The 2015-2016 Blues Discussion Thread - Part I ‎

EastonBlues22

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Nov 25, 2003
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Written right after I said I wanted Lehtera as a 3rd line center playing only 55 games a year. I have also stated several times that Lehtera, while a good player, holds us back because he is a not good enough scorer to be second line or near good enough defensively to be shut-down and is holding Tarasenko back due to "chemistry". Guess that's evidence someone skips my posts :laugh:
I definitely miss some posts here and there. Being an admin doesn't always leave as much time to browse this forum as I would like. :laugh:

Saw that Lehtera was generating some discussion earlier this morning, so I just dropped in a quick reply. It is a bit humorous that it was right after your post, now that I've read it.
 

2 Minute Minor

Hi Keeba!
Jun 3, 2008
15,615
124
Temple, Texas
The gyst of this forum the past few weeks: the pre-existing respect I have for a poster seems to run in inverse proportion to their degree of confidence in Armstrong and their optimism (or lack of it) for the coming season.

Armstrong, "Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! Oops, wrong hat!"
 

Captain Creampuff

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Sep 10, 2012
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The Hawks have won 3 cups without a #2C. They just won with Brad Richards. So I'm not exactly sure why people are saying Lehtera can't cut it if he improves his conditioning and Stastny becomes a #1C between Schwartz and Tarasenko and pick up another goal scoring winger like Eberle, Okposo, Semin, etc.
 

EastonBlues22

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The Hawks have won 3 cups without a #2C. They just won with Brad Richards. So I'm not exactly sure why people are saying Lehtera can't cut it if he improves his conditioning and Stastny becomes a #1C between Schwartz and Tarasenko and pick up another goal scoring winger like Eberle, Okposo, Semin, etc.
The Blues don't have Kane carrying their 2nd line.

Lehtera had a huge drop in play after the ASB. One offseason of "improved conditioning" likely isn't going to cure 4+ months of sub-par play.
 

Captain Creampuff

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Sep 10, 2012
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The Blues don't have Kane carrying their 2nd line.

Lehtera had a huge drop in play after the ASB. One offseason of "improved conditioning" likely isn't going to cure 4+ months of sub-par play.

I'm glad conditioning didn't help Tarasenko with 4+ months of sub-par play. I'm really interested in hearing your opinion on what this team needs to do in order to succeed. Who do you go after? Who do you move? Who plays where and what ice time are they getting?
 

Majorityof1

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Mar 6, 2014
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I'm glad conditioning didn't help Tarasenko with 4+ months of sub-par play. I'm really interested in hearing your opinion on what this team needs to do in order to succeed. Who do you go after? Who do you move? Who plays where and what ice time are they getting?

Tarasenko was also 22 years old. Lehtera is 27. Its only 5 years but an important 5 years. Tarasenko was still developing physically as well as developing as a player. Lehtera has reached what should be his prime physical peak and has years of habits ingrained. If he dedicates himself to conditioning 100%, it will make a big difference. Not the same as it would make with a 22 year old though. It just won't.

As for what to do, the issue is that there are no easy answers. We have squandered too many futures and hired the wrong coach. Someone saying, "that's not the answer" doesn't mean they know the answer. There might not be one. They just know that's not it. My answer is to do a major retooling and trade our tradable vets for young players that can help us win in a year or two while writing off the coming season with Hitch. Not going to happen, but that is what I think is best long term.

Not intending to answer for Easton, but that is my take on it.
 

Captain Creampuff

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Sep 10, 2012
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I'm just curious on Easton's opinion on what direction we need to take because he is a very insightful poster. It's just so hard being a fan of this team.
 

Dbrownss

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Jan 5, 2014
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The Blues don't have Kane carrying their 2nd line.

Lehtera had a huge drop in play after the ASB. One offseason of "improved conditioning" likely isn't going to cure 4+ months of sub-par play.

He also had the concussion around the same time. He dedicated himself to get bigger to play in the NHL, he added a good bit of muscle to get to 215lbs (?). So I wouldn't be suprised to see him put max effort into conditioning.

The biggest knock I have on the guy is that he's a poor finisher. Now in his defense, I noticed he was putting an effort to raising the puck. Towards the end of the season, he absolutely buried a few with authority from in close. If he was a better finisher, Tarasenko would have made him a 25 goal scorer
 

EastonBlues22

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I'm glad conditioning didn't help Tarasenko with 4+ months of sub-par play. I'm really interested in hearing your opinion on what this team needs to do in order to succeed. Who do you go after? Who do you move? Who plays where and what ice time are they getting?
That's a lot of questions that don't have simple answers, so I'm not going to try to compile it all into one post. A search of my post history will show you my general opinions on a lot of those topics. I know I've at least touched on the last question today in another thread.

It's hard to formulate a specific "the Blues should do this" plan because we simply don't know a lot of things that Armstrong knows. How much of Bouwmeester's decline in play last year was due to injury? What sort of numbers are the Backes camp looking for in an extension? What players are being shopped by other teams, and what are the asking prices? What's being offered for the names that we have available? What's the projected budget short and long-term? Etc.

We can guess at some of those things, but others we're completely in the dark on.

Generally speaking, I think my views on a lot of those topics (Armstrong, Hitchcock, team needs, expendable assets, etc.) are fairly moderate relative to the other posters here. Eberle is one of the few specific discussion points where I find myself outside what I feel like is the consensus opinion, but I have reasons for what I believe, so I might as well share them. (Lehtera is another, but to a lesser extent.)

If others disagree with what I'm saying, that's fine by me. I'm not here to campaign for an agenda, and I'm not quite foolish enough to think that all my opinions are right. I just enjoy having a thoughtful exchange of ideas.
 

EastonBlues22

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He also had the concussion around the same time. He dedicated himself to get bigger to play in the NHL, he added a good bit of muscle to get to 215lbs (?). So I wouldn't be suprised to see him put max effort into conditioning.

The biggest knock I have on the guy is that he's a poor finisher. Now in his defense, I noticed he was putting an effort to raising the puck. Towards the end of the season, he absolutely buried a few with authority from in close. If he was a better finisher, Tarasenko would have made him a 25 goal scorer
Majorityof1 hit on a key point below with regards to Lehtera's age. If you're not already there physically (or at least close) at age 27, it takes more time to make big changes than if you're in your early 20s for most people.

Also, some people simply don't condition as well as others, regardless of the effort they put in. If Lehtera is behind the conditioning curve, that could be part of the reason as well. If it is, there's not all that much he can do about it.

I think it's reasonable to expect Lehtera to improve on last year. I'm just skeptical of assuming his level of play when the playoffs roll around will be what we need it to be. If we remake the roster into a more traditional two scoring line model with him as our #2 center and he's ineffective, we're back to being a 1 line team. We all know that's not going to cut it, so it seems preferable to have him as our #3 center this year until we have a better idea of what we can count on from him come playoff time.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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It's why I think Plekanec would make sense as someone to add. An easy fit into our system and he adds speed and quickness up the middle and he's not afraid to shoot as he is almost always over 200 shots. We need speed up the middle and we can't bank on Lehtera being a full-time 2nd line center. We can't have 3 centers with average at best skating ability.
 

EastonBlues22

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I think Plekanec would be a good fit here, but I think Backes is better, and that's almost universally who Montreal would want in return. We might get a + out of MTL, but I don't think it would be a big enough + to make it worth our while. Basically, I think that trade helps MTL more than it helps the Blues.

If we're set on moving Backes, I'd probably rather just take the best pick/prospect package on the table.

We could always dump Berglund and look into taking Hagelin off NYR's hands (or maybe Grabner off NYI's hands if they'll eat salary, or some similar move) if we want to make upgrading the speed on the 3rd line a priority. I think either guy would do a credible job on a line with Backes and Jaskin.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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While I agree Backes is better and if we go for Plekanec, it'll be sort of an all-in type move with his age. That in itself is enough of a concern for me for it not to be plan A. If we get a 2nd round pick thrown in, then it won't be as bad.

I think style-wise, we'd have an improvement for next season. I know that doesn't sound like it makes a whole lot of sense and it is risky, but have more speed up the middle, more of a shooting mentality and more natural distribution talent, I think we'd be a more dangerous team.

Getting someone that will be 33 and who hasn't really been a playoff bright-spot either, probably makes it a less than ideal scenario.
 

Meatwagon

Blues=Overrated
Nov 15, 2010
2,258
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Bi-polar Express
The gyst of this forum the past few weeks: the pre-existing respect I have for a poster seems to run in inverse proportion to their degree of confidence in Armstrong and their optimism (or lack of it) for the coming season.

Armstrong, "Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! Oops, wrong hat!"

So I guess I'm at the bottom, because I have very little trust Army can pull off any decent NHL for NHL type trades, which pushes my narrative for a mini rebuild.

And my deepening apathy to the upcoming season if the offseason plays out like I think it will.

That's ok, I guess my pessimism can be a bit grating, hell it is for me too sometimes.
 

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
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Apr 28, 2014
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Guys don't forget that our whipping boy is Berglund. Stick on one guy, easier to follow 'the hype'. So which one is it Lehterä or Berglund?


giphy.gif
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
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Well done on the gif selection....

As for me, I'll stick with Schwartz Stastny Tarasenko through camp and preseason. If there's no indication of top line chemistry, then look at other set ups.
 

simon IC

Moderator
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Sep 8, 2007
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That's a lot of questions that don't have simple answers, so I'm not going to try to compile it all into one post. A search of my post history will show you my general opinions on a lot of those topics. I know I've at least touched on the last question today in another thread.

It's hard to formulate a specific "the Blues should do this" plan because we simply don't know a lot of things that Armstrong knows. How much of Bouwmeester's decline in play last year was due to injury? What sort of numbers are the Backes camp looking for in an extension? What players are being shopped by other teams, and what are the asking prices? What's being offered for the names that we have available? What's the projected budget short and long-term? Etc.

We can guess at some of those things, but others we're completely in the dark on.

Generally speaking, I think my views on a lot of those topics (Armstrong, Hitchcock, team needs, expendable assets, etc.) are fairly moderate relative to the other posters here. Eberle is one of the few specific discussion points where I find myself outside what I feel like is the consensus opinion, but I have reasons for what I believe, so I might as well share them. (Lehtera is another, but to a lesser extent.)

If others disagree with what I'm saying, that's fine by me. I'm not here to campaign for an agenda, and I'm not quite foolish enough to think that all my opinions are right. I just enjoy having a thoughtful exchange of ideas.
IF by that you mean you have zero interest in Jordan Eberle, I am with you. :)
 

2 Minute Minor

Hi Keeba!
Jun 3, 2008
15,615
124
Temple, Texas
So I guess I'm at the bottom, because I have very little trust Army can pull off any decent NHL for NHL type trades, which pushes my narrative for a mini rebuild.

And my deepening apathy to the upcoming season if the offseason plays out like I think it will.

That's ok, I guess my pessimism can be a bit grating, hell it is for me too sometimes.
I was trying to say the reverse of how you read it.
 

tfriede2

Registered User
Aug 8, 2010
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honestly is anyone left here who is optimistic that the Blues are gonna win next year?

:laugh: not with this current roster. It seems like a lot of us are adamant that at least 2 of the 4 veterans (Oshie, Backes, Berglund, Steen) need to go. It's almost unprecedented how united we are as a fan base about it...which of course means we will all probably be disappointed, ha.
 

RORbacon

Registered User
May 14, 2014
3,657
1,974
Central Illinois
honestly is anyone left here who is optimistic that the Blues are gonna win next year?

Yup. I feel they will go further, but all the way, doubtful. If there aren't some major changes this off-season I have to believe that the way this team got embarrassed has to spark some kind of fire in their pathetic *****. (looking at you SOB) We keep saying it was different this year, and boy was it.

In comparison to other years, this team had an extremely favorable match up with an inferior team, and got their ***** handed to them. I'm all for making changes this off-season but if change doesn't happen, I still feel we should see a resurgence from an embarrassed, and hungry team.

But it's DA BLUES. So who the **** knows.
 

KirkOut

EveryoneOut
Nov 23, 2012
14,548
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USA
i always considered myself pretty far to the naively hopeful end of the spectrum, and even I can't see more than 1 or 2 series wins in the future. that loss to minnesota really sucked the life out of me
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
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honestly is anyone left here who is optimistic that the Blues are gonna win next year?

******* aren't going to get me again. I'll enjoy the regular season...but will have zero expectations.

I mean come on!!!! They lost the the Wild and Dooooooooobs!!!! ARRRRRGH!!!!! AND THEN THE BLACKHAWKS WON THE CUP! AGAIN...my god does this suck. Armstrong better absolutely hustle somebody. Like Galchenyuk staight up for Oshie.

/ragerant
 

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