Blue Jays Discussion: Thank you, Gibby!

[trellaine201]

Blue Jays: Where there’s smoke there’s fire- Mets interested in Mark Shapiro?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Atkins would have seen Merryweather for 1.5 seasons in Cleveland, which means that this is a player he knows more about than some other random prospect. Believe it or not, this actually means something. Who gives a crap if he hasn't seen him pitch this season? Recovery from TJ is normal nowadays, and he's already seen what he can do when healthy.

The Indians actually added him to their 40 man roster AFTER his "terrible" 2017 season, so even they saw something that they obviously liked in an overage pitcher with a 5.32 ERA (ohhh nooo, ERA!!) otherwise they wouldn't have used a roster spot on him. You'd see what it is that they liked if you actually read a scouting report, but that is probably asking too much from you, and why would you need to do that when statline scouting exists and a 5.32 ERA season obviously means he's terrible?

Formerly the best fastball in the Indians system too, fwiw.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Toronto Blue Jays have the fifth-best farm system in baseball according to MLB Pipeline’s ranking from last month and general manager Ross Atkins spoke glowingly of the team’s prospects over the weekend. ESPN senior writer Keith Law doesn’t agree.

https://www.tsn.ca/law-on-jays-it-s-not-a-top-10-system-1.1168004

The Toronto Blue Jays have the fifth-best farm system in baseball according to MLB Pipeline’s ranking from last month and general manager Ross Atkins spoke glowingly of the team’s prospects over the weekend.

ESPN senior writer Keith Law doesn’t agree.

“It’s not a top 10 system. I think that’s absurd. I understand that teams like to boast about their own farm systems, but the objective evidence is simply not there. I find that really empty,” Law said Wednesday on Landsberg in the Morning.

“Look, everybody thinks they have a good farm system, but it is disturbing when you exaggerate to that extent. The Blue Jays have a top-heavy system. They have arguably three prospects who are among the elite in the game and then below that it gets very thin very quickly.”

The three Law is referring to are likely Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Danny Jansen, who has held his own in 44 at-bats at the big-league level.

Law, who worked for the club from 2002 to 2006 in the scouting department and as a special assistant to GM J.P. Ricciardi, disagrees, saying the Jays’ system lacks depth.

“Farm systems that look like this are never in my top 10,” Law said. “The top 10 systems in baseball, objectively, should have both star-calibre prospects and quite a bit of depth of future average-or-better major leaguers. They don’t have the latter.”

The Jays added to their prospect pool with a flurry of trades this summer, but Law isn’t overly excited about the return.

“If you look at the results from the trades now, really they waited too long to trade a couple of key pieces and the returns have been very meager,” he said.

 

[zeke]

Blue Jays: Where there’s smoke there’s fire- Mets interested in Mark Shapiro?

I dislike this FO....but if they overhaul the FO this quickly after the short-term waste is already done, it'll be an even bigger joke.

just sell the team to MLSE already.

 

[zeke]

The Toronto Blue Jays have the fifth-best farm system in baseball according to MLB Pipeline’s ranking from last month and general manager Ross Atkins spoke glowingly of the team’s prospects over the weekend. ESPN senior writer Keith Law doesn’t agree.

https://www.tsn.ca/law-on-jays-it-s-not-a-top-10-system-1.1168004

lmao. poor Keith.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Keith Law is one of the biggest blowhards in sports media and that is saying something. Atleast with the Skip Bayless of the world you know they are basically playing a character to bring the money in lol. He is just petty and bitter. Not even a top 10 system lol list the 10 out Keith.

 

[Discoverer]

The Toronto Blue Jays have the fifth-best farm system in baseball according to MLB Pipeline’s ranking from last month and general manager Ross Atkins spoke glowingly of the team’s prospects over the weekend. ESPN senior writer Keith Law doesn’t agree.

https://www.tsn.ca/law-on-jays-it-s-not-a-top-10-system-1.1168004

It's actually kind of impressive at this point.

 

[Cor]

Atkins would have seen Merryweather for 1.5 seasons in Cleveland, which means that this is a player he knows more about than some other random prospect. Believe it or not, this actually means something. Who gives a crap if he hasn't seen him pitch this season? Recovery from TJ is normal nowadays, and he's already seen what he can do when healthy.

The Indians actually added him to their 40 man roster AFTER his "terrible" 2017 season, so even they saw something that they obviously liked in an overage pitcher with a 5.32 ERA (ohhh nooo, ERA!!) otherwise they wouldn't have used a roster spot on him. You'd see what it is that they liked if you actually read a scouting report, but that is probably asking too much from you, and why would you need to do that when statline scouting exists and a 5.32 ERA season obviously means he's terrible?

I'm not sure why you are getting so offended.

I don't'dislike Atkins. I don't dislike the trade even, assuming they felt it was the best return. I even said when the news was breaking that if we are getting a lower grade prospect, at least it will be likely someone Atkins/Shapiro know a bit about.

I simply don't like saying that Merryweather is going to have a significant impact on our roster, and the optics of saying you are happy with the return, given JD's 1st, 4th and 22nd in MVP voting seasons are still very fresh in the fans minds. As I said, Merryweather appears to have a solid HR rate, and even his BB rate is decent, but his H and ER rates are very high. Maybe he's a late bloomer. Maybe he's a guy that doesn't stand out in the minors and comes to the majors and has a "significant impact".

That's impossible for anyone to say.

Thus, is why I don't like Atkins boldly proclaiming he is very happy with the return and that the PTBNL will have a major impact on the roster.

 

[Mach85]

That's odd phrasing by KLaw...he acknowledges all teams boast about their systems, yet somehow the Jays are the only team that's pulled the wool over the eyes of the scouting services to get them to "exaggerate" their ranking...just because?

 

[Discoverer]

That's odd phrasing by KLaw...he acknowledges all teams boast about their systems, yet somehow the Jays are the only team that's pulled the wool over the eyes of the scouting services to get them to "exaggerate" their ranking...just because?

Yeah, that's what I don't get. Like... he says "it is disturbing when you exaggerate to that extent". Shapiro must be more powerful than we've given him credit for if he's forced Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, MLB.com, and Fangraphs to all be really, really high on the Jays farm system.

At least Keith Law is here to see through every other prospect evaluator's lies to set us straight.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The Toronto Blue Jays have the fifth-best farm system in baseball according to MLB Pipeline’s ranking from last month and general manager Ross Atkins spoke glowingly of the team’s prospects over the weekend. ESPN senior writer Keith Law doesn’t agree.

https://www.tsn.ca/law-on-jays-it-s-not-a-top-10-system-1.1168004

“Farm systems that look like this are never in my top 10,” Law said. “The top 10 systems in baseball, objectively, should have both star-calibre prospects and quite a bit of depth of future average-or-better major leaguers. They don’t have the latter.”

...

2018 MLB Organizational Talent Rankings

State of the System: Vladimir Guerrero Jr. alone carries enormous value, and the combination of Vlad Jr. and Bo Bichette gives the Blue Jays the best prospect duo in the game. Yet the Blue Jays also have impressive depth as well, with big leaps forward from Kevin Smith, Cavan Biggio and Sean Reid-Foley, impressive returns from a 2017 international class led by 17-year-old righthander Eric Pardinho and a strong 2018 draft class.

 

[Nineteen67]

The Toronto Blue Jays have the fifth-best farm system in baseball according to MLB Pipeline’s ranking from last month and general manager Ross Atkins spoke glowingly of the team’s prospects over the weekend. ESPN senior writer Keith Law doesn’t agree.

https://www.tsn.ca/law-on-jays-it-s-not-a-top-10-system-1.1168004

Valid concerns. Aside from the 3 mentioned and Nate Pearson it does get a little dicey after that.

 

[TOGuy14]

I dislike this FO....but if they overhaul the FO this quickly after the short-term waste is already done, it'll be an even bigger joke.

just sell the team to MLSE already.

Huh? I mean all that really does is have Rogers sell half the team to Bell (and some Tanenbaum combination)

How does that improve the fortunes of the club at all?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Valid concerns. Aside from the 3 mentioned and Nate Pearson it does get a little dicey after that.

No it isn't and no it doesn't.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Valid concerns. Aside from the 3 mentioned and Nate Pearson it does get a little dicey after that.

# of current top-100 prospects: 5
# of former top-100 prospects: 3
# of 45 or higher FV prospects: 14

 

[Discoverer]

Valid concerns. Aside from the 3 mentioned and Nate Pearson it does get a little dicey after that.

Among organizations who evaluate baseball prospects for a living, Keith Law is alone in his opinion that the Jays don't have depth. It's not a valid concern whatsoever.

 

[Cor]

# of current top-100 prospects: 5
# of former top-100 prospects: 3
# of 45 or higher FV prospects: 14

#NoDepth

 

[zeke]

Valid concerns. Aside from the 3 mentioned and Nate Pearson it does get a little dicey after that.

I'd put our 4-10 guys up against most any team's, no problem.

 

[zeke]

Huh? I mean all that really does is have Rogers sell half the team to Bell (and some Tanenbaum combination)

How does that improve the fortunes of the club at all?

Look how MLSE is running its 3 teams.

Money is no object. Elite executives are pursued and acquired. Elite players are pursued and acquired.

 

[phillipmike]

Keith Law says "Jays have a top 10 system" = no story

Keith Law criticizes the Jays and say they do not = story and we give him clicks and material to work with.

Wasting time discussing him. He is in the business of getting people to talk about him and by us taking his opinion at face value is giving him what he wants. Has to get those subscribers.

Clearly he is wrong, nothing to discuss.

 

[dangomon]

The Toronto Blue Jays have the fifth-best farm system in baseball according to MLB Pipeline’s ranking from last month and general manager Ross Atkins spoke glowingly of the team’s prospects over the weekend. ESPN senior writer Keith Law doesn’t agree.

https://www.tsn.ca/law-on-jays-it-s-not-a-top-10-system-1.1168004

"Everybody thinks they have a good farm system", but I don't so listen to me and not them.

 

[stickty111]

Valid concerns. Aside from the 3 mentioned and Nate Pearson it does get a little dicey after that.

Negative nancy at your service.
No it doesnt get dicey at all.
SRF
Zeuch
Paradinho
Groshans
Kloffanstein
Alford
Smith
Hiraldo
Martinez

 

[stickty111]

# of current top-100 prospects: 5
# of former top-100 prospects: 3
# of 45 or higher FV prospects: 14

Yeah but it gets dicey.

 

[selltrade]

Keith Law is a dick

 

[Deebo]

I heard the interview this morning, it was like Landsberg and Cauz didn't know that BA and MLB Pipeline had the Jays system ranked top 5.