The 2014-2015 Blues Discussion Thread - Part II

[Chojin]

Eklund is the worst. He's about as believable on trades as Jenny McCarthy is on vaccination.

 

[Note Worthy]

I think if we were making a move for an important player(top 6 forward) that it would've happened already. Hitch would want him in camp and preseason games to grow accustomed to the system. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

Exactly. We're way too late for a move at this point. It would have either happened before training camp or it will happen by the trade deadline. This isn't usually a time you see decent size trades.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Top 9 for next year?

Schwartz-Backes-Oshie
Steen-Stastny-Jaskin
Fabbri-Lehtera-Tarasenko

 

[Note Worthy]

Top 9 for next year?

Schwartz-Backes-Oshie
Steen-Stastny-Jaskin
Fabbri-Lehtera-Tarasenko

I don't think that looks bad at all.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I don't think that looks bad at all.

Was debating whether to swap Fabbri and Jaskin but either works for me as well.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

If we are actually talking to Toronto, I don't see us adding any major pieces. I think we'd be looking to move Berglund to open a spot for Fabbri. But I don't believe anything Eklund reports regarding the Blues. The only team he eery gets anything right on is the Flyers.

 

[Thallis]

If we are actually talking to Toronto, I don't see us adding any major pieces. I think we'd be looking to move Berglund to open a spot for Fabbri. But I don't believe anything Eklund reports regarding the Blues. The only team he eery gets anything right on is the Flyers.

I was actually thinking about this last night. I don't think we'd do it so quickly since Berglund has had a really good camp looks much better, and Fabbri still has an unknown element to him for when the real games start up, but it could be an option in during the season if scenarios played out in a certain way.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I don't think we'll be moving Berglund. Frankly, I don't want to either. That's just really the only thing that seems to make sense to me if we are in fact talking to them.

 

[Thallis]

I don't think we'll be moving Berglund. Frankly, I don't want to either. That's just really the only thing that seems to make sense to me if we are in fact talking to them.

At this point, I agree. I've always liked Berglund and think he's going to show a lot of doubters up this season. However, if I'm wrong about that and he's only average, while Fabbri is spectacular to the point where you can't deny him a spot every game in the lineup, that's when you look into it. Obviously, my imagination is running a bit wild right now, but Fabbri really was impressive last night.

 

[Colt 55]

Blues hired Bobby Gainey as consultant.

 

[Meatwagon]

I think some are writing Berglund off too easily. He just got a 3 year deal, with a NTC to boot and has come into camp in the best shape of his still young career. Granted the NTC kicks in during UFA signing period, but it says to me that the Blues are committed to Bergy. Hitch has also penciled him on to the 1st line with his best friend Oshie, I really doubt they want to trade him so soon after looking much improved in camp. It would be terrible to have watched Berglund grow(and struggle) over the last few years just to trade him before he puts it all together. If his fitness level has allowed him to play 20 minutes a night and removing the center responsibility from his plate, I really think we are going to see a Berglund Renaissance this year. I could easily see him back at 25-25 numbers while playing on a top 5 shutdown line this year. Those are extremely valuable players to an organization, not too mention he can spell Lehtera at 3rd line C once he inevitably tires down the stretch.

 

[BlueDream]

We won't trade Berglund right now. The three-year deal gives us enough time to deal him later down the road which may happen if Fabbri and Jaskin make the roster in the next year, not to mention you still have Rattie and Barbashev in the ranks. Something is going to have to budge and frankly he'll really be the only expendable piece in the top 9. None of the other guys will be getting moved any time soon.

 

[Meatwagon]

We won't trade Berglund right now. The three-year deal gives us enough time to deal him later down the road which may happen if Fabbri and Jaskin make the roster in the next year, not to mention you still have Rattie and Barbashev in the ranks. Something is going to have to budge and frankly he'll really be the only expendable piece in the top 9. None of the other guys will be getting moved any time soon.

He has a NTC that kicks in on July 1st, so if we had to trade him it would be sooner than later. But I still don't see us moving him right now.

 

[Oberyn]

If Berglund is moved it will likely be at the draft. Hopefully for a 1st round pick, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[BlueDream]

He has a NTC that kicks in on July 1st, so if we had to trade him it would be sooner than later. But I still don't see us moving him right now.

So we have plenty of time at the end of the season to move him. Or, if we're trading him to a decent team he may just waive his NTC. Players like Heatley have made people think that moving a player with a NTC is near impossible, but it isn't. Some older guys may not want to move, but a young guy like Berglund would probably be okay with it. If the team doesn't want him anymore, then he might as well move on. I don't see an issue there.

If we're adding Jaskin and Fabbri to the team at the start of the 2015 season, then Berglund may be the odd man out.

 

[Chojin]

I will never understand all of you Berglund haters. Stewart I understand, because that dude had garbage possession numbers and was basically useless if he wasn't scoring, which was usually 80% of the season. But Berglund has a positive effect on possession and scores around 20 goals fairly frequently, playing on the third line; players like that don't grow on trees. You know who other teams have as their third line center this year? Here's a sample (with last year's stats, ignoring rookies and guys who were injured most of the year):

Colorado - Danny Briere (13/12/25)
Montreal - Lars Eller (12/14/26)
NYI - Brock Nelson (14/12/26)
Pittsburgh - Brandon Sutter (13/13/26)
St. Louis - Patrik Berglund (14/18/32)
Columbus - Mark Letestu (12/22/34)
Dallas - Cody Eakin (16/19/35)
Arizona - Sam Gagner (10/27/37)
Philadelphia - Vinny Lecavalier (20/17/37)
Calgary - Mikael Backlund (18/21/39)
Chicago - Andrew Shaw (20/19/39)
LA - Mike Richards (11/30/41)
New Jersey - Adam Henrique (25/18/43)
Winnipeg - Matthieu Perrault (18/25/43)
Boston - Carl Soderberg (16/32/48)
Tampa Bay - Tyler Johnson (24/26/50)
Ottawa - David Legwand (14/37/51)

Berglund's numbers don't look that bad when you consider he had a down year and he got barely any PP time. If you look at his career averages (20/21/41), he's right in the middle of the pack. Do you seriously think we'd be able to move up that list with Berglund and a pick?

You might want to replace him with prospects, Fabbri is still unproven and Jaskin can't even hold Berglund's jock at this point. Now, if Berglund eventually becomes a cap casualty due to Frank and others getting raises, and has to be replaced with one of those guys, that's fine. But you don't just give up a 20/20 guy for no reason, especially when he's twice had 50 point seasons and is still just 26.

So can we please stop with the anti-Berglund groupthink? Please?

 

[Boruto]

hey y'all. I have a question i was hoping someone here can answer. Beyond the obvious STL d men, I dunno who to pick in my points only pool. I there are a few regulars on the 3rd pairing that are floating around sub 20 points on a 82 game pace but i also see ian cole who im not familiar with and was going at >20 points on 82 game. Can anyone help me with that?

 

[Meatwagon]

hey y'all. I have a question i was hoping someone here can answer. Beyond the obvious STL d men, I dunno who to pick in my points only pool. I there are a few regulars on the 3rd pairing that are floating around sub 20 points on a 82 game pace but i also see ian cole who im not familiar with and was going at >20 points on 82 game. Can anyone help me with that?

Honestly, I don't think Cole plays even 70 games this year, but 20 pts is what I would consider his current ceiling. He won't see any PP time and will be used in 3rd pairing situations. He could suprise everyone, but even then, that suprise may only be a max of 25 pts.

Hope this helps.

 

[tfriede2]

I will never understand all of you Berglund haters. Stewart I understand, because that dude had garbage possession numbers and was basically useless if he wasn't scoring, which was usually 80% of the season. But Berglund has a positive effect on possession and scores around 20 goals fairly frequently, playing on the third line; players like that don't grow on trees. You know who other teams have as their third line center this year? Here's a sample (with last year's stats, ignoring rookies and guys who were injured most of the year):

Colorado - Danny Briere (13/12/25)
Montreal - Lars Eller (12/14/26)
NYI - Brock Nelson (14/12/26)
Pittsburgh - Brandon Sutter (13/13/26)
St. Louis - Patrik Berglund (14/18/32)
Columbus - Mark Letestu (12/22/34)
Dallas - Cody Eakin (16/19/35)
Arizona - Sam Gagner (10/27/37)
Philadelphia - Vinny Lecavalier (20/17/37)
Calgary - Mikael Backlund (18/21/39)
Chicago - Andrew Shaw (20/19/39)
LA - Mike Richards (11/30/41)
New Jersey - Adam Henrique (25/18/43)
Winnipeg - Matthieu Perrault (18/25/43)
Boston - Carl Soderberg (16/32/48)
Tampa Bay - Tyler Johnson (24/26/50)
Ottawa - David Legwand (14/37/51)

Berglund's numbers don't look that bad when you consider he had a down year and he got barely any PP time. If you look at his career averages (20/21/41), he's right in the middle of the pack. Do you seriously think we'd be able to move up that list with Berglund and a pick?

You might want to replace him with prospects, Fabbri is still unproven and Jaskin can't even hold Berglund's jock at this point. Now, if Berglund eventually becomes a cap casualty due to Frank and others getting raises, and has to be replaced with one of those guys, that's fine. But you don't just give up a 20/20 guy for no reason, especially when he's twice had 50 point seasons and is still just 26.

So can we please stop with the anti-Berglund groupthink? Please?

I don't see any anti-Berglund posts...??

 

[BlueDream]

I will never understand all of you Berglund haters. Stewart I understand, because that dude had garbage possession numbers and was basically useless if he wasn't scoring, which was usually 80% of the season. But Berglund has a positive effect on possession and scores around 20 goals fairly frequently, playing on the third line; players like that don't grow on trees. You know who other teams have as their third line center this year? Here's a sample (with last year's stats, ignoring rookies and guys who were injured most of the year):

Colorado - Danny Briere (13/12/25)
Montreal - Lars Eller (12/14/26)
NYI - Brock Nelson (14/12/26)
Pittsburgh - Brandon Sutter (13/13/26)
St. Louis - Patrik Berglund (14/18/32)
Columbus - Mark Letestu (12/22/34)
Dallas - Cody Eakin (16/19/35)
Arizona - Sam Gagner (10/27/37)
Philadelphia - Vinny Lecavalier (20/17/37)
Calgary - Mikael Backlund (18/21/39)
Chicago - Andrew Shaw (20/19/39)
LA - Mike Richards (11/30/41)
New Jersey - Adam Henrique (25/18/43)
Winnipeg - Matthieu Perrault (18/25/43)
Boston - Carl Soderberg (16/32/48)
Tampa Bay - Tyler Johnson (24/26/50)
Ottawa - David Legwand (14/37/51)

Berglund's numbers don't look that bad when you consider he had a down year and he got barely any PP time. If you look at his career averages (20/21/41), he's right in the middle of the pack. Do you seriously think we'd be able to move up that list with Berglund and a pick?

You might want to replace him with prospects, Fabbri is still unproven and Jaskin can't even hold Berglund's jock at this point. Now, if Berglund eventually becomes a cap casualty due to Frank and others getting raises, and has to be replaced with one of those guys, that's fine. But you don't just give up a 20/20 guy for no reason, especially when he's twice had 50 point seasons and is still just 26.

So can we please stop with the anti-Berglund groupthink? Please?

Jesus, nobody is hating on Berglund. But when all of our young guys come up, we're going to need to create room for them and Berglund's 3.7M contract will be the first to go since he's an average 45 point player these days - pretty much a 3rd-liner.

Who else are the Blues going to move from their current top 9 besides Berglund and Lidstrom? Nobody because everyone else is really a core piece (waiting to see how Lehtera does). They aren't going anywhere. This is how the cap world works.

 

[David Dennison]

Jesus, nobody is hating on Berglund. But when all of our young guys come up, we're going to need to create room for them and Berglund's 3.7M contract will be the first to go since he's an average 45 point player these days - pretty much a 3rd-liner.

Who else are the Blues going to move from their current top 9 besides Berglund and Lidstrom? Nobody because everyone else is really a core piece (waiting to see how Lehtera does). They aren't going anywhere. This is how the cap world works.

A quick look at forward scoring from last season, and there were about 140 forwards who scored at a 45 point pace (~.55 PPG), with maybe 5 or 10 guys with less than 20 games played (small sample). 45 points would put you in the top 6 in forward scoring on every team but the Bruins. I know Bergy didnt score 45 points last season, Im just saying that it is a fallacy to think that a 45 point player cant be a top 6 guy. League wide, thats about the midpoint for a 2nd liner.

And salary probably wont be an issue for at least a couple of more seasons. Vladdy is the only big name we have to sign after this season, and we have a few moderate salaries coming off of the books. After that, things get hazy, but no team can plan more than a year ahead with any certainty.

 

[BlueDream]

A quick look at forward scoring from last season, and there were about 140 forwards who scored at a 45 point pace (~.55 PPG), with maybe 5 or 10 guys with less than 20 games played (small sample). 45 points would put you in the top 6 in forward scoring on every team but the Bruins. I know Bergy didnt score 45 points last season, Im just saying that it is a fallacy to think that a 45 point player cant be a top 6 guy. League wide, thats about the midpoint for a 2nd liner.

And salary probably wont be an issue for at least a couple of more seasons. Vladdy is the only big name we have to sign after this season, and we have a few moderate salaries coming off of the books. After that, things get hazy, but no team can plan more than a year ahead with any certainty.

Well he's not going to be a top 6 guy on this team, obviously.

And sure he can score 45-50 points but I was actually being generous. He's more of a 40-point guy these days. Pretty much 3rd-line material.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

If Berglund is moved it will likely be at the draft. Hopefully for a 1st round pick, but I'm not holding my breath.

Why the draft? If Army is smart he trades him at the deadline. He has leverage with his contract not expiring.

 

[SirPaste]

Why the draft? If Army is smart he trades him at the deadline. He has leverage with his contract not expiring.

He is signed for 3 years, whats the difference?

 

[bluemandan]

He is signed for 3 years, whats the difference?

Berglund+ for a deadline rental?