IMO it's impossible to form a educated opinion on that without knowing all the work that went into the arbitration hearing process. The delay between Wideman's initial hearing and the hearing by Bettman was almost certainly not the NHL dragging its feet--both sides lawyers need time to exchange their legal arguments, agree on discovery, depose witnesses, and exchange final arguments all prior to the actual hearing taking place.
Clause in the CBA which allowed Bettman to obtain Widemans text/phone records.
I just don't see how the NHL can offer 3rd party arbitration on a suspension of 6 or more games and then not have everything done in time for the arbitrator to rule before the 6th game. Honestly I don't even know how that would be legal, especially in this case when the NHLPA is not fighting for a reduction in the suspension length but to have it rescinded completely.
But you are right we do not know what the NHL and NHLPA agreed to in regards to these delays. But I think one thing that is certain is if it is the NHL dragging their feet, then the PA will be filing a grievance and will look into potential legal action.
If Wideman were to win in front of the neutral arbitrator and have his suspension eliminated or reduced to less then games served he would still get all the backpay that would have otherwise been forfeited. From the PA labor point of view that's more important then games missed.
Hide your phones NHL players! This is outrageous.
But from the Flames organization standpoint, they'll make it about the games missed. With him out of the lineup, they lost 4 out of the 8 games. The can cite negative attention drawn to the team, coaches and players, media pressures, and any other distractions relating to this circus as contributing to lost game while in the playoff hunt.
With a lack of precedent, the NHL has completely mishandled this whole process. This will rear it ugly head come time to renegotiate the CBA.
You're not really getting this whole process apparently. It's gone beyond his guilt or innocence. The way Bettman has handled the appeal, making Wideman's private texts public, discrediting medical testimony. It's a farce and I hope the arbitrator completely rescinds the suspension only to make the NHL look like bigger jokes than they already are!The NHL has handled the whole thing fine. Not sure how the Flames can blame the NHL for things that resulted from their own players actions.
The NHL didn't bring negative attention to the team that was Wideman. The NHL didn't hit the ref making Wideman miss games, again that was Wideman. The circus was created 100% by Wideman so if the Flames want to blame anyone (and judging by their and Wideman's behaviour in this whole thing looking to blame others is exactly what they want to do) they should blame Wideman.
As to the losing 4 games out of 8. That a. seems pretty similar to their record with Wideman in the line-up and b. the team is much better with him out of the line-up.
But from the Flames organization standpoint, they'll make it about the games missed. With him out of the lineup, they lost 4 out of the 8 games. The can cite negative attention drawn to the team, coaches and players, media pressures, and any other distractions relating to this circus as contributing to lost game while in the playoff hunt.
With a lack of precedent, the NHL has completely mishandled this whole process. This will rear it ugly head come time to renegotiate the CBA.
You're not really getting this whole process apparently. It's gone beyond his guilt or innocence. The way Bettman has handled the appeal, making Wideman's private texts public, discrediting medical testimony. It's a farce and I hope the arbitrator completely rescinds the suspension only to make the NHL look like bigger jokes than they already are!
Frankly, I don't care if Wideman is in the line up or not. He's not the reason we win games and not the reason we lose them either, but you better believe the Flames organization will use everything they can against the league if an arbitrator lowers or rescinds the suspension.
I know this is going to be unpopular, but the Flames organization has no standing in the CBA to grieve the situation. I suppose they could ask for some compensation by the NHL's board of governors (i.e. the other NHL owners).
I'm not sure what you're referring to on "lack of precedent". Players have been suspended in the past for 20 games involving physical contact with an official. It's even codified in the NHL rule book. The hearings and appeal followed the standard CBA processes . About the only thing there's lack of precedent for is the argument raised by Wideman's side that he's not at fault due to the results of a concussion. What changes would you suggest the PA should fight for in the next CBA?
You're not really getting this whole process apparently. It's gone beyond his guilt or innocence. The way Bettman has handled the appeal, making Wideman's private texts public, discrediting medical testimony. It's a farce and I hope the arbitrator completely rescinds the suspension only to make the NHL look like bigger jokes than they already are!
Frankly, I don't care if Wideman is in the line up or not. He's not the reason we win games and not the reason we lose them either, but you better believe the Flames organization will use everything they can against the league if an arbitrator lowers or rescinds the suspension.
And Wideman avoids the whole thing by not intentionally hitting a ref.