Skip2myBordyloo
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- Apr 7, 2010
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Prospect Info: The 2017 NHL Entry Draft: Part IV
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tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Yeah, the bench press is tough to judge on its own but he was weak in other tests too. He's had what two months to prepare, he should have known not being able to do a pull-up would get negative attention. Like I said, it just means Mittlestadt has further to go but doesn't take away from his skill level. He's never really left home to play either, most kids either moved away for where they play or even attended a hockey academy when they were younger. So staying in the cocoon in Minnesota for school might not be the best idea. When he finally turns pro he's going to have massive culture shock. But a team is going to know this and work with him on it.
Pacman33
#teamZ
- Feb 9, 2017
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Think thats kinda strong. Im not high on makar because i feel like its a huge risk and we cant afford to completely miss on a pick that high, but i still will want to watch the team. I look forward to watching mack, rants, zads and jost coming more and more into their own as hockey players
Avsblitzkrieg
Registered User
See I'm not seeing it. Seems sakic is favoring smaller guys... Jost over brown . Just as an example. Not to mention skating which is his biggest knock and something sakic seems to favor. While im not a big fan of Heiskanen, it seems the player the front office would like
landy92mack29
Registered User
The only sub 6 foot player the Avs have drafted in the first 4 rounds since 2013 is Jost
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
We all have our preferences but the only thing that would get me mad is getting rid of picks and prospects. At the end of the day we are adding talent to our org and that's a good thing.
His foot speed doesn't quite matchup, but I think they'd like his size and play in the defensive zone. He seems like a Rantanen-type pick to me.
JoemAvs
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2011
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Well said (As long as it is not Owen Tippett)
.I don't think we can say with confidence what the "Avs type" is after Roy is gone and if the rumors about him not liking the Jost pick are true.
I mean I recall Sakic gushing over Josts U18 performance.
Well Heiskanen wasn't half bad at it either...
I agree that Vilardis skating might put them off but then I remember Sakic and Roy gushing over MacKinnons Memorial Cup performance and how they love players who shine when it really matters.
Like Vilardi did in the Memorial Cup....
Oh and Sakic also always talks about getting younger and faster. That Mittelstadt guy is rumored to be pretty fast...
Tippett also is not slow either and neither is Makar.
Oh and didn't they really love Rantanens combination of size and skill? Maybe similar to Glass?
In the end I can say with a confidence that I have no clue what this scouting staff post-Roy (who clearly had a thing for size) likes.
The only thing that I know about them is that they still haven't quite adapted to the modern NHL or otherwise they wouldn't have spent a 3rd rounder on Josh Anderson...
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tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Well here's my take on preference, and I know this is all perception/conjecture but it is something I think about a lot. And obviously there's a first time for everything, things are a trend until they aren't, yada yada all those caveats.
As much as there's this perception of big changes at certain points (Sakic in, Hepple in, Roy out) it's still largely the same FO, the same scouts, the same decision makers. Roy seemed to have been marginalized at the last draft anyway and his key influence in drafts seemed to have been more particular players and from certain teams than X type. Moving from Pracey to Hepple seemed to loosen them up a bit on in taking guys high in other leagues such as Finland, BCHL, Russians. But they exactly haven't had like an Anaheim or Tampa draft where they are taking a bunch of these guys with top 100 picks either. I think they are comfortable taking a diversity of guys in the first where they can get a lot of info on the player, high skilled, it's not a risk really to broaden their horizons there. And later round picks are flyers so it's just whoever a scout pitches at that point. I think their mid rounds have maintained "safer".
As far as trends, they really haven't taken an exceptional skater in the top 100 since Mack and Bigras. All the others have been adequate or needs some work in the skating department. So for a team with the perception of speed, they haven't prioritized it.
As Landymack said no players 5'11 and under other than Jost in the first 4 rounds. And no defensemen shorter than 6'1 in the first four rounds since Barrie. If they were going to start getting smaller puck movers in the org I'd think they'd try some in the lower rounds first but like I said, they seem to have more an open mind in the first if they are really sold on someone.
And yes, they seem to love character, captains are catnip, winning and playoff and international performance are big to them. They also seem to love to go for one guy that was injured most of the year, like they think they've found a hidden gem.
As much as there's this perception of big changes at certain points (Sakic in, Hepple in, Roy out) it's still largely the same FO, the same scouts, the same decision makers. Roy seemed to have been marginalized at the last draft anyway and his key influence in drafts seemed to have been more particular players and from certain teams than X type. Moving from Pracey to Hepple seemed to loosen them up a bit on in taking guys high in other leagues such as Finland, BCHL, Russians. But they exactly haven't had like an Anaheim or Tampa draft where they are taking a bunch of these guys with top 100 picks either. I think they are comfortable taking a diversity of guys in the first where they can get a lot of info on the player, high skilled, it's not a risk really to broaden their horizons there. And later round picks are flyers so it's just whoever a scout pitches at that point. I think their mid rounds have maintained "safer".
As far as trends, they really haven't taken an exceptional skater in the top 100 since Mack and Bigras. All the others have been adequate or needs some work in the skating department. So for a team with the perception of speed, they haven't prioritized it.
As Landymack said no players 5'11 and under other than Jost in the first 4 rounds. And no defensemen shorter than 6'1 in the first four rounds since Barrie. If they were going to start getting smaller puck movers in the org I'd think they'd try some in the lower rounds first but like I said, they seem to have more an open mind in the first if they are really sold on someone.
And yes, they seem to love character, captains are catnip, winning and playoff and international performance are big to them. They also seem to love to go for one guy that was injured most of the year, like they think they've found a hidden gem.
- Apr 25, 2006
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- Apr 25, 2006
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I don't mind Makar. On the other hand, if the AVS draft a forward and Heiskanen is available...
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
I don't mind Makar. On the other hand, if the AVS draft a forward and Heiskanen is available...
I want to believe the FO cannot be that dumb...again... but every time, we always take the damn forward.
SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
I find this absolutely hilarious. Prior to the U18 Heiskanen wasn't on anyone's radar for the Avs pick. Now it's "Heiskanen or we riot!!!!!!!!!".
Vilardi and Glass would be absolutely fantastic picks, especially with how there's question marks with all the top picks this year.
Completely agreed.
I mean, I'm on the Heiskanen bandwagon and even want them to take Makar if Heiskanen is gone. But at the end of the day Vilardi and Glass would both be great picks also.
It's not like we're really deep on Offense. We need major help everywhere. Both forward and Defense.
Especially if by some miracle the Avs are actually able to get Hanifin, Chabot, or McAvoy for Duchene. Then the need for Offense becomes the #1 priority.
- Apr 25, 2006
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Only question mark on Heiskanen is he was ranked ~12 or so before the U18 and now he's top 5. It's not even a legit question mark because he's younger than most, stuff like that had to be expected.
At 6'1 he isn't even undersized anymore. So yeah, you shouldn't find that hilarious because it's not.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
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I don't think there's anything really wrong with that. Maybe Heiskanen's U18 performance shouldn't be such a big factor but it's not insignificant either. It's also one of the few times most people in NA got to see him play. A lot of the focus prior to that on this board was on Patrick and Hischier as well.
I don't know about rioting but I'd be disappointed if Heiskanen is there and the Avs passed on him. I don't care where he started the season, he finished strong and appears to be a consensus top five player in this draft now. If he goes #3 then there's not much you can do and I'll be happy with one of the other guys.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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Yep. Up until Heiskanen started to rise, most of us had resigned ourselves to getting a forward ever since Liljegren fell out of our range. Now one presents himself in our range, and everybody is going all in, as if not getting him would be a catastrophic loss (or worse, as if picking him would solve all our problems).
If we do trade Duchene for defense, we will have a massive hole in our top six, and for a team that's already near the bottom of the league in GF, that's a major problem. Everybody who is clamoring for Heiskanen this year and Dahlin next are soon going to be facing the problem of having nobody to score goals. Top six forwards are a legit need, and the fact that Glass and Vilardi have two-way upside helps their case a lot.
My point is, there's more than one way to proceed forward and build a winner. This rebuild doesn't rise or fall on whether we pick Heiskanen or Vilardi with 4OA this year.
- Apr 25, 2006
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What part of "top 6 wingers are easy to obtain outside the draft while top pair defenders are impossible to get" is so hard to understand? You need to draft the defense. NEED TO.
Top 6 wingers? Many of them available on the UFA market each year and GM's are putting them on the trade market all the time (Eberle is available, BTW).
We have no top pairing D in the system, but we have Rants, Mack, Jost and Landy upfront for the future already. That's 4 out of 6! Quit talking like it's as important for this team to use its 1st on a forward than a defenseman. It's not. Not close.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Just to play devils advocate...what if we trade Dutchy for Sergachev, Landy for Faulk and Barrie for Drouin. Then we'd have a prime aged #1 who's younger than EJ, and a potential #1 nearing the cusp of NHL action. Would you still crucify the team for drafting Glass or Vilardi over Heiskanen if our future roster looked something like:
Morrison - MacK - Drouin
Vilardi - Jost - Rantanen
Greer - Compher - ghetto
Nieto - Soderberg - Beaudin
Nantel / Henley
Sergachev - Faulk
Zadorov - Johnson
Bigras - Meloche
Boikov - Mironov/Clurman
???
Morrison - MacK - Drouin
Vilardi - Jost - Rantanen
Greer - Compher - ghetto
Nieto - Soderberg - Beaudin
Nantel / Henley
Sergachev - Faulk
Zadorov - Johnson
Bigras - Meloche
Boikov - Mironov/Clurman
???
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McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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If you read these boards at all, you know that MacK is a bust and Landy is falling apart.
In all seriousness, though, you are putting way, way too much emphasis on one pick in one draft year as if that's our only pick in the last ever NHL Entry draft. This will be a multi-year process of rebuilding, and there is not just one narrow path to victory. Maybe we trade Duchene for Hanifin and can then afford to spend our 4OA on a forward. Maybe we end up with an extra first, and can draft Vilardi+Valimaki and get our D that way. Or Meloche explodes and we get our top pair EJ replacement from within. Or we grab Glass this year for our 2C and Dahlin/McIsaac next year for that top pair monster.
Your single minded obsession with what we do with the 4OA this year as if that's the linchpin on which this entire team rises and falls for the next ten years misses so many points.
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
You can't fix something if you never spend the top draft resources on it. It is literally ****ing insane to continuously draft forwards over and over again and ignore the defense in the top of the first.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
*shrug* Zadorov-Johnson gave us a legit first pairing for the first time since Foote-Blake; and neither was drafted by the Avs.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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Yes, and that's why Pittsburgh drafted Letang, Maata, and Dumoulin with top ten picks, and didn't do anything cosmically stupid like spending consecutive top 3 picks on Malkin, Crosby, and J. Staal like a bunch of chumps. That explains why they've never won anything, after they so botched their rebuild years by squandering top picks.
There's more than one way to build a winner.
landy92mack29
Registered User
There are far more elite D-men taken outside the top 10 than inside but the vast majority of the elite forwards are taken inside the top 10. Then there's the issue of no D-man in this draft class having realistic #1 upside(personally don't even think realistic top pairing). Going ahead the Avs have have 5 of the 6 d spots filled while 4 of 6 forward spots and Landeskog showing some red flags. The only need for the Avs d-core is an elite #1 which they could get in a Duchene trade or 2018 draft as there isn't one in this draft realistically. Now someone could exceed expectations and become one but it's just as likely a Valimaki/Foote/not top 5 worthy at the time of the draft becomes one as a Heiskanen or Makar. And even if we were to swing for the fences this draft to get a #1 Makar is the guy not Heiskanen
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