The All Purpose Pens Off Day Thread - Injuries, Practice, Lines, etc (Geno, the true American Hero)

[EightyOne]

At this pace... i'd think about trading Sid and making him 1C. Really take over the youth movement.

I mean...they've looked okay without Malkin

 

[66-30-33]

Bring back the Malkin to Florida rumors, we clearly don't need him anymore.

 

[wej20]

Bjugstad would be the forward I'd move. He just doesn't bring enough to the table for his caphit. Run Teddy, Lafferty, ZAR, Tanev and Rust when he's healthy as your PK forwards.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust/Simon
Galchenyuk-Malkin-Tanev
Simon/Rust -McCann- Hornqvist
ZAR - Teddy - Lafferty
A.Johnson/Kahun

To be honest apart from Jake with Sid and Galchenyuk with Geno the rest of the wingers will probably rotate depending who is clicking at the time.

 

[NMK11]

I have no idea why we would get rid of him. Bjugstad is likely the easier asset to move.

And their have been multiple instances where Simon hasn’t been able to make plays on the top line due to playing his off side.

I'm not so sure Bjugstad would be easier to move than Rust. With Rust's playoff history and smaller contract I think he'd be the more in demand piece. But that doesn't mean Bjugstad would be tough to move. Plenty of teams could use a 3C/RW upgrade, and as much as he's not been our ideal guy, he's still better than what lot of teams have. Knowing that we need to move salary and have people to fill his spot might lessen his price, but if it's really just about moving him there's no way we wouldn't get at least a mid-pick for him. Semantics point to make, I know, but just throwing it out there.

There is no need to trade Rust, you move Bjugstad and Kahun if you want to thin out the forward groups. Beyond this year, I don't really have that many reservations with this forward lineup:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Galchenyuk-Malkin-Tanev
Simon-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Lafferty

Unless Murray gets a huge extension or you can't trade either Johnson or Gudbranson, I think this forward group is doable. You also have Johnson, Bjorkqvist and Angello as legit depth forward options, too.

Not sure why people are trying to trade Kahun after just a few games. Can we give a 24 yo on his entry level contract in his second NHL season who was much better last year on a much worse team at least half the season before we decide he needs to be moved?

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not so sure Bjugstad would be easier to move than Rust. With Rust's playoff history and smaller contract I think he'd be the more in demand piece. But that doesn't mean Bjugstad would be tough to move. Plenty of teams could use a 3C/RW upgrade, and as much as he's not been our ideal guy, he's still better than what lot of teams have. Knowing that we need to move salary and have people to fill his spot might lessen his price, but if it's really just about moving him there's no way we wouldn't get at least a mid-pick for him. Semantics point to make, I know, but just throwing it out there.



Not sure why people are trying to trade Kahun after just a few games. Can we give a 24 yo on his entry level contract in his second NHL season who was much better last year on a much worse team at least half the season before we decide he needs to be moved?

I’d usually say take the patient approach, but Kahun has been that bad.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not sure why people are trying to trade Kahun after just a few games. Can we give a 24 yo on his entry level contract in his second NHL season who was much better last year on a much worse team at least half the season before we decide he needs to be moved?

I'm talking about next year, not about right now. Before next year, the Penguins are going to have to trade both Gudbranson and Johnson and likely 2 of Bjugstad, Rust, Kahun, McCann and Simon. I'm not saying they should move him now, I'm saying they're going to have to move him baring something unusual. And with the wing depth they have, they probably shouldn't plan on keeping him long-term.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That’s how my daughter got her start as well.

But I pretty much went out and replaced all her gear she got from the program before the season started because it was all low end gear obviously.

It’s a great program though and I donated that gear to another program so it’s being pay fwd even if it never got used by my daughter.

 

[EightyOne]

I hope they stick with the sport.

It's an intimidating sport to crack for many women.

I've always had a good time on co-ed teams as an adult. But I've had a lot of trouble encouraging women who are interested in hockey to begin hockey.

 

[66-30-33]

I hope they stick with the sport.

It's an intimidating sport to crack for many women.

I've always had a good time on co-ed teams as an adult. But I've had a lot of trouble encouraging women who are interested in hockey to begin hockey.

You a woman yourself? (I seriously don't know who the females are here besides Clair, I assume everyone is male).

 

[EightyOne]

You a woman yourself? (I seriously don't know who the females are here besides Clair, I assume everyone is male).

No.

But I always want as many people as possible to discover this awesome game!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I hope they stick with the sport.

It's an intimidating sport to crack for many women.

I've always had a good time on co-ed teams as an adult. But I've had a lot of trouble encouraging women who are interested in hockey to begin hockey.

It’s hard on me when my daughter tells me she’s going to play in the NHL one day, just like she did tonight and declared she will then “buy the muscle car I always wanted”.

I don’t tell her she can’t, I just bring up Wickenheiser and try to shift her goals to the Olympics... and explain how only the best of the best play in the NHL.

She then says well that’s her and I’m like “ya... but those Olympics are sooo cool doll, would be so much fun or maybe college hockey or...”

Just a bummy situation at times.

 

[EightyOne]

Who knows what options might open up over next 10 years.

At least she has goals. You've done that right.

 

[JackFr]

Since I know a lot of people on here aren't big on analytics (and probably many are vaguely curious but not exactly regularly checking sites), thought I'd give a bit of a summary of what's going on with our underlying numbers:

Good:

• Sidney Crosby, Jake Guentzel, and Dominik Simon are continuing the sterling record that they accumulated last season as a trio, and each of them are above 57% Corsi and 52% xGF. The combo is working beautifully, as many of us predicted.
• Letang and Dumoulin are absolutely controlling possession, with dominant numbers on that front. While a chunk of that could likely be attributed to their significant time with the dominant top line, clearly despite the occasional brain farts we're still blessed with a hell of a top pair.
• Zach Aston-Reese is... uh... absolutely killing it from both a possession and scoring threat perspective with a sensational 63% xGF and almost 60% Corsi, especially impressive considering that he has had no ice time with our top units. Until the last game his PDO was a ridiculously unlucky 86% - after scoring two goals the other night it's back where it should be. ZAR's been a huge whipping boy, but like Simon there appears to be a little more going on under the hood than meets the eye.

Okay:

• Justin Schultz and Marcus Pettersson are clicking along just fine at around the 50% mark in both Corsi and xGF%. If they continue to play together and away from our anchors those numbers will likely increase.
• The AHL boys (Blandisi, Lafferty, and Adam Johnson) are doing just fine, a few ticks below even but impressive enough all things considered.
• Matt Murray has had an up and down season, and sits at a -2.73 GSAA. Not great, but brought down by a few bad games. In Jarry's first game of the season he performed as well as an average NHL goalie would be expected to.

Bad:

• As expected, Gudbranson and Johnson have been quite miserable, both well below even in both categories.
• McCann, Hornqvist, and Galchenyuk have struggled, with all three well below even as well. Hornqvist - who had an unproductive season last year despite brilliant underlying numbers - appears to be having the opposite happen, which the Penguins will happily take.

Ugly

• John Marino - who has really impressed all of us - has been analytically horrendous. His CF% (33%) is 5th worst in the NHL, and his relative CF% is the worst in the league. In a small sample where he's been forced to play with Gudbranson and Johnson there may be too much noise to get a read on him, but this will be one to watch.
• Dominik Kahun has looked a bit lost out there and the numbers back it up. A 40% Corsi and 30% xGF% is absolutely awful. He's got to figure things out quick considering our depth at the forward position.

 

[66-30-33]

I don't care about that stuff, I take the eye ball test and he does good or does Johnson (bad).

 

[Gurglesons]

Since I know a lot of people on here aren't big on analytics (and probably many are vaguely curious but not exactly regularly checking sites), thought I'd give a bit of a summary of what's going on with our underlying numbers:

Good:

• Sidney Crosby, Jake Guentzel, and Dominik Simon are continuing the sterling record that they accumulated last season as a trio, and each of them are above 57% Corsi and 52% xGF. The combo is working beautifully, as many of us predicted.
• Letang and Dumoulin are absolutely controlling possession, with dominant numbers on that front. While a chunk of that could likely be attributed to their significant time with the dominant top line, clearly despite the occasional brain farts we're still blessed with a hell of a top pair.
• Zach Aston-Reese is... uh... absolutely killing it from both a possession and scoring threat perspective with a sensational 63% xGF and almost 60% Corsi, especially impressive considering that he has had no ice time with our top units. Until the last game his PDO was a ridiculously unlucky 86% - after scoring two goals the other night it's back where it should be. ZAR's been a huge whipping boy, but like Simon there appears to be a little more going on under the hood than meets the eye.

Okay:

• Justin Schultz and Marcus Pettersson are clicking along just fine at around the 50% mark in both Corsi and xGF%. If they continue to play together and away from our anchors those numbers will likely increase.
• The AHL boys (Blandisi, Lafferty, and Adam Johnson) are doing just fine, a few ticks below even but impressive enough all things considered.
• Matt Murray has had an up and down season, and sits at a -2.73 GSAA. Not great, but brought down by a few bad games. In Jarry's first game of the season he performed as well as an average NHL goalie would be expected to.

Bad:

• As expected, Gudbranson and Johnson have been quite miserable, both well below even in both categories.
• McCann, Hornqvist, and Galchenyuk have struggled, with all three well below even as well. Hornqvist - who had an unproductive season last year despite brilliant underlying numbers - appears to be having the opposite happen, which the Penguins will happily take.

Ugly

• John Marino - who has really impressed all of us - has been analytically horrendous. His CF% (33%) is 5th worst in the NHL, and his relative CF% is the worst in the league. In a small sample where he's been forced to play with Gudbranson and Johnson there may be too much noise to get a read on him, but this will be one to watch.
• Dominik Kahun has looked a bit lost out there and the numbers back it up. A 40% Corsi and 30% xGF% is absolutely awful. He's got to figure things out quick considering our depth at the forward position.

Pretty much matches up.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Pretty much matches up.

Not Marino. He looks noticeably good out there.

 

[pokey10]

Well, look who Marino is paired with.

 

[JackFr]

Not Marino. He looks noticeably good out there.

Agreed, he's been doing a lot of things well (gap control, puck battles) but fact of the matter is his pairings been overall not controlling the flow of play well at all.

I'd like to see him get a chance with someone who isn't JJ or Gud to get a sense for if he's been weighed down.

 

[JackFr]

The other one that stands out compared to how he's been described on here is ZAR (who I personally think has been fine but many want as far from this team as possible).

Honestly,I think this board tends to oberfocus their ire on players who a.) Don't have a very noticeable skill and b.) Don't score goals. Posters really like guys who look fast or hard on the forecheck or have killer shots. That's why your McCanns and Tanevs will get huge props - we see McCann score goals and Tanev skate quick. Guys like Simon and Bjug and ZAR are tagged as "vanilla" because they don't have that notable attribute.

Driving play is a such a macrolevel thing and it's obviously something your brain can't count from the eye test (Tanev hits? Yes. Scoring chances when Simon is with Crosby compared to Rust? No). As a result guys like 66-30-33 who trust the infallibility of their eyeballs are going to single out those players because they're not "doing anything" - even though even that is often not the case and the thing they're doing is keeping possession alive in the other teams end.

 

[Turin]

Then you stick Rust on the 4th line and let him earn his way up.

Maybe, Tanev really is what makes that Bleuger line go though.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Lmao we get a crack at the last perfect team. I love it.

 

[Peat]

The other one that stands out compared to how he's been described on here is ZAR (who I personally think has been fine but many want as far from this team as possible).

Honestly,I think this board tends to oberfocus their ire on players who a.) Don't have a very noticeable skill and b.) Don't score goals. Posters really like guys who look fast or hard on the forecheck or have killer shots. That's why your McCanns and Tanevs will get huge props - we see McCann score goals and Tanev skate quick. Guys like Simon and Bjug and ZAR are tagged as "vanilla" because they don't have that notable attribute.

Driving play is a such a macrolevel thing and it's obviously something your brain can't count from the eye test (Tanev hits? Yes. Scoring chances when Simon is with Crosby compared to Rust? No). As a result guys like 66-30-33 who trust the infallibility of their eyeballs are going to single out those players because they're not "doing anything" - even though even that is often not the case and the thing they're doing is keeping possession alive in the other teams end.

But Bjugstad scored goals at the same rate as McCann as a Penguin last year and ZAR wasn't far behind. And I don't know if this is a criticism of your theory or a criticism of the way some people here don't notice things like that.

I think there's a huge variety of factors that goes into criticism of players like ZAR. A large part of it comes from the protectiveness people feel over the team's style of play and identity (and a fair chunk of that is legit). I think all guys who are sold as physical/could be but who aren't that much get a lot of criticism. And frankly I think some people let rosy memories of 15/16 and nights when other teams' depth goes nuts on lazy efforts to fool them into what the standard for guys like ZAR looks like.

edit: And how easy it is to find cheap depth. We've been good/fortunate and look set to continue to be but there's plenty of teams that can't do it.

 

[Tender Rip]

JackFr, thanks for that. Where do you get your stats btw?

 

[2wayPlay]

Any update on Jack Johnson?

On a serious note I know they were giving Malkin a 6-10 week window so best case Halloween and worst case Thanksgiving basically but do we have any idea about the three other guys? Bjugs Rusty and Gally?

thanks