Blue Jays Discussion: Thank you, Gibby!

[Cor]

Maybe he actually believes it?

How many times have you seen Merryweather pitch, since you seem to be an expert?

The same amount as Atkins has this year. Lmao

(AKA Zip)

Last years combined 5.32 ERA between AA and AAA is pretty good though. Future impact player for us IMO


His HR rate seems to be decent though.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Indians Trade Westbrook to Cardinals in 3-Team Deal; Receive RHP Kluber from Padres

I was looking back at some of the comments in the Cleveland threads after they acquired Kluber for Westbrook. Kluber was not ranked in San Diego's top 30 by BA at the time. Not saying Merryweather will be as good, but crazier things have happened.

First off, nothing but best wishes and (hopefully) playoff success for Jake. Here’s hoping he returns in the fall.
That said, I’m more than a bit disappointed that we traded an inning eating ML starter and cash for a fringe #5 starter/MR. On a deal that we didn’t have to make, I’m questioning to FO on this one.

This being said, Kulber likely isn’t anything special. But very much could be. We are overvaluing Westbrook, and that’s the key to any perceived disappointment. And maybe we’re the only ones that know Westbrook’s real value. But every other team seems to see him as a man who has had a number of bad starts coming off surgery.

Kubler is 24. His K-rate in Double-A is better than Westbrook’s in the majors — well whoop-dee-doo. A guy in Triple-A at age 24 is not old, but it’s also not young, and it’s also not a guy with any chance to be front of the rotation and probably not middle either, and anyway, Kubler isn’t in Triple-A.
As an optimist, you only get to round up for a guy once. If you round up four times, then you’re just being ridiculous. “Fringe starter slash middle relief” maybe a pessimistic view of Kubler, but only slightly so if that.

I remember discussion on here a while back about whether or not it was good that we could completely understand every move the Tribe made, seeing as we are not professionals. Maybe it’s okay that Shapiro occasionally makes a move that we don’t get.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Daily Prospect Notes: 5/31 | FanGraphs Baseball

I left Merryweather off of Cleveland’s offseason list entirely because I had reports from scouts who thought he was succeeding as a 24-year-old in A-ball due to deception, a good changeup, and little else. Turns out that was foolish. Merryweather is 25 but he’s pitched his way to Columbus and he carved up one of the more talented lineups in the International League yesterday, garnering swings and misses with all three pitches. He’s deceptive, athletic, touched 95 several times, flashed a plus curveball and changeup, and despite some issues timing all the moving parts of his delivery, he threw lots of strikes. There are scouts who think he fits better in relief, but he has mid-rotation stuff.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Indians Trade Westbrook to Cardinals in 3-Team Deal; Receive RHP Kluber from Padres

I was looking back at some of the comments in the Cleveland threads after they acquired Kluber for Westbrook. Kluber was not ranked in San Diego's top 30 by BA at the time. Not saying Merryweather will be as good, but crazier things have happened.

Well hopefully Mayweather can turn out half as good as Kulber. If Marrywhether can turn out half as good as Kubler, we will have done very well.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

That changeup looks pretty legit.

 

[thehockeysong]

Woof. Shatkin trades are the gift that keep on giving.

Appreciate the scouting. Effort level is 11/10 considering he's been out for surgery so no live games to see. Could those disappointed give me an idea of how late the break is on his breaking ball? How does his arm look post-op?

I would've assumed no one here had ever seen a Cleveland minor league pitcher in their lives, certainly not more than the two guys who ran that team while he developed. I'm proven wrong again!

One thing to doubt the upside (age + experience), but seems like "never post in blue jays threads" posters always have THE strongest opinions at the draft, trade deadline and free agency.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Appreciate the scouting. Effort level is 11/10 considering he's been out for surgery so no live games to see. Could those disappointed give me an idea of how late the break is on his breaking ball? How does his arm look post-op?

I would've assumed no one here had ever seen a Cleveland minor league pitcher in their lives, certainly not more than the two guys who ran that team while he developed. I'm proven wrong again!

One thing to doubt the upside (age + experience), but seems like "never post in blue jays threads" posters always have THE strongest opinions at the draft, trade deadline and free agency.

I'm allowed to be skeptical of a 26 soon to be 27 year old who has not seen success past AA ball tools or not. Being pissed at moving a former MVP for this sort of return when it was obvious we weren't contenders after last season is reasonable. How often I post here has nothing to do with my fandom or knowledge of baseball.

 

[Battle Lin]

can you seriously not get more from other contenders lol

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that this isn't a shit return for a former MVP in a vacuum. But given the circumstances Merryweather is at least somewhat interesting in his own right and could surprise people.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that this isn't a **** return for a former MVP in a vacuum. But given the circumstances Merryweather is at least somewhat interesting in his own right and could surprise people.

Right. This is what I'm hoping for. That he puts whatever tools he does have together and becomes a middle rotation guy or upper end reliever.

 

[AllDay28]

Why do people keep bringing up MVP like that wasnt 2-3 yrs ago and hes a changed player? Cutch got traded and hes a former MVP as well... neither got real good returns. probably moreso to do with being 31+, injury proned and not that good.

Boy, We got nothing for DOnaldson, whos on the DL and not even playing for Cleveland. What did you guys expect again?

 

[Maplebeasts]

Why do people keep bringing up MVP like that wasnt 2-3 yrs ago and hes a changed player? Cutch got traded and hes a former MVP as well... neither got real good returns. probably moreso to do with being 31+, injury proned and not that good.

Boy, We got nothing for DOnaldson, whos on the DL and not even playing for Cleveland. What did you guys expect again?

A trade before this whole debacle began.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Pearson is touching 101 mph on the stadium gun.

Is he supposed to be a starter for us going forward? TSN has been pushing an interview with him saying he wants to break Chapman’s speed records but I can’t see him doing that as a starter

 

[Nineteen67]

The only thing they got from the JD trade is goodwill. Knowing they weren’t going to offer a QO, they at least gave JD a chance to play in the playoffs. Maybe that helps with a FA down the road.

On the other side of the coin from Dec 2016 until Feb 2018 there is a whole lot of mismanagement going on by somebody.

 

[Eyedea]

Is he supposed to be a starter for us going forward? TSN has been pushing an interview with him saying he wants to break Chapman’s speed records but I can’t see him doing that as a starter

They definitely envision him as a starter.

 

[Cloned]

Has it actually been confirmed that the PTBNL is Merryweather?

 

[Judas Tavares]

The Jays aren't in dire straits. Things could be better, but, they could be much, much worse. Excited to see what's around the corner and what has already made its way here.

But I will say there are two things that come up in the discussions about this year/when was it right to trade JD and/or others which really bug me.

1. If if and buts were candy and nuts.... A lot of people will defend the direction with "We could have made the 2nd Wild Card if x and y were healthy and if z and t had career years and if p and h developed like they should have etc...." Well that's a lot of ifs to be able to beat out approx 5 teams for one spot. All the ifs needed to go right, and normally they won't. Basically there was a close your eyes and hope, then when it didn't happen, its easy to play hindsight and go "But this guy was hurt, and we didn't get a full season out of that guy." Well ya, there was too much that needed to go perfectly, don't be surprised this happened.

2. This comes from a few comments I've seen, but also reading Stoeten's article. The hindsight game is played "We would have been good if", but then, the previous regime gets mentioned having gutting us and having an old core which was declining so "of course we weren't going to be good."

So which is it? Were we going to be good, but in hindsight, the ifs went bad, or were we doomed from the start? This is where the waffling happens or as another poster mentioned well, them not drawing a line in the sand. If we were doomed from the start, draw a line and start the tear down. If we weren't, do more to support your competitiveness.

Again, things aren't awful and good things have happened, are happening, and will happen. But there has also been some mis-management here due to hoping and praying rather than actual doing.

 

[Spirit of 67]

If Shapiro leaves, then it pretty much confirms (in case there was any doubt) that Rogers is the major problem.

There is plenty. The AA crowd love to heap the blame on the Shatkins.
It's pretty clear Rogers has mishandled this entire situation going back years.

 

[Morgs]

Oh my.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I got a kick out of Hayes & Co with Griffin on OD yesterday complain that the asset management on Donaldson was poor but then complain moments later that they aren't calling up Vlady.

 

[metafour]

The same amount as Atkins has this year. Lmao

(AKA Zip)

Last years combined 5.32 ERA between AA and AAA is pretty good though. Future impact player for us IMO


His HR rate seems to be decent though.

Atkins would have seen Merryweather for 1.5 seasons in Cleveland, which means that this is a player he knows more about than some other random prospect. Believe it or not, this actually means something. Who gives a crap if he hasn't seen him pitch this season? Recovery from TJ is normal nowadays, and he's already seen what he can do when healthy.

The Indians actually added him to their 40 man roster AFTER his "terrible" 2017 season, so even they saw something that they obviously liked in an overage pitcher with a 5.32 ERA (ohhh nooo, ERA!!) otherwise they wouldn't have used a roster spot on him. You'd see what it is that they liked if you actually read a scouting report, but that is probably asking too much from you, and why would you need to do that when statline scouting exists and a 5.32 ERA season obviously means he's terrible?

 

[selltrade]

can you seriously not get more from other contenders lol

Donaldson hasnt played yet and is glass..

 

[selltrade]

A trade before this whole debacle began.

and then you would have said, they are contenders. Why trade Donaldson.. SMH

 

[Longshot]

This is why I said Atkins botched his interviews.

He’s now called a 27 year old who has never pitched above AAA, and doesn’t really have any impressive numbers someone who will make a significant impact on the roster and that he was very happy with the return.

He’s set himself up to look incompetent.


Again, I’m a supporter of Shapiro and Atkins, and I’m perfectly fine with trading Donaldson for whatever we could get.

I’m not fond of trying to paint a picture that simply isn’t there though.

I agree with this sentiment.

Leave Merryweather out of it - I've never seen him, never heard of him and none of us have any idea what kind of player he will be.

And, maybe Atkins does actually believe what he said, but why does he have to state it publicly in such a conclusive way?

All he does is raise the expectations of the fans and create false hope.

There was no reason for him to make any sort of grand statement on this situation. The Donaldson situation was awful. For his own good, Atkins should have just said: "It was an unfortunate turn of events, we like the return we'll be receiving and we wish Josh all the best."

I mean, the front office already looks bad for how this year played out with Donaldson, why potentially make it worse by hinting to a (generally) ticked off fan base that you got a player who will "make a significant impact" in an August deadline deal for an injured player? Regardless of what Merryweather does from here on out in his career, there is a certain absurdity to what Atkins said when you consider the overall situation.

 

[Longshot]

and then you would have said, they are contenders. Why trade Donaldson.. SMH

Let's be fair here.

There were plenty of people - many, many people - who were saying last winter it was over after the horrible 2017 season and the Jays should be trading off their most valuable assets in an effort to re-stock the system.

There were a lot of questions about this team's ability to contend last winter and it the concept of trading off players like Donaldson, Osuna, etc, was a perfectly reasonable position to take.

It's not fair to throw the "hind sight is 20/20" argument back into the face of anybody who says now: "They should have done this months ago when the return would have been stronger."

That was hardly a radical thought back then.