The Armchair GM Thread - Part LXXXIX

[biturbo19]

What teams would those be? The one that paid essentially a 1st + Leipsic + Lindstrom to _bring_him_back_ after drafting him? Or, the one that had him on the top pair + top PP unit?

Franson makes sense as a target on a lot of levels. He's not an ideal fit, but his skillset is something they lack. He fits an age range for them, and allows them to move Bieksa. He checks off a lot of boxes, but not all of them... that's FA for you.

Yes. The Leafs team that had no interest in keeping him around at the price he was reportedly seeking originally, and the team that seems to harbour some apparent regret about adding him (and Santo), a pair of retread players for them who didn't work out at all...and neither of whom them seem interested in re-signing.

Franson is the sort of player bad teams overpay in FA because "he's available". But there's a reason players like him are always "available".

If he were to come cheap, then fine. But the reality is, he's going to cost as much as, or more than Bieksa...with term attached. Big pass on that for me. Franson just isn't a "big money" piece on a good team...which the Canucks are presumably endeavouring to be.

joel ward is an excellent 'overpay for a single year and trade at deadline' player if this team was serious about rebuilding

of course theyd probably rather sign him to a 5 year contract to get maximum value out of his useless old man years

Unfortunately for that notion, Joel Ward is also a 34 year old guy coming off a strong year who will be looking to cash in on what is sure to be his last "big contract", with plenty of suitors looking to add a gritty 20g "playoff performer" veteran. Not the profile of a guy looking to sign a short (single year ) deal, or a deal with a team looking to trade him at the deadline for their own organizational benefit.

 

[CAPTAIN CANUCK 71]

Should Vancouver target Kerby Rychel?

http://thecanuckway.com/2015/05/21/...mo&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics

I agree with this article... CBJ needs veteran help on D... Benning needs to make this happen move either Bieksa or Hamhuis... could even form part of a bigger deal between the 2 teams.

Here's some info on Rychel.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/kerby-rychel/

Aside from youth, we free up cap room. Both KB and DH's contracts are attractive to CBJ with 1 year left.

 

[82Ninety42011]

I want no part of Franson but would be happy with Petry and or Sekera. Adding those two and the prospects pics for Hamhuis and Bieksa would really expediate our rebuild.

 

[Addison Rae]

Franson is a very good analytic player, I'd target him on a short term contract. But I'd rather just pay the extra million or so on a guy like Mike Green.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yes. The Leafs team that had no interest in keeping him around at the price he was reportedly seeking originally, and the team that seems to harbour some apparent regret about adding him (and Santo), a pair of retread players for them who didn't work out at all...and neither of whom them seem interested in re-signing.

Franson is the sort of player bad teams overpay in FA because "he's available". But there's a reason players like him are always "available".

If he were to come cheap, then fine. But the reality is, he's going to cost as much as, or more than Bieksa...with term attached. Big pass on that for me. Franson just isn't a "big money" piece on a good team...which the Canucks are presumably endeavouring to be.

That's FA. Usually, the contracts are inflated in cost.

I'm not really interested in refuting the anecdotal evidence of "bad teams do X". I just wanted to re-iterate that a dearth of talent makes it to FA nowadays, and that this team needs to add to its defense. Franson checks off a lot of boxes in terms of what they could use. There's nothing more complicated at play here. Per HW, they see a fit.

The Leafs are in a full on rebuild, they weren't going to sign him. The 1st serves their purpose better. And I should hope NSH doesn't think he's a better right side solution than Weber or Jones... They weren't going to re-sign him. Weber was injured and they traded for insurance.

The two teams "tripping over themselves to be rid of him" thought enough of him to play him on a top pair, and get a 1st+ for him/give up a 1st+ for him. One of which drafted him... Neither team in a position to keep him... Yet, somehow this means teams are tripping over themselves to be rid of him? Amusing.

2 NHL teams and he's 27 years old. In contrast, Sbisa is 25 and is now on his 3rd team. Philly and Anaheim tripping too?

 

[MS]

joel ward is an excellent 'overpay for a single year and trade at deadline' player if this team was serious about rebuilding

of course theyd probably rather sign him to a 5 year contract to get maximum value out of his useless old man years

A pretty good rule to live by when it comes to free agency is that signing middling players to long-term deals that carry them past age 33-34 is almost always a bad idea. Pretty much the only players that perform at a high level past age 35 are former superstars.

Sometimes a role player can trick you by playing at a high level until age 33-34, but that dropoff is always inevitable. Ward is 34 and there wasn't checking-line type forward in the entire league last year over 35 who scored more than 30 points.

http://thecanuckway.com/2015/05/21/...mo&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics

I agree with this article... CBJ needs veteran help on D... Benning needs to make this happen move either Bieksa or Hamhuis... could even form part of a bigger deal between the 2 teams.

Here's some info on Rychel.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/kerby-rychel/

Aside from youth, we free up cap room. Both KB and DH's contracts are attractive to CBJ with 1 year left.

Had concussion problems. The fact that CBJ is looking to move him is probably not a good sign.

And we need defenders every bit as bad as they do.

I guess I wouldn't argue with a Bieksa-Rychel swap too much, but if he was the centerpiece of a Hamhuis trade I'd be seething.

 

[Hyzer]

A pretty good rule to live by when it comes to free agency is that signing middling players to long-term deals that carry them past age 33-34 is almost always a bad idea. Pretty much the only players that perform at a high level past age 35 are former superstars.

Sometimes a role player can trick you by playing at a high level until age 33-34, but that dropoff is always inevitable. Ward is 34 and there wasn't checking-line type forward in the entire league last year over 35 who scored more than 30 points.




Had concussion problems. The fact that CBJ is looking to move him is probably not a good sign.

And we need defenders every bit as bad as they do.

I guess I wouldn't argue with a Bieksa-Rychel swap too much, but if he was the centerpiece of a Hamhuis trade I'd be seething.

I know Rychel had a concussion this year, but isn't this his first major one? If so, not that bad in my opinion.

 

[Verviticus]

A pretty good rule to live by when it comes to free agency is that signing middling players to long-term deals that carry them past age 33-34 is almost always a bad idea. Pretty much the only players that perform at a high level past age 35 are former superstars.

Sometimes a role player can trick you by playing at a high level until age 33-34, but that dropoff is always inevitable. Ward is 34 and there wasn't checking-line type forward in the entire league last year over 35 who scored more than 30 points.

yeah absolutely. what i mean is - if we signed ward to a stupid thing with cap space that we should have, overpay by 1m for a 1y deal, we suddenly just signed a 2nd round pick for free. retain 50% at the deadline and suddenly a team with 1.5m in cap space can add a joel ward to their team

incoming lifer contract, though

 

[Bleach Clean]

Franson is a very good analytic player, I'd target him on a short term contract. But I'd rather just pay the extra million or so on a guy like Mike Green.

Analytics this year are mixed for him, have to dig deeper into his career to get a better read.

I think Green gets 7m+ while Franson would be at 5m~.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Franson definitely does not help our lack of speed on the back end though. However, if he's replacing Bieksa, then I'd still be all for it.

 

[Addison Rae]

Analytics this year are mixed for him, have to dig deeper into his career to get a better read.

I think Green gets 7m+ while Franson would be at 5m~.

He's always been a solid possession player, but his play in Nashville has been troubling. I wouldn't give him more than 4 on a 2 or 3 year deal. Highest I'd go on Green is 6.25 over 4 years, but it's moot right now because we don't have the cap space.

I like Verve's idea of signing depth players to 1 year deals and parlaying them at the deadline, for all the flack Nonis has gotten the fact that he was able to pick up a 2nd a 3rd and a good prospect for Santo and Winnik was shrewd management.

 

[biturbo19]

yeah absolutely. what i mean is - if we signed ward to a stupid thing with cap space that we should have, overpay by 1m for a 1y deal, we suddenly just signed a 2nd round pick for free. retain 50% at the deadline and suddenly a team with 1.5m in cap space can add a joel ward to their team

incoming lifer contract, though

Sure. Great plan for the Canucks.


By why on god's green earth would a 34 year old grinder about to cross that threshold into age-induced nothingness, with what is likely to be multiple suitors in FA...sign himself to a 1-year deal set up to trade him to whoever the Canucks want at the deadline? Just to be a pal and help out the Canucks?

 

[me2]

Yeah. No thanks at all on Franson.


There's a reason teams are tripping over themselves in a rush to let this guy go.

He's a decent enough PP option, and a poor overall option. Niche player, not a guy you give significant money/term to.

Franson would be a good replacement for Sbisa (different sides obviously), in that there is room for one of them. With both ofnthem you are forced to play Sbranson and that would be Sbieksa MKII, or you have two compromised pairing. I would much rather have put Sbisa's money towards Franson.

 

[Verviticus]

Sure. Great plan for the Canucks.


By why on god's green earth would a 34 year old grinder about to cross that threshold into age-induced nothingness, with what is likely to be multiple suitors in FA...sign himself to a 1-year deal set up to trade him to whoever the Canucks want at the deadline? Just to be a pal and help out the Canucks?

thats why you gotta overpay him for the individual year. promise him that you'll move him to an actual competitor and you take a lot of uncertainty out of his life

imagine someone signed with the bruins or the kings last year ala marian hossa. oops! but if he signs with us, we could have moved him to nashville or chicago or any number of competitive teams

its not the easiest thing to do but its not a one-sided deal. there are always gonna be maybe one or two dudes amenable to it, its managements job to figure out if they're reasonable bets for that

joel ward might not be the best example. hes actually on the edge of One More Contract territory. but a guy like whitney from a few years back, or riberio, jagr, etc... one of those guys.

 

[TheWanderer]

Franson is a very good analytic player, I'd target him on a short term contract. But I'd rather just pay the extra million or so on a guy like Mike Green.

Yeah, I really think Mike Green would fit well here.

 

[me2]

thats why you gotta overpay him for the individual year. promise him that you'll move him to an actual competitor and you take a lot of uncertainty out of his life

imagine someone signed with the bruins or the kings last year ala marian hossa. oops! but if he signs with us, we could have moved him to nashville or chicago or any number of competitive teams

its not the easiest thing to do but its not a one-sided deal. there are always gonna be maybe one or two dudes amenable to it, its managements job to figure out if they're reasonable bets for that

joel ward might not be the best example. hes actually on the edge of One More Contract territory. but a guy like whitney from a few years back, or riberio, jagr, etc... one of those guys.

Except we would not have traded him the same way we passed on a 2nd for Matthias or Higgins or a 3rd for Richo etc.

 

[biturbo19]

thats why you gotta overpay him for the individual year. promise him that you'll move him to an actual competitor and you take a lot of uncertainty out of his life

imagine someone signed with the bruins or the kings last year ala marian hossa. oops! but if he signs with us, we could have moved him to nashville or chicago or any number of competitive teams

its not the easiest thing to do but its not a one-sided deal. there are always gonna be maybe one or two dudes amenable to it, its managements job to figure out if they're reasonable bets for that

joel ward might not be the best example. hes actually on the edge of One More Contract territory. but a guy like whitney from a few years back, or riberio, jagr, etc... one of those guys.

How much do you overpay a guy like Joel Ward on a 1-year deal, to give him anything resembling the "certainty" of a 3-year deal at typical sought after "UFA Money"? You gonna pay him 3 years worth of "normal overpaid UFA" salary in one single year? Even retaining the 50% max, if you've gotta hand him 3x the money, it's still going to be be "overpaid" as far as fitting him in to a cap-crunch contender at the deadline. 50% retained on Ward at 3x a "fair salary" is still more than "fair salary", that a contender could just sign Ward to in the first place (and a destination that he chooses).

Not to mention all the hassles involved for a player on a personal level...in moving potentially WAS>VAN>Contender@Deadline>Somewhere else next summer as a UFA again. That's 3 moves in 1 year. That sucks, that isn't desirable for most players. It happens to guys who can't afford to be choosy...not sought after guys like Ward is likely to be.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

You don't sign Joel Ward so that you can trade him immediately. You sign him so that you can trade a guy like Hansen for a pick and replace him in the lineup with Ward. If you can recoup a pick and don't see it as a downgrade, you look at it depending on salary.

The Canucks already have 5-6 RW'ers going into next season without Ward - Vrbata, Burrows, Kassian, Hansen, Dorsett and Vey. Throw Virtanen's name into the mix if they prefer him on the right side too. RW is the deepest position on the team - if they look at Ward, it makes you wonder what they're thinking on Vrbata, Burrows, Hansen and Kassian...

Don't think they make much of a push for him. He's older than the guys Benning is targeting and the need just isn't there.

 

[canuckking1]

trade high on vrbata hamhuis and lack. If they really want to fill the cup board I would trade high on alex edler he 29 and don't see the canucks winning any cups for the next 5 years

 

[Bleach Clean]

The interest is from Joel Ward himself, not the team being interested in him:

@News1130Sports: Sources tell me that Vancouver would be on a list of teams that would interest Joel Ward when he hits market. #Canucks

So, of interest to him. His list of teams. Or at least, that's how it reads to me.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

The interest is from Joel Ward himself, not the team being interested in him:



So, of interest to him. His list of teams. Or at least, that's how it reads to me.

There's just no room for Ward, unless the Canucks trade 2 right wingers. I could see the team having some interest in him playing with Horvat and Kenins to make the 3rd line harder to play against, but where does that leave Hansen, Burrows and Kassian?

I think they will look to plug in youth up front, foregoing the free agent market. There is a ton of depth at wing.

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

There's just no room for Ward, unless the Canucks trade 2 right wingers. I could see the team having some interest in him playing with Horvat and Kenins to make the 3rd line harder to play against, but where does that leave Hansen, Burrows and Kassian?

I think they will look to plug in youth up front, foregoing the free agent market. There is a ton of depth at wing.

I don't know but I think the team is getting close to a meltdown. When I see no Vrbata, Hansen, or Higgins it gets ugly looking. I don't trust anyone with Bonino unless they are experienced. Maybe I think what the team needs to do is remove one vet a year.

So maybe Vrbata can be moved for WSH 1st. Virtanen will come in as a replacement on the 4th and Kassian will play 2RW. Also I would probably try and move one of Hamhuis, Bieksa or Weber off the roster. We have to draft a defenseman this year. Have to start getting Clendening and Stanton back in. Sbisa should be moved next year.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Baertschi - Horvat - Kassian
Higgins - Bonino - Virtanen
Dorsett - Richardson - Hansen

I really want to see a change/twist to the roster this season again. I don't want to see too much of last years. Maybe get in McCann, Gaunce or Cassels if they are ready as well. Shinkaruk might be ready too. It will be a competitive pre-season that is for sure.

 

[Nuckles]

Apparently Rutherford said that the Pens need another top 6 winger or two. Seeing as how Pens fans have lost all hope in him because of the Despres trade, here's to hoping we can grab Pouliot for Vrbata.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Apparently Rutherford said that the Pens need another top 6 winger or two. Seeing as how Pens fans have lost all hope in him because of the Despres trade, here's to hoping we can grab Pouliot for Vrbata.

This is going from memory only, but I recall JR having interest in Higgins. Could be a fit there. Edit: Beau Bennett has fallen out of favour there. It might be possible to get him for a more established winger.

Pouliot would be nice. There's also Bowey for Vrbata...

 

[Cogburn]

Based on news from the trade threads...

Washington's first (22nd overall) for Vrbata.

Higgins to Montreal for their 2016 2nd.

Miller to Edmonton for Montreal's 2nd and Edmonton's 3rd this year.

We clear 13.5 million in cap space for picks. Frolik, Williams, Beauchemin, Ward, Ehrhoff, Belesky, Martin, Vermette, St Louis, Soderberg, Franson, Green, Erat, Fleishmann, Gonchar, Fisher, Cole, Jackman, Brewer, Ryder or Ribero are all still free agents.