GDT: That Wonderful Time of the Year: BBHOF Balloting

[missingmika]

Why not Tony Fernandez then? They're both sitting at 45 WAR for their careers

Fernandez has a much lower dWAR (14.9, 114th over) to Omar (29.5, 9th overall).

Omar has 11 Gold Gloves to Fernandez 4. Plus Omar did that going up against Jeter, ARod and Nomar.

Omar has the following records that Fernandez does not:

1. 
   Highest career field percentage for a shortstop in MLB history at .985
   - All-time leader in games played at shortstop
   - All-time leader in double-plays turned at shortstop
   - AL record for most consecutive games played at shortstop without an error

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary, but I don't really see any justification for Halladay being inducted when Kevin Brown fell off the ballot after just one year of eligibility

Kevin Brown Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Roy Halladay Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

If those two are getting in then Orel Hershiser and David Cone should be in as well

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary, but I don't really see any justification for Halladay being inducted when Kevin Brown fell off the ballot after just one year of eligibility

Kevin Brown Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
Roy Halladay Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

2 Cy Youngs to 0

And 1 pitched in the AL East at it's toughest for his career...the other didnt

 

[Neutrinos]

2 Cy Youngs to 0

And 1 pitched in the AL East at it's toughest for his career...the other didnt

What's more important, being the best pitcher in your league, or taking home the Cy Young award?

Brown was 1st among NL pitchers in WAR in both '96 and '98

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

What's more important, being the best pitcher in your league, or taking home the Cy Young award?

Brown was 1st among NL pitchers in WAR in both '96 and '98

Just for reference...

Halladay’s WAR finishes vs league wide pitching

2002 - 4th
2003 - 3rd, AL CY
2004 - injured, but this was a down year
2005 - injured, but was having a phenomenal season and likely would have been a CY winner or finalist
2006 - 9th
2007 - 8th
2008 - 3rd
2009 - 4th
2010 - 3rd, NL CY
2011 - 1st

 

[rangerssharks414]

For what it's worth, I don't know how bWAR for pitchers is calculated. I hate how fWAR is calculated. Yes, I know the three true outcome thingy, but I don't like it.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Doc wasnt always the most dominant but his consistency is among an otherworldly level.

He absolutely deserved to get in

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Doc wasnt always the most dominant but his consistency is among an otherworldly level.

He absolutely deserved to get in

just about his entire career, the Blue Jays game plan for the rotation was "Halladay then pray"

 

[Halladay]

For what it's worth, I don't know how bWAR for pitchers is calculated. I hate how fWAR is calculated. Yes, I know the three true outcome thingy, but I don't like it.

bWAR is calculated by what they feel the true number of runs the pitcher would have given up. It takes into account defense unlike fWAR and FIP. That is why Nola's bWAR was over 10. I don't like fWAR either, but it is what it is

 

[Know Your Enemy]

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

If Halladay's still alive is his support this high in his first year? He's got the 2nd highest total so far after Rivera, based on the tracker and is most likely getting in.

He's probably a HoFer in the long run, but I wouldn't vote for him this year (only because of the 10 vote limit) and he's getting votes like he was Maddux.

Johan Santana (granted with a shorter peak) is a comparable player and didn't even get 5% last year. Him and Mussina also had very similar careers and Mussina probably won't get in til next year which will be his 7th try.



PS: I still can't get over Harold Baines. Jesus Christ.

 

[DoyleG]

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

If Halladay's still alive is his support this high in his first year? He's got the 2nd highest total so far after Rivera, based on the tracker and is most likely getting in.

He's probably a HoFer in the long run, but I wouldn't vote for him this year (only because of the 10 vote limit) and he's getting votes like he was Maddux.

Johan Santana (granted with a shorter peak) is a comparable player and didn't even get 5% last year. Him and Mussina also had very similar careers and Mussina probably won't get in til next year which will be his 7th try.



PS: I still can't get over Harold Baines. Jesus Christ.

no doubt his tragic death has accelerated his call to The Hall...but like you said, he's a HOF'er

looking at the 2019 ballot, I dont see enough depth there to where voting for Halladay will cost a deserving candidate their HOF election. Especially since the steroids = no crowd is still in control

No reason why they cant just vote a top 3 of Edgar, Moose, Halladay

 

[Neutrinos]

What's the argument for Edgar over Rolen?

Rolen has more doubles, home runs, RBI, and a higher career WAR

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

What's the argument for Edgar over Rolen?

Rolen has more doubles, home runs, RBI, and a higher career WAR

its pretty damn close, slight edge to Edgar:

Games

Rolen - 2038
Edgar - 2055

Slash Line

Rolen - .281/.364/.490
Edgar - .312/.418/.515

OPS, OPS+

Rolen - .855, +122
Edgar - .933, +147

Hits and Runs

Rolen - 2077, 1211
Edgar - 2247, 1219

HR and RBI

Rolen - 316, 1287
Edgar - 309, 1261

oWAR

Rolen - 52.8
Edgar - 66.9

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

its pretty damn close, slight edge to Edgar:

Games

Rolen - 2038
Edgar - 2055

Slash Line

Rolen - .281/.364/.490
Edgar - .312/.418/.515

OPS, OPS+

Rolen - .855, +122
Edgar - .933, +147

Hits and Runs

Rolen - 2077, 1211
Edgar - 2247, 1219

HR and RBI

Rolen - 316, 1287
Edgar - 309, 1261

oWAR

Rolen - 52.8
Edgar - 66.9

Right... but Rolen is also one of the best defensive 3B of all time while all Edgar did was hit.

 

[rangerssharks414]

What's the argument for Edgar over Rolen?

Rolen has more doubles, home runs, RBI, and a higher career WAR

I don't think there is one, but I would not use RBI as a factor when deciding.

 

[Neutrinos]

I don't think there is one, but I would not use RBI as a factor when deciding.

I wasn't using RBI as a deciding factor

Edgar is thought of as an offensive juggernaut of sorts, so I was just surprised by it

 

[Extra Texture]

If he winds up in the high 60% as he is now, I think Walker will be a shoo-in for his 10th year on the ballot.

 

[Elvis P]

Some HoF voters have revealed their ballots. It appears that Bonds, Martinez, Rivera, Mussina, Clemens, Halladay, Schilling and Walker may all get in this year. Eight players in one year would be a record.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Bonds and Clemens better.

Pull your god damn heads out of your asses, voters.

 

[EpochLink]

Bonds and Clemens = yes.
Enough of this nonsense, put them in Cooperstown.

 

[NewtJorden]

Once Clemens and Bonds gets in, steroid will probably be made legal in baseball.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Clemens is such a dick of a human being though. Character should matter to some degree. Figured that this would hurt Schilling even if that was post career.

NY media is whining that Rivera should be 100%. Personally who cares? He's still getting in.

These Hall of Fames are going to start getting watered down in the future though.

 

[Elvis P]

Clemens is such a dick of a human being though. Character should matter to some degree. Figured that this would hurt Schilling even if that was post career. NY media is whining that Rivera should be 100%. Personally who cares? He's still getting in. These Hall of Fames are going to start getting watered down in the future though.

Agreed with all.