Prospect Info: The all-encompassing Sam Morin thread [began in 2017]

[Curufinwe]

Yep, We saw that with Gudas, it's easy to get a "reputation" with the refs, and hard to get rid of it - Morin will be an obvious magnet, just because his clean hits will look dirty against smaller players, and as a rookie, he's going to get challenged by goons wanting to take the big man down.

I've seen that happen a few times in the AHL.

 

[pinedak]

He was very solid last night +25.67 CorsiRelTM shows he can be an effective and likely effortless puck mover against bottom line forwards even aside from Ghost having a great game. Obviously he still needs work. The reads, positioning, puck stuff will come with time as his brain catches up to NHL speed. Overall a fine performance for a first game. His true skills will be looked at by offensive zone breakups, killing the cycle, breakout efficiency, and the PK. If you get more than that great. If not, fine. Charlie O' Conner thinks a Coburn, Gudas fusion would be great and I don't disagree.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

There's a lot to like about having Morin on the team. His personality and enthusiasm seem infectious; his size is an asset; he should eventually be great on the PK.

But Morin really scares me with the puck on his stick. He does not see the ice well at all, and he has hard hands when it comes to puckhandling and passing. This is where playing with Ghost is a huge help.

Did it stand out to anyone else that when they showed a close-up replay of Morin with the puck last night how often he kept peeking down at the puck? Man. It would be like seeing a guard in the NBA constantly looking down at the ball as he dribbled. Not something you tend to see with those who make it to the highest level.

I noticed the same thing but he doesn't hold the puck for too long so it shouldn't be that big of an issue. At least I don't hope. Obviously his huge size and reach play a role in him doing that.

I liked his game last night. He should start the year in the NHL IMO.

 

[achdumeingute]

Not sure why you say he doesn't see the ice well. He made some very nice passes last night. A few were mishandled....like the Giroux one, but that is on G. He passes the puck hard....which I don't think our forwards were expecting as they fumbled his passes a few times.

As for him peeking down...I think your example is off. It's not a guard looking down....it's Shaq/Howard. And plenty of times they do it when handling the ball.

In the end, he is a rookie, in his 1st game, where he was nervous, and where he noticed the speed difference. So "feeling" that speed difference, of course you will rush at times or make mistakes on reads. All part of the learning curve.

The best part about him is his attitude. And him KNOWING there is a speed difference, he will work on things this summer to help that.

agree. Speed of the game is real. It takes time to adjust.

We saw that in the first where he had decent position and just got smoked to the outside because he wasn't ready to deal with NHL quickness. In time hopefully he learns the minute correction to make to cut the angle down.

 

[deadhead]

We got lucky that Ghost and Provorov were great from the start.
Hopefully Morin's more normal development won't cause too many impatient tears around here. (it will)

Actually Ghost is a good object lesson on player development.

Provorov is a freak of nature, he still makes rookie mistakes, but in general his play is more like a 10 year veteran. Even someone like Kimmo didn't reach this level of play until 23-24 years old.

Ghost is more normal, 23 year old rookie flashed, then struggled the next year, partially due to injury, partially because his defensive game is undeveloped (college, no real AHL experience), partially b/c he's still adjusting to NHL speed in terms of what he can get away with and when he should play it safe.

Morin can improve his skating agility, a better feel for the puck and better judgement of the speed of the game. But jeez, he's only 21 (just 8 months older than Sanheim), he probably won't hit his peak for another 3-4 years. He's so big that it may take him longer just to develop pro level body control.

Sanheim will probably have similar issues that have plagued Ghost in terms of knowing when to use his great offensive skills and when he has to play it safe. A year in the AHL puts him a couple years ahead of Ghost in terms of experience at the same age. He'll also need to fill out to handle NHL strength, but he's 21 and just now finishing growing, so in 2-3 years he'll probably be 6'4 215 lbs and a load to handle.

Myers is the baby at 20, up to 6'5 207, and probably will fill out to 220 lbs or so in the next few years. He probably needs a year in the AHL, but some commentators think he's already NHL ready - but there will be growing pains.

Hagg is the old man at 22, he's listed at 6'2 204, but I'll be he's probably north of 210 lbs at this point. Three years of AHL experience and he's the "worst" of the D-man prospects.

The thing is they're all so physically gifted that by their second season they should be clearly superior to the JAGs we're putting on the ice right now, but may not peak until around the 2020-21 season.

 

[Alchemy]

I noticed the same thing but he doesn't hold the puck for too long so it shouldn't be that big of an issue. At least I don't hope. Obviously his huge size and reach play a role in him doing that.

I liked his game last night. He should start the year in the NHL IMO.

He just has to adjust to the speed of the NHL. I watched the game and i seen him make some decent first passes. He's even confident enough to try the stretch pass. Offense will never be his biggest asset. He first perfectly with what we need on defense which has me excited. We already have our offensively gifted d-man. We need Morin and Gudas. I expect alot of pain for NHL forwards years to come.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Hope to see Gudas/Provy Ghost/Morin pairings next year.

I assume whatever other Rook makes it through will be paired with MacDonald. It's Hakstols hazing ritual

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Very intriguing player moving forward. His stickhandling and decision making with the puck are my concerns, but his athleticism and size allow for him to be an effective defender.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Sent back down to the Phantoms (who play tonight) against Hershey, along with McDonald.

 

[Chuck Downie]

Is he returning to the Phantoms for their game today?

Here`s the answer

 

[Hiesenberg]

If Phantoms win it puts their magic number at 1. It's a super important game.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Here`s the answer

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

I wouldn't say it means much since the Flyers don't play until Saturday.

 

[deadhead]

Advantage of having the farm team less than 2 hours away instead of in the middle of nowhere.

 

[BernieParent]

Morin's post-game interview was one of the few I enjoyed. He was very attentive and conversational in his responses, rather than just the basic clichés. I chuckled when he included, in response to a question about the differences in the NHL game, that the Devils were calling for the puck and he had to make sure to look so he didn't pass it to them. I thought every league had guys who did that. Heck, they do that in my ball-hockey league.

It was also good to hear that he has been told at both the NHL and AHL level that he doesn't have to fight.

I'm glad Sam got his first game done and has that taste for the big league. Now he just has to go out and make himself undemotable next season.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Morin will have a long developmental curve. But, eventually he will be a monster.

yup. bigger defenseman usually take longer to develop. there will plenty of times where he will make mistakes against better teams with better offensive minded players. the bumps in the road will probably be longer than some other rookie defenseman, but the reward at the end has the potential to be great.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Actually Ghost is a good object lesson on player development.

Provorov is a freak of nature, he still makes rookie mistakes, but in general his play is more like a 10 year veteran. Even someone like Kimmo didn't reach this level of play until 23-24 years old.

Ghost is more normal, 23 year old rookie flashed, then struggled the next year, partially due to injury, partially because his defensive game is undeveloped (college, no real AHL experience), partially b/c he's still adjusting to NHL speed in terms of what he can get away with and when he should play it safe.

Morin can improve his skating agility, a better feel for the puck and better judgement of the speed of the game. But jeez, he's only 21 (just 8 months older than Sanheim), he probably won't hit his peak for another 3-4 years. He's so big that it may take him longer just to develop pro level body control.

Sanheim will probably have similar issues that have plagued Ghost in terms of knowing when to use his great offensive skills and when he has to play it safe. A year in the AHL puts him a couple years ahead of Ghost in terms of experience at the same age. He'll also need to fill out to handle NHL strength, but he's 21 and just now finishing growing, so in 2-3 years he'll probably be 6'4 215 lbs and a load to handle.

Myers is the baby at 20, up to 6'5 207, and probably will fill out to 220 lbs or so in the next few years. He probably needs a year in the AHL, but some commentators think he's already NHL ready - but there will be growing pains.

Hagg is the old man at 22, he's listed at 6'2 204, but I'll be he's probably north of 210 lbs at this point. Three years of AHL experience and he's the "worst" of the D-man prospects.

The thing is they're all so physically gifted that by their second season they should be clearly superior to the JAGs we're putting on the ice right now, but may not peak until around the 2020-21 season.

Nice write up. You just look at this group and dream what the future may look like. If these young men pan out they could be our best(collectively) in the history of the Flyers. I still remember with envy the Habs group in the late 70's and what they did for that team.

 

[Curufinwe]

Advantage of having the farm team less than 2 hours away instead of in the middle of nowhere.

It helps, but Tampa seem to send their AHL guys up and down all the time even though their farm team is in Syracuse.

 

[Random Forest]

Provorov is a freak of nature, he still makes rookie mistakes, but in general his play is more like a 10 year veteran.

I'd love a study on whether "rookie mistakes" is a real thing or just more conventional (non)wisdom that gets repeated and passed down. There's no mistake that Gostisbehere or Provorov makes that hasn't been made by MacDonald, MDZ, Gudas, or any other vet. Players obviously improve and develop, but I'm skeptical that there is anything particular about the types of mistakes that rookies make.

 

[BritainStix]

There are most definitely mistakes that are only made by rookies that they quickly learn not to do. Just because a vet does it 10 years into his career, doesn't mean that it isn't a really basic mistake that you make when you first enter the league. Trying to do too much too soon is often the first problem. Provorov and Ghost have both fallen foul of this in the last two seasons.

The pace of the game is usually the first cause.

 

[Random Forest]

There are most definitely mistakes that are only made by rookies that they quickly learn not to do. Just because a vet does it 10 years into his career, doesn't mean that it isn't a really basic mistake that you make when you first enter the league. Trying to do too much too soon is often the first problem. Provorov and Ghost have both fallen foul of this in the last two seasons.

The pace of the game is usually the first cause.

You know who's also run into problems trying to do too much this year? Giroux and Voracek. Why are these "rookie" mistakes when any player of any age is vulnerable to making them?

I don't think this exists. Plenty of veterans make the same exact mistakes that rookies make. It's just when rookies make them, we call them rookie mistakes because it's a nice and easy narrative that makes sense on a superficial level. I think it's specious and would fall apart with a closer look.

Put it this way: Let's say you had Andrew MacDonald and Shayne Gostisbehere on a team but had no way of knowing their identities. Who might you suspect is the veteran? Would you be able to tell based on the mistakes they make?

 

[Striiker]

I think the term "rookie mistake" applies when a young player makes a mistake that stems from inexperience.

Of course both vets and rookies try to do too much at times, but I think when vets do it they're more in the mindset of "this is risky but I'll try it anyway because it could pay off", vs when a rookie does it they're probably used to being able to get away with that previously at lower levels and haven't realized that it no longer works.

 

[Rebels57]

You know who's also run into problems trying to do too much this year? Giroux and Voracek. Why are these "rookie" mistakes when any player of any age is vulnerable to making them?

I don't think this exists. Plenty of veterans make the same exact mistakes that rookies make. It's just when rookies make them, we call them rookie mistakes because it's a nice and easy narrative that makes sense on a superficial level. I think it's specious and would fall apart with a closer look.

Put it this way: Let's say you had Andrew MacDonald and Shayne Gostisbehere on a team but had no way of knowing their identities. Who might you suspect is the veteran? Would you be able to tell based on the mistakes they make?

They use the phrase "rookie mistakes" because they are mistakes a talented young player will make less and less with gained experience and maturation. Nobody is mistake-free. That's a given. However, a terrible defensemen will continue to make mistakes no matter long they play in the league.

 

[Random Forest]

I think the term "rookie mistake" applies when a young player makes a mistake that stems from inexperience.

Of course both vets and rookies try to do too much at times, but I think when vets do it they're more in the mindset of "this is risky but I'll try it anyway because it could pay off", vs when a rookie does it they're probably used to being able to get away with that previously at lower levels and haven't realized that it no longer works.

I don't know about that. It might be true on some level for high-risk youngsters like Gostisbehere, but for every Gostisbehere there's a Slavin, Provorov, Pesce, etc. who doesn't make that type of mistake with any frequency.

Just like how for every Subban, Krug, Hamilton, Yandle, etc. who make those exact same mistakes, there's a Vlasic, McDonagh, etc. who doesn't really make those same types of mistakes.

I don't think rookie mistakes exist. I think the types of mistakes players make has much more to do with their play style than their experience. Risky veteran players make the same mistakes as risky rookies. Safe veterans make the same mistakes as safe rookies. ****** veterans the same as ****** rookies.

 

[BritainStix]

But they don't. That is exactly the point......