I think the PK failure/Salvador correlation isn't as obvious as you're suggesting. Yes the PK did improve once he went down, but there has been games where the Devils looked just as bad as when Sal was playing. The recent detroit game was one of them. I also found it strange both PK units improved after Sal went down, which suggests, maybe it was a strategic adjustment. I'm sure it'd be hard to find more than 1-2 PK goals that Sal was directly responsible for. Just because the guy was on the ice, doesn't mean he made the mistake. If coaches made decisions solely on those blanket stats, they wouldn't be getting the real story.
The Adam Larsson Project
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I think the PK failure/Salvador correlation isn't as obvious as you're suggesting. Yes the PK did improve once he went down, but there has been games where the Devils looked just as bad as when Sal was playing. The recent detroit game was one of them. I also found it strange both PK units improved after Sal went down, which suggests, maybe it was a strategic adjustment. I'm sure it'd be hard to find more than 1-2 PK goals that Sal was directly responsible for. Just because the guy was on the ice, doesn't mean he made the mistake. If coaches made decisions solely on those blanket stats, they wouldn't be getting the real story.
The PK as a whole got better. Larsson taking ownership of his role on the PK was a big help. As was moving Greene back to the left as RG said. I also think the communication has improved.
njdevsfn95
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Of course it wasnt only "Larsson in, Salvador out" on the PK but it is one of the clearer indicators of what exactly changed. They didny change their PK system, just personnel and perhaps positioning.
Just get Larsson healthy and back into the lineup playing the minutes he should get which Harrold is currently enjoying.
Just get Larsson healthy and back into the lineup playing the minutes he should get which Harrold is currently enjoying.
That's an incredibly overly simplistic view of the discussion.
The crux of the current form of this topic is that Larsson hasn't replaced Salvador's traditional/historic team role completely. Comparing the two is apples to oranges.
JimEIV
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One of the things that has always bothered me about D-men conversations is most fans are completely unaware of the size of the job the player has...Then look and go 16 minutes isn't all that different than 19 minutes...
Some will watch "D-man A" and say he is playing great...Never noticing he is out against the weakest opponents, with limited and select minutes and then they will watch "D-man B" playing in all situations against the best opponents and say He is terrible...
It would almost be like watching a guy bench press 200 lbs and saying he is strong and then watching a guy struggling to bench press 450 lbs and saying he is weak....They aren't even remotely doing the same thing.
Some will watch "D-man A" and say he is playing great...Never noticing he is out against the weakest opponents, with limited and select minutes and then they will watch "D-man B" playing in all situations against the best opponents and say He is terrible...
It would almost be like watching a guy bench press 200 lbs and saying he is strong and then watching a guy struggling to bench press 450 lbs and saying he is weak....They aren't even remotely doing the same thing.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
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please read this post:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=93909151&postcount=942
thank you.
Jim is right though, in the sense that Larsson doesn't play as many minutes as Sal does, and isn't matched up against the other team's top players. But Salvador doesn't match up against top players, either. That role has mostly been Greene and Severson's all season.
But Larsson only starts a third of his shifts in the offensive zone. The next lowest non-Helgeson defenseman is Greene at 40%. It's an incredibly tough role for a young defenseman who's mostly been paired with guys who either don't play strong D (Gelinas), or who don't move the puck well (Helgeson). Despite that, he's still one of the best possession defensemen on the team, which means despite all those defensive zone starts, the puck's moving the other way more often than not. Compare that with Merrill, who's been one of the worst possession defensemen on the team despite being much more sheltered in terms of both matchups and zone starts.
JimEIV
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You really know better than to use 15 game sample sizes with extenuating circumstances....most of the defense this season has switched roles multiple times due to injury and gaps. There has been back filling and experiments going on with the defense since day one this season.
Officer Rod Farva
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To me advanced stats don't mean ****. In Hockey, Baseball, Football, any sport.
If you watch the games you realize Harrold ****ing sucks. End of story. If you can't see that then IDK what to say to you, I'll go lose my brain cells drinking or smoking something.
If you watch the games you realize Harrold ****ing sucks. End of story. If you can't see that then IDK what to say to you, I'll go lose my brain cells drinking or smoking something.
JimEIV
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I kind of agree with you(not totally though)...and it is partially why I keep bring up the stats...
Hey did you know.. NOT ONLY has Harrold NOT committed any turnovers this season, He NOT ONLY leads the team in relCorsi, but he ALSO leads the team in Quality of Competition
So if we want to play the small sample possession nonsense, Currently Peter Freaking Harrold is the Devils BEST defenseman... It is all about possession, right?
Officer Rod Farva
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I was at the Chicago game Tuesday. Harrold gave the puck to Patrick Sharp for a breakaway, Kinkaid made the save.
Advanced stat blah blah blah, doesn't mean anything.
He probably leads the team in quality competition because on the road other coaches match up their big guns with a scrub minor leaguer like Harrold. If it was at home then that's all on Pete Deboer, who is a hack and would play an awful awful player like Harrold against better competition.
No it's not all about possession. As last year proved, and the Maple Leafs are proving this year.
Benedict Parisechuk
Army of Pandolfo's
Harrold leads the team in quality of competition because our coach is a moron who puts him in that role.
JimEIV
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You missed what happened then...Jagr made a bad pass right to Sharp on the play you are talking about.
Harrold NEVER touched the puck and therefore never turned the puck over...
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20142015,2,410&lang=en
Go to 2:12 to watch the play again on NHL.com
JK3
Go Easy-Step Lightly-Stay Free
This just cracked me up for some reason, especially the "experiments going on" part but it's accurate. Unfortunately it's probably the best way to describe what's been going on with our D all year.
Potential slogan material for the entire team too. The NJ Devils, "back filling and experiments going on since 2012".
Officer Rod Farva
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******* is still shooting the puck right into Sharps shins, like Zid last night, even if it is a good pass. Not saying Jagr isn't at fault as well, but have one ounce of anticipation in your worthless body and know to back up and play defense, basically a turnover but the stats don't reflect it because of a technicality. I've seen defenseman in my C division roller league play that better, which brings me back to my first point, that Harrold ****ing sucks
JimEIV
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This just cracked me up for some reason, especially the "experiments going on" part but it's accurate. Unfortunately it's probably the best way to describe what's been going on with our D all year.
Potential slogan material for the entire team too. The NJ Devils, "back filling and experiments going on since 2012".
That is funny. I actually smiled and I haven't done that all day.
JimEIV
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He didn't shoot the puck either, he literally never touched the puck...Jagr made weak pass from the RW wall right to Sharp.
JK3
Go Easy-Step Lightly-Stay Free
That one's on Jagr all the way, soft pass. I bet if Harrold backs off he gets caught flat footed and with Sharp's speed he blows by him anyway.
Benedict Parisechuk
Army of Pandolfo's
JimEIV
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But the question often arises why do certain players play more often.
You can't talk about why Larsson gets scratched or plays reduced minutes without talking about other players, can you?
NJDevs26
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Hence the 'by extension comparing other defensemen to him'. The last several posts were just talking about whether one play in the Chicago game was Harrold's fault or Jagr's fault. Those have nothing to do with Larsson or comparing them.
JimEIV
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First off, no one says it's all about possession. Second, quality of competition, at least in terms of the stat, is widely known to mean very little. Third, I don't know where you're getting "leads the team in relCorsi" but I'm willing to bet it was after...1? Maybe 2 games?
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...aters&minutes=50&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC
Larsson is very good, and the stats back it up. Stats only back up Peter Harrold if you cherry pick the meaningless ones and lie about the others.
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