Prospect Info: The 2021 Entry NHL Draft Thread

[henchman21]

What’s the Lucius injury anyway?

I don’t have any favorites in this draft class yet. I’d lean Johnson perhaps, he gives good effort on the defensive end, he just needs strength and polishing.

Knee injury... I've heard MCL and meniscus, don't really know anymore details than that or if that is actually true. He's skating again so he should almost be in the clear now.

 

[The Abusement Park]

But y'all can say it whatever way you want. I'd rather not hear Pierre say it.

You mean the correct way

 

[henchman21]

Time to bump this thread.

Luke Hughes is putting to rest some of the offensive questions in his game.

Matthew Samoskevich is rocketing up boards with his play... could sneak into the 1st.

Samu Salminen is going to start building up hype. More so if U18s happen.

 

[Richard88]

Time to bump this thread.

Luke Hughes is putting to rest some of the offensive questions in his game.

Matthew Samoskevich is rocketing up boards with his play... could sneak into the 1st.

Samu Salminen is going to start building up hype. More so if U18s happen.

You mentioned in the prospects thread that Avs should take the best C available when they pick. Assuming that Avs pick in the 25-32 range who do you think are the C's to take a closer look at that will go in that range?

 

[S E P H]

NHL is also considering delaying this draft until 2022 so these prospects, especially the ones in the CHL can actually showcase their talent. That would be weird to have the 2021 and 2022 draft take place at the same time. However, it's a tricky situation considering this is going to be Kraken's first draft to get some much needed youth for the future of their squad.

 

[Cake Malar]

NHL is also considering delaying this draft until 2022 so these prospects, especially the ones in the CHL can actually showcase their talent. That would be weird to have the 2021 and 2022 draft take place at the same time. However, it's a tricky situation considering this is going to be Kraken's first draft to get some much needed youth for the future of their squad.

Will it have that much of an affect on Seattle? Maybe if they got lucky with their first pick in this draft this season. And from what I've read it doesn't seem like anyone from this draft is going to be ready to step in immediately. I actually think it could be a great thing for Seattle for this draft to be pushed back. They might have two great prospects stepping in immediately in their second season depending on how bad they are in their 1st season.

 

[John Mandalorian]

2021 NHL Mock Draft | Lines.com

I haven’t really looked into 2021 prospects much but earlier this morning I found this.

BTW, Yannick SP was hired by the Canadiens so, unfortunately, DD Channel is likely on hold.

 

[henchman21]

You mentioned in the prospects thread that Avs should take the best C available when they pick. Assuming that Avs pick in the 25-32 range who do you think are the C's to take a closer look at that will go in that range?

With this season, that is completely random at this point. We have players in Canada and US that haven't played a game in a year. Basically any center outside of Johnson and Berniers could end up in the late 20s. So Bolduc, McTavish, Dean, Salminen, Korczak, etc could all be there... but the tape really isn't there to compare. Many of the center prospects in the CHL become projections as a lot played wing last season and would have transitioned to center this year. I think we see a lot of Q, US based, and Euros go higher than normal just simply due to them actually playing games (we will see if the WHL and OHL actually start playing).

 

[dmac7719]

Will it have that much of an affect on Seattle? Maybe if they got lucky with their first pick in this draft this season. And from what I've read it doesn't seem like anyone from this draft is going to be ready to step in immediately. I actually think it could be a great thing for Seattle for this draft to be pushed back. They might have two great prospects stepping in immediately in their second season depending on how bad they are in their 1st season.

Vegas were able to trade for 2 of their cornerstone players due to using 2 of the players they drafted in their first draft. Now, I highly doubt teams will be giving Seattle the draft stock that Vegas was able to extract out of the league. But Seattle wouldn't necessary need the specific player(s) they drafted to make their team. Those players can be used as assets to get better NHL talent now.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don’t believe it about delaying the draft a full year. Not sure why Dreger put it that plainly because a lot of different ideas are getting floated, he’s carrying mail for someone. Maybe the handful of orgs it would benefit are pushing it, it’s certainly not for the greater good.

We were told that free agency and the draft have to go hand in hand last summer and now all of a sudden it doesn’t lol. Seattle needing to get prospects is another thing.

Plus the majority of top prospects are playing somewhere. Only 2-4 projected first rounders (depending on source) haven’t played yet. There’s talk of the U18 going on bubbles in Texas and a larger prospect showcase later on, perhaps in June.

Delaying the draft delays development time, pro contact and coaching, no summer dev camps or training camp in the fall, they can’t sign contracts or get paid.

The scouts I see say tracking two classes at once isn’t going to work, that doesn’t make their life any easier when they get into the rinks. Have to wonder if a couple video resistant orgs are pushing this so that they don’t get left behind if they can’t adapt.

I think A/B rated prospects should be able to individually apply for deferral if they played less than a certain amount of games due to their team not playing and they feel like it benefits them to wait. There should be no one size fits all approach to this, it’s insanity.

 

[Balthazar]

Friedman was first to talk about delaying the draft for one year. Now it's Dreger (a competitor) so obviously they hear it from somewhere.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don’t believe it about delaying the draft a full year. Not sure why Dreger put it that plainly because a lot of different ideas are getting floated, he’s carrying mail for someone. Maybe the handful of orgs it would benefit are pushing it, it’s certainly not for the greater good.

We were told that free agency and the draft have to go hand in hand last summer and now all of a sudden it doesn’t lol. Seattle needing to get prospects is another thing.

Plus the majority of top prospects are playing somewhere. Only 2-4 projected first rounders (depending on source) haven’t played yet. There’s talk of the U18 going on bubbles in Texas and a larger prospect showcase later on, perhaps in June.

Delaying the draft delays development time, pro contact and coaching, no summer dev camps or training camp in the fall, they can’t sign contracts or get paid.

The scouts I see say tracking two classes at once isn’t going to work, that doesn’t make their life any easier when they get into the rinks. Have to wonder if a couple video resistant orgs are pushing this so that they don’t get left behind if they can’t adapt.

I think A/B rated prospects should be able to individually apply for deferral if they played less than a certain amount of games due to their team not playing and they feel like it benefits them to wait. There should be no one size fits all approach to this, it’s insanity.

Well, there’s also the of draft picks being devalued. Pittsburgh and Arizona don’t have firsts. If the draft is pushed back a year, they could stand to benefit by using their 2022 draft pick for trades instead of the 2021 pick (which they don’t have).

There also may be teams that want to use their 2021 picks as trade bait this year and see it as not losing that much if two drafts are held at the same time.

It also means that Arizona isn’t truly being punished for loss of the 2021 pick.

My guess is that there’s a lot of grass roots squawking. Canadians are whining about how it’s unfair for “their boys” to not be playing when Euros are.

In that regard, the Avs might be one of those teams because they’re not really known for scouting in Europe. I don’t think Dreger is carrying water for the Avs though.

It’s more problematic to wait a year and do 2o21 and 2022 at the same time. It creates more issues of unfairness in the league and between the teams. It sucks for CHL players but the NHL didn’t force them to stop playing.

 

[henchman21]

I don’t believe it about delaying the draft a full year. Not sure why Dreger put it that plainly because a lot of different ideas are getting floated, he’s carrying mail for someone. Maybe the handful of orgs it would benefit are pushing it, it’s certainly not for the greater good.

We were told that free agency and the draft have to go hand in hand last summer and now all of a sudden it doesn’t lol. Seattle needing to get prospects is another thing.

Plus the majority of top prospects are playing somewhere. Only 2-4 projected first rounders (depending on source) haven’t played yet. There’s talk of the U18 going on bubbles in Texas and a larger prospect showcase later on, perhaps in June.

Delaying the draft delays development time, pro contact and coaching, no summer dev camps or training camp in the fall, they can’t sign contracts or get paid.

The scouts I see say tracking two classes at once isn’t going to work, that doesn’t make their life any easier when they get into the rinks. Have to wonder if a couple video resistant orgs are pushing this so that they don’t get left behind if they can’t adapt.

I think A/B rated prospects should be able to individually apply for deferral if they played less than a certain amount of games due to their team not playing and they feel like it benefits them to wait. There should be no one size fits all approach to this, it’s insanity.

Anybody saying that is spouting complete nonsense. Going back a bit... prior to 1995, all players had to opt into the draft and it was fairly common that players waited until their 19-21 year old seasons to opt in. After 1995 CBA, players 19+ were automatically opted into the draft. Most 18 year olds opted in, but those that wanted to play college couldn't opt in without losing their eligibility. The NCAA wiped that dumb rule in 2004, and in 2005 all player 18+ are automatically opted in. That is a long way of saying that this multiple class problem used to exist throughout hockey. Now it could be argued it screwed with evaluations and that has gotten better since 2005... but it can be made to work and it has many times before.

That said it would take another CBA amendment to do this, and I personally don't think it should be pushed a year. There are some old school teams that don't believe in video much that will struggle in this draft (Penguins will get annihilated), but there really isn't much of a choice outside of it.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

NHL is also considering delaying this draft until 2022 so these prospects, especially the ones in the CHL can actually showcase their talent. That would be weird to have the 2021 and 2022 draft take place at the same time. However, it's a tricky situation considering this is going to be Kraken's first draft to get some much needed youth for the future of their squad.

So is the draft going to be 14 rounds

NVM, probably makes more sense to just separate the pools into two but take place at the same time.

 

[Richard88]

Well, there’s also the of draft picks being devalued. Pittsburgh and Arizona don’t have firsts. If the draft is pushed back a year, they could stand to benefit by using their 2022 draft pick for trades instead of the 2021 pick (which they don’t have).

There also may be teams that want to use their 2021 picks as trade bait this year and see it as not losing that much if two drafts are held at the same time.

It also means that Arizona isn’t truly being punished for loss of the 2021 pick.

My guess is that there’s a lot of grass roots squawking. Canadians are whining about how it’s unfair for “their boys” to not be playing when Euros are.

In that regard, the Avs might be one of those teams because they’re not really known for scouting in Europe. I don’t think Dreger is carrying water for the Avs though.

It’s more problematic to wait a year and do 2o21 and 2022 at the same time. It creates more issues of unfairness in the league and between the teams. It sucks for CHL players but the NHL didn’t force them to stop playing.

Pushing the 2021 draft back a year doesn't mean that it would be skipped entirely. The same picks that apply for the 2021 draft would still apply for the same draft a year later, since there would be two drafts held in parallel probably a few days apart: one "2021" draft for 19 year olds, and then the 2022 draft for 18 year olds as normal.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Pushing the 2021 draft back a year doesn't mean that it would be skipped entirely. The same picks that apply for the 2021 draft would still apply for the same draft a year later, since there would be two drafts held in parallel probably a few days apart: one "2021" draft for 19 year olds, and then the 2022 draft for 18 year olds as normal.

I know that. Did I say something that made this unclear? I thought pretty much every issue I highlighted was relative to the two drafts being at around the same time.

It means picks are devalued as trade items. It means a loss of utility for the 2021 picks. It might also create unhealthy bench marks for trade value.

Let’s say there’s a player who’s available for trade. Normally that player would get a first. But because the two drafts are around the same time, that player might now cost two firsts (since one gm rationalizes it and says “we still have our pick next year”). They should avoid scenarios that create dangerous precedents because one gm is desperate/stupid.

I see this as being similar to time value money (a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow) in terms of the utility of these picks. But there are the other issues that make it problematic in terms of fairness and bad practice.

 

[Richard88]

I know that. Did I say something that made this unclear? I thought pretty much every issue I highlighted was relative to the two drafts being at around the same time.

It means picks are devalued as trade items. It means a loss of utility for the 2021 picks. It might also create unhealthy bench marks for trade value.

Let’s say there’s a player who’s available for trade. Normally that player would get a first. But because the two drafts are around the same time, that player might now cost two firsts (since one gm rationalizes it and says “we still have our pick next year”). They should avoid scenarios that create dangerous precedents because one gm is desperate/stupid.

I see this as being similar to time value money (a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow) in terms of the utility of these picks. But there are the other issues that make it problematic in terms of fairness and bad practice.

I don't think anything changes really. To elaborate I'll quote your earlier post:

Well, there’s also the of draft picks being devalued. Pittsburgh and Arizona don’t have firsts. If the draft is pushed back a year, they could stand to benefit by using their 2022 draft pick for trades instead of the 2021 pick (which they don’t have).

If anything 2021 draft picks would be even more valuable, as they would be spent on 19 year olds who are more mature and physically developed, decreasing the chances of selecting a bust.

Teams can already use their 2022 draft picks for trades now so I'm not sure why that would make a difference.

There also may be teams that want to use their 2021 picks as trade bait this year and see it as not losing that much if two drafts are held at the same time.

A 2021 1st rounder is still a 1st round pick regardless of when the draft is held. Nothing is lost.

It also means that Arizona isn’t truly being punished for loss of the 2021 pick.

Why does it mean that? Whether the draft is held in 2021 or 2022 is irrelevant. Either way Arizona lose a 1st which would otherwise by a high-end prospect they can add to their roster.

 

[McMetal]

Wallstedt would be the dream, but he almost certainly will go in the top 15 like Knight and Askarov did. Given that we didn't take a goalie at all last year, it seems like it's time to infuse that pipeline with some new talent with a higher pick.

I'm curious about Cossa, out of the WHL. If our first is late enough, is he worth a swing? Big boy and posted really good numbers last season. I see him ranked right around the beginning of the 2nd. Otherwise we don't have a pick to use on a goalie until the end of the third, which is right around the point when all of the top goalies are gone.

 

[Metallo]

I just learned that there is a team named Winnipeg Ice in the WHL. That means that Winnipeg has and NHL, AHL and WHL. This is amazing! They are so lucky.

 

[Hasbro]

I just learned that there is a team named Winnipeg Ice in the WHL. That means that Winnipeg has and NHL, AHL and WHL. This is amazing! They are so lucky.

A first said about anyone who lives in Winnipeg.

 

[Metallo]

A first said about anyone who lives in Winnipeg.

I never said they were lucky to be in Winnipeg, just that they have 3 teams.

 

[John Mandalorian]

If anything 2021 draft picks would be even more valuable, as they would be spent on 19 year olds who are more mature and physically developed, decreasing the chances of selecting a bust.

I disagree entirely here. The players for the 2021 draft will be a year older. That's true in either case. Except, the team will have lost a year of control - or at least have it delayed. Those players go a year without the team having a say in their path of progression

Teams can already use their 2022 draft picks for trades now so I'm not sure why that would make a difference.

The bigger issue are the 2021 picks. Those are devalued because the team that would be taking those in trade will have to wait an extra full year to utilize those picks. Meanwhile the team that gives them up in trade, gets the asset back immediately.

And by having the two drafts so proximate to each other, one draft devalues the other. They become less precious.

A 2021 1st rounder is still a 1st round pick regardless of when the draft is held. Nothing is lost.

Not true. As I mentioned, the loss (or delayed) utility makes it less valuable. The two drafts so proximate to each other cheapens their trade value. And like I said before, there could be a scenario where one team trades both firsts whereas in the past it would have been only one 1st.

Why does it mean that? Whether the draft is held in 2021 or 2022 is irrelevant. Either way Arizona lose a 1st which would otherwise by a high-end prospect they can add to their roster.

They are being punished less because no team has a first round pick in 2021 (if they do this). They're being forced to sacrifice less than they would have been if other teams had the utilization of using their first round picks a year earlier.

 

[Matt Roberts]

I don't think anything changes really. To elaborate I'll quote your earlier post:


If anything 2021 draft picks would be even more valuable, as they would be spent on 19 year olds who are more mature and physically developed, decreasing the chances of selecting a bust.

Teams can already use their 2022 draft picks for trades now so I'm not sure why that would make a difference.

A 2021 1st rounder is still a 1st round pick regardless of when the draft is held. Nothing is lost.


Why does it mean that? Whether the draft is held in 2021 or 2022 is irrelevant. Either way Arizona lose a 1st which would otherwise by a high-end prospect they can add to their roster.

It would make draft day trades more interesting. With the order of both drafts known at the time of the 21 draft, I could see teams in the back of round 1 being much more willing to package both 1st round picks to move up. There's no risk of the 22 pick being more valuable than expected and, as you mentioned, there's a pretty decent chance they'd get a more mature player ready to compete for a roster spot on day 1.

For example, if the Avs could package multiple 1sts for an NHL ready bottom 6 wing with top 6 potential, that may be hard to pass up.

 

[John Mandalorian]

It would make draft day trades more interesting. With the order of both drafts known at the time of the 21 draft, I could see teams in the back of round 1 being much more willing to package both 1st round picks to move up. There's no risk of the 22 pick being more valuable than expected and, as you mentioned, there's a pretty decent chance they'd get a more mature player ready to compete for a roster spot on day 1.

For example, if the Avs could package multiple 1sts for an NHL ready bottom 6 wing with top 6 potential, that may be hard to pass up.

But if you do that, you risk setting precedent for subsequent years. An asset that used to cost 1st will probably now cost two since teams will remember the cost and not that it was a wonky draft.

 

[Matt Roberts]

But if you do that, you risk setting precedent for subsequent years. An asset that used to cost 1st will probably now cost two since teams will remember the cost and not that it was a wonky draft.

Trade values constantly fluctuate. You wouldn't be setting a precedent any more than the Lindros trade sets a precedent today. What it does do is provide more certainty to the asset, so it's easier for both teams to properly value it.

And I'm not saying anyone should give 2 1sts for an asset that would normally cost 1. That's stupid, regardless of the year. But it's much easier for a team to part with, say, the known 26th pick of the 2022 draft instead of a mystery box that could be #1 or it could be #32. However, when we're talking that 2021 draft specifically, it could make sense for the Avs to trade two bottom 5 1st round picks for a single pick in the middle of the round for the right player.