kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
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Bias - yes, but I also agree that Strome is a good player. Do I believe ADA or think it’s pure bias? Dilemma.
The Advanced Stats Thread Episode IX
- Thread starter Kakko
- Start date
Bias - yes, but I also agree that Strome is a good player. Do I believe ADA or think it’s pure bias? Dilemma.
I think Strome is a good player but ADA probably couldn't count to 10 if you spotted him the first 9 digits so I'm not interested in his opinion on analytics.
P.S. That was a math version of a Terry Bradshaw diss "he couldn't spell cat if you spotted him the c and the a".
kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
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I trust ADA opinion in this matter as well as that he didn’t add that’s Strome is good person, or good teammate or good in a locker room or has a character and is a leader etc.
kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
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Because if the question was about Glass or Staal then you’d bet these adjectives would be used.
Re. Strome he simply said he’s a good player.
P.S. Maybe I’m reaching but again, from what I watched Strome is a good player even if he’s not 1C which is not mutually exclusive.
GeorgeKaplan
Registered User
You can think Strome is a good player while acknowledging it doesn’t matter what ADA says because teammates don’t say negative things about each other
kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
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Isn’t what we’re discussing here? That ADA is an asshole for responding to another tweet about Strome’s high shooting %?
Maybe but that's because it's possible to say something positive about Strome's play on the ice unlike those 2. Doesn't mean that there's no room to criticize his analytics.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
@kovazub94 , you're getting really creative here with your arguments. Not in a good way, in an Enron creative accounting kind of way...
kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
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TBH, I have no idea how I wound up in the advanced stat thread in the first place, and if I were aware I’d knew better than to argue that Strome is a good player and ADA knows his hockey here with the “radicals”, lol.
With this I leave.
Saw that KHL has a ‘travelled distance’ stat. Kravy ranked well with 4.28 km in his last game.
I think that is a stat that could be interesting. Unfortunately I can’t find any detailed numbers from the KHL. Like of course TD/60 and rankings of players.
Anyone know if that is available anywhere?
I think that is a stat that could be interesting. Unfortunately I can’t find any detailed numbers from the KHL. Like of course TD/60 and rankings of players.
Anyone know if that is available anywhere?
kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
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Watched today’s episode of Hockey Central. One of the hosts is former Sheldon Keefe’s video coaches. When he was asked how Keefe will use TML’s significant analytical data he basically said it would go to data for indications of potential red flags and then ask his video coach to give him videos of shifts to watch and make a determination if the data supported a true red flag or was just an “aberration”.
This is maybe a bit off topic, but an interesting subject non the less that I have talked about in different situations before but never had confirmation on. And as I have understood it, many are not aware that it exists.
But there was an article in the business press in Sweden today that in detail covered the development of tracking players 24/7 from a health and performance perspective, with the headline "Injury free teams wins titles". One of these service providers states that it can reduce man-games lost with 60% over time.
The subject of the article is of course the providers of these services, and they talk with two sports team in Sweden and how they use these services. One uses an Irish provider and the other uses a Canadian provider (that according to the article also is used by 17 NHL teams, which proves that these things also exist in the NHL).
What they monitor more or less 24/7 is (with bracelets, mobile apps etc):
*Sleep - to detect mental issues/weak ability to recover
*Movement, off the ice but also on the ice, distance covered etc
*Pulse and breathing
*Each morning, the players conduct a number of stretching exercises to find out if they are stiff in any area, and reports it in an mobile app
*Each morning, the players conduct a number of physical exercises (vertical jumps etc) to find out how tired they are
Etc etc etc etc
Everything is monitored centrally by the service provides, based on "big data", and the teams gets red flags and abnormitets reported to them instantly and tailor-make the training and usage in games accordingly. A few examples was mentioned, Färjestad, a team in the SHL, currently has a player that has slept little after becoming a dad recently, which was flagged up by the system and the team have cut back on his training. No idea to train hard if you don't sleep. Another interesting example was that the system flagged up a correlation between how stiff a player was in the back and how much the player moved during games. The player himself could not feel any pain in the back, but was for stretches really stiff in the back. During those stretches he moved a lot less. By having the player conduct warm-up and stretching exercises each morning they could correct the issue.
So I think its safe to assume that we either have a tremendous amount of data on these guys, or is very far behind the average NHL team. The above is also supported by the reports that KK noted on that Kravy's pulse didn't go up very high during a practice.
But there was an article in the business press in Sweden today that in detail covered the development of tracking players 24/7 from a health and performance perspective, with the headline "Injury free teams wins titles". One of these service providers states that it can reduce man-games lost with 60% over time.
The subject of the article is of course the providers of these services, and they talk with two sports team in Sweden and how they use these services. One uses an Irish provider and the other uses a Canadian provider (that according to the article also is used by 17 NHL teams, which proves that these things also exist in the NHL).
What they monitor more or less 24/7 is (with bracelets, mobile apps etc):
*Sleep - to detect mental issues/weak ability to recover
*Movement, off the ice but also on the ice, distance covered etc
*Pulse and breathing
*Each morning, the players conduct a number of stretching exercises to find out if they are stiff in any area, and reports it in an mobile app
*Each morning, the players conduct a number of physical exercises (vertical jumps etc) to find out how tired they are
Etc etc etc etc
Everything is monitored centrally by the service provides, based on "big data", and the teams gets red flags and abnormitets reported to them instantly and tailor-make the training and usage in games accordingly. A few examples was mentioned, Färjestad, a team in the SHL, currently has a player that has slept little after becoming a dad recently, which was flagged up by the system and the team have cut back on his training. No idea to train hard if you don't sleep. Another interesting example was that the system flagged up a correlation between how stiff a player was in the back and how much the player moved during games. The player himself could not feel any pain in the back, but was for stretches really stiff in the back. During those stretches he moved a lot less. By having the player conduct warm-up and stretching exercises each morning they could correct the issue.
So I think its safe to assume that we either have a tremendous amount of data on these guys, or is very far behind the average NHL team. The above is also supported by the reports that KK noted on that Kravy's pulse didn't go up very high during a practice.
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1Knee1T
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2008
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- 126
Curious what teams do with this information. Are we assuming that a lower number is worse? A lower number would indicated that the player either A) Didn't play much, B) Was shelled in their own zone for extended periods, or C) Controlled play in the offensive zone for extended periods. Less transitioning from zone to zone would lower the overall number, and C would obviously be good while B is bad.
On the other hand, higher numbers could be better if you're starting in your own zone more often. Could indicate that a player is getting the puck out of their own zone more often.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that with tracking data coming to NHL, I'm cautious that we'll get all these metrics and not know what to do with them. Something as simple as distance traveled can impacted by distance per zone, zone starts, TOI, and probably other things we aren't thinking of.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
Not going to go into this debate other than saying that I don't think it's a bad thing that players disregard analytics, it's probably an outright good thing TBH as it doesn't put a player into the mindset of playing for good analytics rather than good analytics coming from playing well. I do think analytics is a very important thing to consider for GMs and coaches though, but that opinion is coming to the surprise of no one.
I will push back against the idea of DeAngelo being a particularly stupid player though. Just watching interviews with him it's quite obvious that he's of at least above average intelligence, if not more, from his way of speaking (rapid delivery, little hesitation, immediate and specific grasp of facts). Strome also picked him out as the Ranger with the greatest "hockey mind" in an interview last season. Tony and Ryan are close friends though, so there might be some bias there.
What happened to the poster that used to post all the Post-game charts and was super active in here?
They get hired by a team?
They get hired by a team?
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
You mean Silverfish?
Let's just say that there was a lot of "falling on deaf ears" here...
he was full of nonsense anyway...who was that awful dman he wanted us to sign naka-something or other? terrible...
no one other other hand eyjay was a smart guy. he is missed
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
It was Kazuki Nakajima IIRC.he was full of nonsense anyway...who was that awful dman he wanted us to sign naka-something or other? terrible...
no one other other hand eyjay was a smart guy. he is missed
Mac n Gs
Gorton plz
- Jan 17, 2014
- 22,590
- 12,855
This years Rangers have the worst xGA of every team since they started tracking the stat.
No problem with Ruff though.
No problem with Ruff though.
Haha, I think that guy had pretty deaf ears himself. I tried to explain even the most basic things to him -- but it was like talking to a wall.
There will always be guys like that at this place. All coaches and GMs and everyone are tremendous idiots and don't understand a thing and they are super confident and make all kinds of crazy predictions and think they know it all, then after a few years they get a record. If there wasn't an archive at this place these guys would all still be posting here.
Its too bad that they didn't listen. A few of them had ambitions and were really smart, and I went out of my way to try to teach them stuff that are established facts today. They would have been ahead of the curve had they listened, but...
Great points, like you say, all these metrics must from whatever perspective you are looking at them from, by cleaned from noise as much as possible.
