The Adam Larsson Project

[Cowbell232]

Peter Harrold ****ing sucks

I think its time to take a break from here if people are going to be defending playing him big minutes over some of the other guys

holy smokes

Dude, people aren't defending him playing big minutes - his defenders are saying that he isn't as bad as others are saying, and that is a dramatically different role player than the players that some posters would like to see in the game instead. This is specifically recently to Larsson [this is the Larsson thread...] and their different roles.

I think your going a little further in the other direction here really...

 

[NJDevs26]

Honestly I thought Harrold was real good against the Hawks...the problem isn't when he gets 15-16 minutes, it's when he gets 20+.

And really Harrold's not the guy Larsson's competing with for top four time anyway, it's more or less Zidlicky/Severson since they're RH shots, plus you're not bumping Greene or Merrill out of the top four anyway. Like someone posted a while back I wouldn't mind seeing Greene-Severson, Merrill-Larsson, Gelinas/Harrold-Zidlicky as the three pairings with Hegelson going back down when everyone's healthy. Having Harrold/Zid as your third pairing could also help keep Greene/Severson's minutes down a bit.

 

[Hypernova]

Honestly I thought Harrold was real good against the Hawks...the problem isn't when he gets 15-16 minutes, it's when he gets 20+.

And really Harrold's not the guy Larsson's competing with for top four time anyway, it's more or less Zidlicky/Severson since they're RH shots, plus you're not bumping Greene or Merrill out of the top four anyway. Like someone posted a while back I wouldn't mind seeing Greene-Severson, Merrill-Larsson, Gelinas/Harrold-Zidlicky as the three pairings with Hegelson going back down when everyone's healthy.

Harrold is also a RH. But anyway, Larsson was in the lineup until Larsson got sick so I don't know why everyone is so upset about him playing. Helgelson and Gelinas can sit a few games.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

playing Harrold 0:01 is a mistake

he is what he is. a #7 DMan that has done nothing to deserve being in the lineup

I'd rather have all the young guys play. at least they can get better with time.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

and also I don't want to hear about "X player is taking Larsson's spot, not Y player"

these same people were telling me Larsson could not take Salvador's role. Guess what? he did, and FAR exceeded anyone's expectations in doing so

I want to play the best 6 players. I don't wanna hear about roles.

 

[NJDevs26]

Harrold is also a RH. But anyway, Larsson was in the lineup until Larsson got sick so I don't know why everyone is so upset about him playing. Helgelson and Gelinas can sit a few games.

He was only in the lineup when Merrill was hurt and Harrold was in the AHL, although clearly Larsson's passed Gelinas on the trustmeter atm (whereas Gelinas was playing over him early too).

 

[Cowbell232]

playing Harrold 0:01 is a mistake

he is what he is. a #7 DMan that has done nothing to deserve being in the lineup

I'd rather have all the young guys play. at least they can get better with time.

The #7 d-man on a team plays when there are injuries. Look at our lineup, we're #7 in the league in man games lost to injury right now.

and also I don't want to hear about "X player is taking Larsson's spot, not Y player"

these same people were telling me Larsson could not take Salvador's role. Guess what? he did, and FAR exceeded anyone's expectations in doing so

I want to play the best 6 players. I don't wanna hear about roles.

Roles matter. If you don't want to hear about that, you're not rooting for the right team, in the right sport, and not talking about in the right place.

Larsson is not taking Salvador's role. He's taking his minutes, but not his role. There's a BIG difference there. You could even say Salvador's bad play and injury are a huge, huge part of the team's troubles this year.

 

[NJDevs26]

Thinking ANY team doesn't (or shouldn't) have roles is misguided. There are players for roles on every team.

Technically Larsson did take Sal's PK role, but not his even-strength minutes.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The #7 d-man on a team plays when there are injuries. Look at our lineup, we're #7 in the league in man games lost to injury right now.



Roles matter. If you don't want to hear about that, you're not rooting for the right team, in the right sport, and not talking about in the right place.

Larsson is not taking Salvador's role. He's taking his minutes, but not his role. There's a BIG difference there. You could even say Salvador's bad play and injury are a huge, huge part of the team's troubles this year.

dude LArsson was playing Salvador's PK minutes, big time. He most certainly 'took his role'.

 

[Cowbell232]

dude LArsson was playing Salvador's PK minutes, big time. He most certainly 'took his role'.

What about his hit numbers? His even strength numbers? Breakout passes/zone starts?

Sure, he took part of it, I'll admit that, but the whole role? Not even close.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Full-stop: Peter Harrold does not give the puck away because the other team has the puck when he's on the ice, and chipping the puck out of the D-zone and into the O-zone does not count as a giveaway, even when the other team is first to the puck.

All this stuff about "Larsson or Gelinas could have 5 giveaways..." pretty sure NO ONE is defending their giveaways, or Gelinas at all, lately. He hasn't been very good or reliable, and even his offense has been questionable (though that's a tough dig with the state of the team). Larsson has basically COMPLETELY usurped Sal's role: heavy PK minutes, lots of defensive zone starts, and somehow, despite all these giveaways he supposedly makes every game, the Devils outshoot the other team when he's on the ice.

It blows my mind that anyone thinks Larsson hasn't been exceptional in his role this season, to say nothing of him supposedly being worse than HARROLD.

 

[JimEIV]

And to fuel the fire a little...Salvador and Larsson have played just about the same number of minutes to date and Salvador has half the giveaways....factor in Quality of Competition...and well you know.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

And to fuel the fire a little...Salvador and Larsson have played just about the same number of minutes to date and Salvador has half the giveaways....factor in Quality of Competition...and well you know.

are you really going to tell me Salvador has been better than Larsson this year?

yes or no.

 

[JimEIV]

are you really going to tell me Salvador has been better than Larsson this year?

yes or no.

Its never that simple.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

And to fuel the fire a little...Salvador and Larsson have played just about the same number of minutes to date and Salvador has half the giveaways....factor in Quality of Competition...and well you know.

Should probably go back and watch some tape to see when we killed off around 16 straight penalties with Larsson playing Salvador's role on the Pk.

 

[Wingman77]

Larsson will never, ever have the same role as Salvador has had throughout his career

Just speaking on a general role level, Sal's career role in a nutshell has been as a physical, in your face, shut down type, stay at home defenseman

Larsson's role and it seems he will grow more into this is as a defender that is not going to overwhelm anybody, but will provide a bit of sound offense as well as sound defense and can contribute on any special teams situation

and the notion that the playing the best means you'll get the best results is as basic thinking as it gets. Doesn't matter if its the NHL, youth hockey, or in the workforce. Basic example, take any Yankees team between 2001-2008 and take the Devils in 2003. One team had many of the leagues best players and did nothing. The other had a solid but nothing overwhelming group of players and won it all. Like Michael Jordan once said, talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

What about his hit numbers? His even strength numbers? Breakout passes/zone starts?

Sure, he took part of it, I'll admit that, but the whole role? Not even close.

For real, they are all better, aside from the hits. And hits are a function of puck possession, at which Adam Larsson has been exceptional and Salvador has been one of the worst in the league since 12-13.

Larsson blocks more shots, starts in the defensive zone as often, makes more breakout passes (how is this even a question...), scores more points, takes less penalties, plays just as much on the PK...seriously, he's been great. I'd bet his giveaways are high because of how often he's tasked with breaking the puck out of the defensive zone.

In general, giveaways don't tend to mean anything in terms of defensive play. Hjalmarsson and Seabrook lead Chicago in giveaways. They must be awful. Severson leads the entire Devils team in giveaways, followed by Jagr and Greene. The stat is more an indication of who tends to carry the puck most.

 

[Wingman77]

Its never that simple.

When one thinks simply, it sure is that simple

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Larsson will never, ever have the same role as Salvador has had throughout his career

Just speaking on a general role level, Sal's career role in a nutshell has been as a physical, in your face, shut down type, stay at home defenseman

Larsson's role and it seems he will grow more into this is as a defender that is not going to overwhelm anybody, but will provide a bit of sound offense as well as sound defense and can contribute on any special teams situation

and the notion that the playing the best means you'll get the best results is as basic thinking as it gets. Doesn't matter if its the NHL, youth hockey, or in the workforce. Basic example, take any Yankees team between 2001-2008 and take the Devils in 2003. One team had many of the leagues best players and did nothing. The other had a solid but nothing overwhelming group of players and won it all. Like Michael Jordan once said, talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.

Which is good, because that role is slowly but surely becoming worthless in today's league. Watching the teams and coaches that don't yet get it (Habs and Pittsburgh with Murray, Colorado with Stuart, Toronto with Gleason/Robidas/Polak/Fraser/Holzer/whoever) has made for some wonderful comedy the past few years.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

For real, they are all better, aside from the hits. And hits are a function of puck possession, at which Adam Larsson has been exceptional and Salvador has been one of the worst in the league since 12-13.

Larsson blocks more shots, starts in the defensive zone as often, makes more breakout passes (how is this even a question...), scores more points, takes less penalties, plays just as much on the PK...seriously, he's been great. I'd bet his giveaways are high because of how often he's tasked with breaking the puck out of the defensive zone.

In general, giveaways don't tend to mean anything in terms of defensive play. Hjalmarsson and Seabrook lead Chicago in giveaways. They must be awful. Severson leads the entire Devils team in giveaways, followed by Jagr and Greene. The stat is more an indication of who tends to carry the puck most.

thank you, I thought I was going crazy.

 

[MadDevil]

Larsson has been very good at the role he's been given. Can't we just be happy about that? I swear people just get bored if we haven't had the Larsson debate for more than a day.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Clearly it comes down to this:

If PDB is concerned about moving this team FORWARD - then Gelinas, Helgeson and Larsson should be all taking roles and minutes away from Harrold, Salvador and Zids expense.

If PDB is concerned about winning a couple of games in the short term - then playing Harrold could possibly make more sense - at least in his mind.

I personally don't want to see another minute wasted in the development of all of our young kids and I think that means playing (almost) every night unless a night off is needed to take a step back and watch a bit.

I don't think Sal/Harrold are as bad as some paint them out to be - but I think they are a big hindrance to the long term future of the NJDevils.

And.. please stop trying to trade Gelinas. He's probably the only player on our entire team with a ++ skill in any facet of the game. He'll come around, and more importantly he produces points and chances in almost every game he plays... (for us and them, lol)

 

[Devils090]

lol Larsson could win the Norris and Jim would find a way to tell you he's the worst d-man in the league.

 

[njdevsfn95]

You are ZBC, that hasnt changed.

To point to Larsson's effectiveness compared to Salvador, look no further than the PK when Larsson came aboard and Salvador got hurt.

The big beef with Harrold is he is no part of the FUTURE defensive core.

Greene-Severson-Larsson-Helgeson-Merrill-Gelinas

Harrold should only be getting minutes if any of those guys are injured/suspended. Period.

Now the coach in me thinks going with the lineup that has the best chance to win is more important (and short term it is) so I can understand the use of Harrold to remind a young player to pick his game up.

But doesnt mean I think he should play over Gelinas for a significant stretch.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Greene getting back on the left side (where he belongs) was also a huge difference in the PK. He was lost on the right side for some reason and looked like Zidlicky on the PK.