Boston Bruins The 4th Line Dilemma

[Dennis Bonvie]

I guess Cassidy reads HF?



Hopefully, they perform well together.

4th line (or is it?), big deal.

So who's the right wing on that all lefty line?

 

[Don Cherry]

I guess Heinen does the little things that help you win games? The question is just what are those little things because they have yet to show themselves.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

You guys are ******* hilarious.

A couple of us have been saying we wanted to see a guy that has some offensive skills on the 4th line. Cassidy does that and all you do is **** all over the player. Are you guys even Bruins fans, or only if the B’s do what you want them too?

Say what you want about Heinen, and his point totals as a rookie in 8 games (what were Marchand’s totals in his first NHL stint?), but he is more skilled than your normal 4th line plug, plus he’s a sound defensive player.

Ideally, he plays well and the team wins. Not sure if some of you are down with that or not, but I don’t really care.

 

[Fenian24]

I like the new fourth line with Nash centering Marchand and Pastrnak. Claude would be so proud.

Heinen-Kuraly-Schaller is awful. Schaller is big but doesn't use his body, a poor man' Jimmy Hayes, I like Kuraly and Heinen at his best becomes a lessor version of Loui Eriksson, not meant as a compliment. What a sad, soft group of forwards. Without Backes and Bergeron this is a team competing for a top 10 pick

 

[finchster]

Heinen made the play that got the team back in the game. So maybe it could work.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I like the new fourth line with Nash centering Marchand and Pastrnak. Claude would be so proud.

Heinen-Kuraly-Schaller is awful. Schaller is big but doesn't use his body, a poor man' Jimmy Hayes, I like Kuraly and Heinen at his best becomes a lessor version of Loui Eriksson, not meant as a compliment. What a sad, soft group of forwards. Without Backes and Bergeron this is a team competing for a top 10 pick

Posted at 9:50? What, ten minutes into the game, if that?

Heinen looked nervous in the first period, but settled down as the game went on. He does remind me of Loui (meant as a compliment). In his limited ice, he was strong along the boards and had a good net front presence.

Personally, I would like to see Heinen on the 3rd line (and go something like Kuraly-Nash-White/Acciari on 4th), but he didn’t look out of place at all on the 4th line. If they did that, would like to see him get some PK time.

 

[NDiesel]

I like the new fourth line with Nash centering Marchand and Pastrnak. Claude would be so proud.

Heinen-Kuraly-Schaller is awful. Schaller is big but doesn't use his body, a poor man' Jimmy Hayes, I like Kuraly and Heinen at his best becomes a lessor version of Loui Eriksson, not meant as a compliment. What a sad, soft group of forwards. Without Backes and Bergeron this is a team competing for a top 10 pick

Your schtick is getting very tiresome. We get it, you still want to watch 1970s hockey with goons who can't skate. How bout instead of dwelling on the past you post about ways to actually improve the team in this century?

 

[Don Cherry]

Felger thinks some of the kids are going to be sent down in favor of adding some vets. He mentioned Kuraly and Heinen.

 

[BruinDust]

Vets? What Vets? Jarome Iginla?

Where are these vets coming from to replace the young guys?

The last thing Boston management need to do is panic, send down a bunch of young players and go to the scrap pile of UFAs without contracts and bring them in.

It's pretty much the polar opposite of how teams are run in the salary cap world.

Felger is a moron.

 

[BruinDust]

Your schtick is getting very tiresome. We get it, you still want to watch 1970s hockey with goons who can't skate. How bout instead of dwelling on the past you post about ways to actually improve the team in this century?

Where was all these big gritty forwards on Colorado that helped curb-stomp the Bruins the last two games?

How in the heck did Colorado win those games without these vaunted big physical forwards? Doesn't make sense. (Sarcasm).

 

[World of Wardlow]

ryan white ...

 

[NDiesel]

Where was all these big gritty forwards on Colorado that helped curb-stomp the Bruins the last two games?

How in the heck did Colorado win those games without these vaunted big physical forwards? Doesn't make sense. (Sarcasm).

Big bad Mackinnon, Yakupov and Duchene were tossing our guys around

Who cares if we lose 6-3, McQuaid and Beleskey won their fights!

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I'm not sure how many people in this thread are actually interested in a real hockey conversation here that isn't just taking extreme views and mocking other viewpoints but, in case anyone is:

The Avs actually had a much larger group of forwards than us and I think that it was a factor (in winning puck battles that leads to winning games). Schaller is heavy (but soft) so with Backes (220pds) and Acciari (208) out we are hard pressed to find guys over 200pds and we have lots of players around the 180-185pd mark .

Colorado, meanwhile, didn't have any scrappers but had a distinct size advantage over the Bruins:

Landeskog: 6-1 218pds
McKinnon 6'1 -208pds
Rantanen: 6'4 -215pds
Soderberg: 6'3 -210pds
Wilson: 6'1 -221pds
Johnson: 6'4 -225pds
Nemeth: 6'3 -220pds
Zadorov: 6'4 230pds

The Bruins had SEVEN forwards in the 180 pd range last night... I'm loving life if I'm the Avalanche D.

If I looked at that, and then the Bruins roster, I would assume that the Avalanche are going to take 60+ % of board battles or fighting for space in front of the net based on their advantage in being able to box out our players.

I would love to see Cehlarik up here to bring both his skill and larger frame (6'2 -210pds) as that is something that is really lacking with our forward group ---especially with Backes out.

 

[Fenian24]

Your schtick is getting very tiresome. We get it, you still want to watch 1970s hockey with goons who can't skate. How bout instead of dwelling on the past you post about ways to actually improve the team in this century?

Goons who can skate? Sadly I know the game had "evolved" from what a great game it once was but despite it's wussification there is still a place for players who will fight and hit, it's not quite speed skating with sticks yet. Also I want players who are tough that can play, not Loui Eriksson "tough" which is anything but, I want players who initiate contact, can skate and hit and whose speed and hitting can be turned into points.

Give me a choice between a Phil Kessel or Wayne Simmonds I take Simmonds every time.

One of the biggest issues since Sweeney took over this team is his inability or unwillingness to draft physical players, McAvoy and Frederic being the possible exceptions, his inability to replace Milan Lucic with a similar player. Lucic was allowed to walk because of fears for his contract demands, in his place Matt Belesky was brought in for 2 million dollars less and one tenth the production, intimidation factor, fighting ability and offensive production. Sweeney has many other issues but this is a contributing factor in his inability to be an average GM, never mind a good one.

You can cry and worry about how they need another Loui Eriksson type or how Spooner isn't getting a fair chance or how Danton Heinen needs more ice time or how they need more skill. I'll cry about how they are disgracefully soft, seem uninterested in putting any effort forward in 2 of the 3 games so far, how the need a physical big forward or two and an attitude readjustment.

Bettman and his cronies may be able to control the conversation on the networks they own (nhl TV and radio) and try to keep saying how fighting is dying out and has no place but try asking players how they feel about having guys who will have their backs, set a physical tone and create space so the Bjork's of the world have space to operate or the 85-90% of fans who still like fighting and hitting despite the leagues best attempts to dissuade such feelings.

 

[BruinDust]

Goons who can skate? Sadly I know the game had "evolved" from what a great game it once was but despite it's wussification there is still a place for players who will fight and hit, it's not quite speed skating with sticks yet. Also I want players who are tough that can play, not Loui Eriksson "tough" which is anything but, I want players who initiate contact, can skate and hit and whose speed and hitting can be turned into points.

Give me a choice between a Phil Kessel or Wayne Simmonds I take Simmonds every time.

One of the biggest issues since Sweeney took over this team is his inability or unwillingness to draft physical players, McAvoy and Frederic being the possible exceptions, his inability to replace Milan Lucic with a similar player. Lucic was allowed to walk because of fears for his contract demands, in his place Matt Belesky was brought in for 2 million dollars less and one tenth the production, intimidation factor, fighting ability and offensive production. Sweeney has many other issues but this is a contributing factor in his inability to be an average GM, never mind a good one.

You can cry and worry about how they need another Loui Eriksson type or how Spooner isn't getting a fair chance or how Danton Heinen needs more ice time or how they need more skill. I'll cry about how they are disgracefully soft, seem uninterested in putting any effort forward in 2 of the 3 games so far, how the need a physical big forward or two and an attitude readjustment.

Bettman and his cronies may be able to control the conversation on the networks they own (nhl TV and radio) and try to keep saying how fighting is dying out and has no place but try asking players how they feel about having guys who will have their backs, set a physical tone and create space so the Bjork's of the world have space to operate or the 85-90% of fans who still like fighting and hitting despite the leagues best attempts to dissuade such feelings.

Goons who can't skate are a liability, plain and simple. Forget the offensive liability, what good is a 4th line that doesn't score, and now can't defend because they have this goon who can't keep up in his own end? Not to mention 4th lines play more minutes than ever before, 3-4-5 min. a night players are a thing of the past in a league where rolling lines and 35-45 second shifts are the norm. There is a reason why Matt Martin and Ryan Reeves have more value now, they are the modern day enforcer, "goons" who can skate well. And those guys are harder to find.

Most people here I would think would gladly take Wayne Simmonds over Phil Kessel, so you're not unique in that regard.

Where does Sweeney find another "Lucic"? Lucic is one of the most unique players in the sport. I never agreed with letting him go, personally I would of re-signed him, but to find a replacement? Good luck with that.

And stop with this false narrative that Bettman and his "cronies" are trying to weed fighting out of the league by using the media. Fans like fighting, the players want it in the game, and the owners like money. You make it sound like it's the Fans/Players vs. the morality-driven league and ownership that want these dastardly fighters gone from the sport. When have billionaire owners ever been worried about morality? And if it was liability they were really concerned about, fighting would already be banned. The owners are more than happy to let these guys punch each other in the face if it puts dollars in their pocket.

Fact is, the media is simply pointing out the facts, fighting is down. Fighting is down because there are less guys willing to do it. There are less guys willing to do it, because being willing and able to fight doesn't get you an NHL job anymore on that basis alone. You need to be able to hold your own on the ice, meaning you need to be able to skate. It's not some league-driven conspiracy.

I don't like the direction the game is headed any more than you do. I find it to be a less-entertaining product all-around, including less fighting, less intensity, less physical play, but I don't make the rules and have no influence on how the sport has change. I just want the Bruins to win, and employing a 4th line "goon" playing 5 mins a night, can't skate and is a liability on the ice won't help them.

 

[Fierce1]

The primary job of the 4th line is to not get scored against and get the puck in deep. They should play physical but more importantly not put themselves out of position and out of the play. Scoring should be way down on the list of priorities. The reason the Merlot line was so good was because they knew exactly what they were and they played a very basic dump, hit and take up a defensive position. When turnovers or an offensive chance or a goal happened it was gravy. Most young skilled/semi skilled players have no idea how to play without the puck, they're usually a horrible choice for fourth line duty. Young skilled guys want to impress and they want to move up in the line up and it usually means they get their priorities mixed up. Heinen is an intelligent he could probably handle fourth line work, Kurally has a great motor, he works his butt off but his play without the puck needs a lot of work. Acciari is good, he keeps it simple and plays a solid defensive game. I said back in July that losing Moore would be trouble for this team. Good on the draw, very defensive minded and good on the PK. You can't just throw a young player into that spot and expect him to do what a vet like Moore could do.

The Bruins problem right now is barely any of our guys are playing intelligent without the puck, the scoring chances on Rask are through the roof. You can't win like that, Butch has to clean that up. Getting Bergeron back will be huge, it slots Nash back to where he belongs.

 

[KnightofBoston]

I guess Heinen does the little things that help you win games? The question is just what are those little things because they have yet to show themselves.

More like you've yet to notice

 

[LouJersey]

looks like there is speculation that White will sign soon officially (Wally's article other thread) so I would assume Heinen goes back to Providence, which is a shame.

 

[BruinDust]

looks like there is speculation that White will sign soon officially (Wally's article other thread) so I would assume Heinen goes back to Providence, which is a shame.

My guess is Czarnik will be sent down if they sign White.

Good riddance.

 

[Fenian24]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/

 

[LouJersey]

Goons who can skate? Sadly I know the game had "evolved" from what a great game it once was but despite it's wussification there is still a place for players who will fight and hit, it's not quite speed skating with sticks yet. Also I want players who are tough that can play, not Loui Eriksson "tough" which is anything but, I want players who initiate contact, can skate and hit and whose speed and hitting can be turned into points.

Give me a choice between a Phil Kessel or Wayne Simmonds I take Simmonds every time.

One of the biggest issues since Sweeney took over this team is his inability or unwillingness to draft physical players, McAvoy and Frederic being the possible exceptions, his inability to replace Milan Lucic with a similar player. Lucic was allowed to walk because of fears for his contract demands, in his place Matt Belesky was brought in for 2 million dollars less and one tenth the production, intimidation factor, fighting ability and offensive production. Sweeney has many other issues but this is a contributing factor in his inability to be an average GM, never mind a good one.

You can cry and worry about how they need another Loui Eriksson type or how Spooner isn't getting a fair chance or how Danton Heinen needs more ice time or how they need more skill. I'll cry about how they are disgracefully soft, seem uninterested in putting any effort forward in 2 of the 3 games so far, how the need a physical big forward or two and an attitude readjustment.

Bettman and his cronies may be able to control the conversation on the networks they own (nhl TV and radio) and try to keep saying how fighting is dying out and has no place but try asking players how they feel about having guys who will have their backs, set a physical tone and create space so the Bjork's of the world have space to operate or the 85-90% of fans who still like fighting and hitting despite the leagues best attempts to dissuade such feelings.

This is insanity at it's best. A guy with Kessel's big game production is easily more valuable than Simmonds and I love Wayne. Now, you want to bring cap number or whatever, fine, but come on. I would agree on 90 percent of skilled RW, but Phil?

As for Eriksson, if Lucic played the game Loui does down low taking punishment to score he would score 30 goals annually. Again, I love Lucic as well, but he brought his A game less than I would have liked a lot of the time.

Also you do realize that Beleskey outhit and out fought Lucic the year Looch was traded and MB was healthy right?

 

[LouJersey]

My guess is Czarnik will be sent down if they sign White.

Good riddance.

Bergeron also sounds iffy for this weekend so you could see Nash continue to play top line and Schaller-White-Heinen

 

[BruinDust]

This is insanity at it's best. A guy with Kessel's big game production is easily more valuable than Simmonds and I love Wayne. Now, you want to bring cap number or whatever, fine, but come on. I would agree on 90 percent of skilled RW, but Phil?

As for Eriksson, if Lucic played the game Loui does down low taking punishment to score he would score 30 goals annually. Again, I love Lucic as well, but he brought his A game less than I would have liked a lot of the time.

Simmonds has actually average more goals over the past 4 seasons than Kessel.

You have a point with the playoff production however.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I'm not sure how many people in this thread are actually interested in a real hockey conversation here that isn't just taking extreme views and mocking other viewpoints but, in case anyone is:

The Avs actually had a much larger group of forwards than us and I think that it was a factor (in winning puck battles that leads to winning games). Schaller is heavy (but soft) so with Backes (220pds) and Acciari (208) out we are hard pressed to find guys over 200pds and we have lots of players around the 180-185pd mark .

Colorado, meanwhile, didn't have any scrappers but had a distinct size advantage over the Bruins:

Landeskog: 6-1 218pds
McKinnon 6'1 -208pds
Rantanen: 6'4 -215pds
Soderberg: 6'3 -210pds
Wilson: 6'1 -221pds
Johnson: 6'4 -225pds
Nemeth: 6'3 -220pds
Zadorov: 6'4 230pds

The Bruins had SEVEN forwards in the 180 pd range last night... I'm loving life if I'm the Avalanche D.

If I looked at that, and then the Bruins roster, I would assume that the Avalanche are going to take 60+ % of board battles or fighting for space in front of the net based on their advantage in being able to box out our players.

I would love to see Cehlarik up here to bring both his skill and larger frame (6'2 -210pds) as that is something that is really lacking with our forward group ---especially with Backes out.

And yet it was the 185 pound Heinen that took the puck hard to the net and sparked the team in the 3rd.

I get what you are saying about size, but it is and always has been a case of, the size of the fight in the dog not the size of the dog in the fight (Brendan Gallagher says hello).

Listen, I wish the B’s had a Marcus Foligno or a Josh Anderson (big kids that can play the game). Unfortunately, they don’t have that guy right now.

 

[LouJersey]

Simmonds has actually average more goals over the past 4 seasons than Kessel.

You have a point with the playoff production however.

yeah, I just think Kessel is a bad example, like I said 90% of the other finesse wingers yes, but Phil, nope.