Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread

[pistolpete11]

I’m right there with everyone saying to give Archie a shot over Kuhn. I don’t dislike Kuhn, but that 4th line and the PK are not working. Can’t blame all of that on Kuhn alone, but Archie provides something different so shake things up.

However, I’m surprised by how much of a pass Hagelin is getting by the majority of posters. He has the same amount of points as Kuhn despite getting better zone starts, more TOI, and with much, much, much more talented players than Kuhn. And he counts $4M against the cap. I know not everything Hagelin does shows up on the scoresheet, but I just find it strange people are clamoring for Kuhn to be benched but OK with Hagelin playing with Malkin and Kessel.

 

[Shady Machine]

At this point, it's on the players. Shouldn't matter what the line combos are (at least in the top nine), there's enough fire power that they should be torching the league. Instead, they're lucky to score more than 2 goals.

Some minor stuff I blame Sully for -- Kuhnhackl playing, Letang on the top PP unit -- but ultimately it's on the players to get **** done.

"torching the league". I think you have a higher view of this roster than I do.

 

[Shady Machine]

I’m right there with everyone saying to give Archie a shot over Kuhn. I don’t dislike Kuhn, but that 4th line and the PK are not working. Can’t blame all of that on Kuhn alone, but Archie provides something different so shake things up.

However, I’m surprised by how much of a pass Hagelin is getting by the majority of posters. He has the same amount of points as Kuhn despite getting better zone starts, more TOI, and with much, much, much more talented players than Kuhn. And he counts $4M against the cap. I know not everything Hagelin does shows up on the scoresheet, but I just find it strange people are clamoring for Kuhn to be benched but OK with Hagelin playing with Malkin and Kessel.

Hagelin deserves more ire, but what are you going to do with him? He's still one of the team's top 12 forwards.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I’m right there with everyone saying to give Archie a shot over Kuhn. I don’t dislike Kuhn, but that 4th line and the PK are not working. Can’t blame all of that on Kuhn alone, but Archie provides something different so shake things up.

However, I’m surprised by how much of a pass Hagelin is getting by the majority of posters. He has the same amount of points as Kuhn despite getting better zone starts, more TOI, and with much, much, much more talented players than Kuhn. And he counts $4M against the cap. I know not everything Hagelin does shows up on the scoresheet, but I just find it strange people are clamoring for Kuhn to be benched but OK with Hagelin playing with Malkin and Kessel.

I'm not absolving Hags by any stretch because you should be osmosis alone be getting SOME points while getting prime ice with 2 generational players. But I do think the things that Hags does doesn't wind up on the scoresheet. His speed causes issues on the forecheck for teams, he's a good puck retriever, solid backchecker/PKer and plays well along the boards. Most importantly and something I've stated a number of times before I think he really fits and reads Kessel. Seems like he has a great sense of what Kessel DOESN"T do so he fills in that game. For whatever strange reason their games just mesh

Think of Hags in a similar way that you do Horny- he doesn't always wind up on the scoresheet, but he does the things that help you win hockey games.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I love that it still irkes you today. That shows you understand x's and o's and the game. I get the same way (in a healthy and fun way).

I just can't fathom how he took a man to the dot in that situation...

I'm sure when Sullivan broke down the film he was shaking his head and that's probably why he looks to be sitting.

 

[Gurglesons]

"torching the league". I think you have a higher view of this roster than I do.

I think you have to realize a lot of people judged our wings on their pace rather than their actual production. Jake was a 60+ guy. Sheary was a 50+ guy. Rust was a 40+ guy. Etc.

I don’t think we should be surprised by how this roster is producing 70ish is a lot to take out at the pivot and expect players like Mckegg, Rowney and Sheahan to replace.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I think you have to realize a lot of people judged our wings on their pace rather than their actual production. Jake was a 60+ guy. Sheary was a 50+ guy. Rust was a 40+ guy. Etc.

I don’t think we should be surprised by how this roster is producing 70ish is a lot to take out at the pivot and expect players like Mckegg, Rowney and Sheahan to replace.

Right, there is no driving force on the bottom two lines.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think you have to realize a lot of people judged our wings on their pace rather than their actual production. Jake was a 60+ guy. Sheary was a 50+ guy. Rust was a 40+ guy. Etc.

I don’t think we should be surprised by how this roster is producing 70ish is a lot to take out at the pivot and expect players like Mckegg, Rowney and Sheahan to replace.

Agreed. There was an overrating of our wingers and an underrating of our centers. I think many assumed Jake would just keep his pace plus some, without realizing that nearly every young player has growing pains early in their NHL career. We need more out of Jake, but chalking him up to 60+ player this year was probably unfair to him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right, there is no driving force on the bottom two lines.

I mean, we can configure it to put Sheary and Horny there. But, I really hate having to put our second and third best wings with our 3C.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I mean, we can configure it to put Sheary and Horny there. But, I really hate having to put our second and third best wings with our 3C.

Personally, I'd just put the three big boys on their own lines.

1. Sid ++
2. Geno ++
3. Phil ++

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

"torching the league". I think you have a higher view of this roster than I do.

-This team has 7 guys (Malkin, Crosby, Kessel, Sheary, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Rust) that scored, or were on pace to score, 20+ goals last year. Not many teams can match that sort of depth up front.

-This team has two guys who are legitimate 90+ point threats, plus another guy who has proven he can be a point per game guy (Kessel). Again, not many teams can boast that.

-This team has 8 guys (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Sheary, Hornqvist, Guentzel up front; Letang and Schultz on defense) who scored, or were on pace for, 50+ points last year. Rust was on pace around 40.

Even with the lack of production from some of the bottom line guys, there should be more than enough offense to be a top-5 team offensively. Yet, the Pens currently sit 25th out of 31 teams in GF/GP, 17th in GF, and 29th in 5 on 5 GF.

 

[ncm7772]

I’m right there with everyone saying to give Archie a shot over Kuhn. I don’t dislike Kuhn, but that 4th line and the PK are not working. Can’t blame all of that on Kuhn alone, but Archie provides something different so shake things up.

However, I’m surprised by how much of a pass Hagelin is getting by the majority of posters. He has the same amount of points as Kuhn despite getting better zone starts, more TOI, and with much, much, much more talented players than Kuhn. And he counts $4M against the cap. I know not everything Hagelin does shows up on the scoresheet, but I just find it strange people are clamoring for Kuhn to be benched but OK with Hagelin playing with Malkin and Kessel.

Not me. I think Hagelin has been terrible. Without a doubt one of the teams' worst forward.

 

[EightyOne]

See, I feel like people have been complaining about line combos most of the season

I think we're all misguided. The source of the complaints are probably the NAMES on the lines rather than the line combos themselves. Eh?

 

[Peat]

I mean, we can configure it to put Sheary and Horny there. But, I really hate having to put our second and third best wings with our 3C.

But where else do you put them? I know a lot of us like Sid & Horny, but that's not been working great this season. As in, Horny has 6 ES points this season, and none of them have been on a regular line with Sid. Half of them have been with Sheahan. Sid has 2 ES points with Horny on the ice.

Crosby and Sheary work great when Sheary's on and they're with Guentzel, but its been leaking goals.

I guess we'll see how it looks this time, but right now it looks like Sheahan-Hornqvist should be a thing because that's the best use of Hornqvist. Production wise, he's only close to being our 2nd/3rd best winger when with Sheahan. Ideally they need a speedy creative winger to balance things and Sheary goes great with Hornqvist, so he should be there unless he's tearing up things with Crosby.

I guess it sucks that our remaining wingers aren't really getting it done in the top 6, but then neither was Hornqvist. At least he's somewhere where he is getting it done when with 3C.

 

[pistolpete11]

Hagelin deserves more ire, but what are you going to do with him? He's still one of the team's top 12 forwards.

I'm just making an observation. The complaints about Kuhn, Sheahan, etc. seem to heavily outweigh the complaints about Hagelin and I don't really understand why.

Maybe not mid-season, but I'd eventually like to see him traded. I'd rather use that money to resign Horny.

I'm not absolving Hags by any stretch because you should be osmosis alone be getting SOME points while getting prime ice with 2 generational players. But I do think the things that Hags does doesn't wind up on the scoresheet. His speed causes issues on the forecheck for teams, he's a good puck retriever, solid backchecker/PKer and plays well along the boards. Most importantly and something I've stated a number of times before I think he really fits and reads Kessel. Seems like he has a great sense of what Kessel DOESN"T do so he fills in that game. For whatever strange reason their games just mesh

Think of Hags in a similar way that you do Horny- he doesn't always wind up on the scoresheet, but he does the things that help you win hockey games.

Yes, but Horny still scores at a 20G 50P pace while 'not showing up on the scoresheet'. Hagelin over the last 2 years is on a 7G 25P pace.

Honest question, do the numbers show that Kessel is better with Hagelin on his line (outside of the HBK run)? Or could that be Rust? Or Guentzel? Or Sheary? Or Scott Wilson when he was here?

 

[canadianguy77]

I'm just making an observation. The complaints about Kuhn, Sheahan, etc. seem to heavily outweigh the complaints about Hagelin and I don't really understand why.

Maybe not mid-season, but I'd eventually like to see him traded. I'd rather use that money to resign Horny.

What team do you think would trade for him though? At this point we'd probably have to take another bad contract back in order to get rid of him. So it ends up sort of being a "better the devil you know," kind of situation.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Hagelin is dependent on Kessel to put up points, not that Hagelin and Kessel is a great duo. Hagelin should be on the 4th line when everyone is healthy and ideally would be traded if the opportunity arose, ideally in another struggling forward for struggling forward trade. Swapping Hagelin for a more expensive struggling bottom-6 center might not be a terrible idea, to be honest. I can think of 3 centers who fit that immediately in Stajan, Plekanec and Kruger.

 

[pistolpete11]

What team do you think would trade for him though? At this point we'd probably have to take another bad contract back in order to get rid of him. So it ends up sort of being a "better the devil you know," kind of situation.

If that guy is a UFA at year's end (the reverse of how we got Hagelin in the first place), I'd consider it.

 

[cheesedanish87]

This is concerning, i don't think they would move Jake to center in practice if Geno was just having a maintenance day.

 

[deakka]

This is concerning, i don't think they would move Jake to center in practice if Geno was just having a maintenance day.

Was just gonna say this .

If they knew he could play, they should just plug Rowney in for today in malkins spot. No need to shuffle all the lines.

 

[canadianguy77]

This is concerning, i don't think they would move Jake to center in practice if Geno was just having a maintenance day.

Was it last game where he took a wack on his wrists/hand?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Knowing the Pens they’re going to pass some illness around for awhile before finding out they've been treating the wrong thing.

 

[NMK11]

Man, that bottom 6 sucks. This highlights the need for depth, we're one injury away from this long term.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Malkin is out, there is flat out no justification to not recalling Sprong. Absolutely none.

 

[NMK11]

In other news, I've been really happy with our defensive depth. Ruh and Corrado are both able fill in for the bottom pairing. If Bengtsson ever gets a chance and shows he has it, I think we're sitting pretty