Former Bruins Thank You, David Krejci: Returning To Czech Republic

[KrejciMVP]

Taking out a player from one era and putting them into another era is an exercise in futility. You put Krejci in the 40's and he would also have to deal with the times of that generation - the wooden skates, the poor ice conditions, limited training and practice habits, virtually no technological advancements to help with improving their game. Does Krejci overcome or is he jag? Nobody can know that. Cowley in this era would have the benefits of better equipment, advanced scouting, better training habits. Does he become an even better player or does he not even make the team? Again, nobody can really say for sure.

What we do know for sure is how they performed in the generations they played in against their peers.

We get it, you love Krejci. But you should take off the shades. What real argument is there for Krejci being placed over Cowley? I can't see any.

There weren't as many players back then so ya somebody like Cowley could dominate a league a fraction of the size now. Could Cowley even dominate the AHL game in this era, Im not sure about that. Big fish small pond. Is Cowley better than Bergeron as per your requirement above? I noticed someone above put Bergeron in front of Cowley but buried Krejci well below Crowley as if it wasn't obvious of the clear agendas here

 

[finchster]

Historically I'd probably rank him ahead of Krejci. But its certainly debatable.

Weiland is in the Hall of Fame and I don't see Krejci getting in.

I was surprised to see that Thornton & Ratelle both played more games for Boston than Oates. Loved watching Ratelle play.

1)Esposito
2)Schmidt
3)Bergeron
4)Cowley
5)Weiland
6)Oates
7) Ratelle
8)Thornton
9)Krejci
10) Sanderson

I've overlooked Ratelle. I had forgotten he had some elite seasons in a Bruins jersey. I need to fix that

I'll take Cowley over Bergeron, but I won't quibble with that. Cowley gets overlooked historically because many of his achievements happened during the war, but that is unfair because he was a star before it. We shouldn't take his war numbers at face value, but his first-team all-stars and Hart voting record were possible in a full-strength NHL. He wasn't Herb Cain or Lorne Carr. I've compared Bergeron to Dave Keon before, and I think he is probably along the same tier of player. However, I think Cowley would compare well to Peter Forsberg. I think I would take Forsberg over Keon all-time.

Sanderson probably has a Selke if they had awarded it then. Thornton had a third-place point finish, but again, I see Krejci ahead because of his longevity and his playoff record. Maybe, I need to readjust my view on guys like McNab and McKenney vs Sanderson and Thornton, and perhaps I overvalue longevity. However, my top-4 are locks in my mind, and 5-10 needs more debate and thought.

1)Esposito
2)Schmidt
3)Cowley
4)Bergeron

5)Krejci
6)Oates
7)Weiland
8)Ratelle
9)McKenney
10)McNab
NR)Sanderson
NR)Thornton

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

it's absolutely asinine that you have the guy ranked 9th when he's the 8th leading scorer in franchise history, 3rd among centers, and 2nd among all Bruins in all-time playoff scoring.

What is your list even supposed to be? The discussion was about best Bruins centers, not "best centers that happened to play for the Bruins at some point". Thornton has more career points but AS A BRUIN, Krejci is unquestionably ahead of him and many of the other guys on your list.

Thornton played 8 season in Boston.

He was a second team all-star once (one more than Krejci) and had a 4th place finish in Hart voting. 2nd in assists one year and had 35 and 37 goal seasons in the dead puck era for the Bruins. Also was a big hitter and fighter in his Bruins days.

He was much more of a difference maker than Krejci.

If longevity is that big factor, then I would have no problem ranking Thornton behind Krejci.

But my rankings certainly are not based on total points as a Bruin. More along the lines of who were the best players (at center) for the Bruins. I don't think its asinine to have 8 centers in Bruins history ahead of Krejci.

 

[jgatie]

There weren't as many players back then so ya somebody like Cowley could dominate a league a fraction of the size now. Could Cowley even dominate the AHL game in this era, Im not sure about that. Big fish small pond. Is Cowley better than Bergeron as per your requirement above? I noticed someone above put Bergeron in front of Cowley but buried Krejci well below Crowley as if it wasn't obvious of the clear agendas here

Not as many players? Sure the US and international player pools weren't there, but we are talking about a league that was 6 teams vs 32. Also, as a percentage of the population, there were far more hockey players back then. Practically every Canadian boy played hockey. Now, with the expense of the sport being prohibitive, far more kids in Canada play soccer.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Not as many players? Sure the US and international player pools weren't there, but we are talking about a league that was 6 teams vs 32. Also, as a percentage of the population, there were far more hockey players back then. Practically every Canadian boy played hockey. Now, with the expense of the sport being prohibitive, far more kids in Canada play soccer.

I think making arguments that players of that era come even close to the talent of today is like saying the 60s celtics would dominate this era. way more talent now. Notice how the Habs dont dominte anymore, so sure we can argue the absurd for the sake of arguing bc its all speculation

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I've overlooked Ratelle. I had forgotten he had some elite seasons in a Bruins jersey. I need to fix that

I'll take Cowley over Bergeron, but I won't quibble with that. Cowley gets overlooked historically because many of his achievements happened during the war, but that is unfair because he was a star before it. We shouldn't take his war numbers at face value, but his first-team all-stars and Hart voting record were possible in a full-strength NHL. He wasn't Herb Cain or Lorne Carr. I've compared Bergeron to Dave Keon before, and I think he is probably along the same tier of player. However, I think Cowley would compare well to Peter Forsberg. I think I would take Forsberg over Keon all-time.

Sanderson probably has a Selke if they had awarded it then. Thornton had a third-place point finish, but again, I see Krejci ahead because of his longevity and his playoff record. Maybe, I need to readjust my view on guys like McNab and McKenney vs Sanderson and Thornton, and perhaps I overvalue longevity. However, my top-4 are locks in my mind, and 5-10 needs more debate and thought.

1)Esposito
2)Schmidt
3)Cowley
4)Bergeron

5)Krejci
6)Oates
7)Weiland
8)Ratelle
9)McKenney
10)McNab
NR)Sanderson
NR)Thornton

My biggest problem with Cowley is that he was well known for completely disregarding defense. He said himself that he was paid to create goals, not stop them. The contrast to Bergeron is just too overwhelming. No D vs. one of best ever D.

Keon to Bergeron is an excellent compare. Keon's speed and goal scoring probably give him the edge.

Forsberg, to me, is on another level from all these guys.

 

[PB37]

There weren't as many players back then so ya somebody like Cowley could dominate a league a fraction of the size now. Could Cowley even dominate the AHL game in this era, Im not sure about that. Big fish small pond. Is Cowley better than Bergeron as per your requirement above? I noticed someone above put Bergeron in front of Cowley but buried Krejci well below Crowley as if it wasn't obvious of the clear agendas here

Bergeron has a better argument to be over Cowley than Krejci.

With that, you're weighing out the best defensive center of his generation and the man tied for the most Selke trophies wins in league history and a trophy nomination streak only bested by Wayne Gretzky - vs a guy who has two Hart trophies, ended his career with the most points of all time and a Hall of Famer. In the end, Cowley makes it on my list over Bergeron but it's much closer than Krejci's chance. Bergeron is going to be a hall of famer when he retires; Krejci's chances of being in the HOF is non existent.

It's about the impact a player has on their generation while they're playing.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Bergeron has a better argument to be over Cowley than Krejci.

With that, you're weighing out the best defensive center of his generation and the man tied for the most Selke trophies wins in league history and a trophy nomination streak only bested by Wayne Gretzky - vs a guy who has two Hart trophies, ended his career with the most points of all time and a Hall of Famer. In the end, Cowley makes it on my list over Bergeron but it's much closer than Krejci's chance. Bergeron is going to be a hall of famer when he retires; Krejci's chances of being in the HOF is non existent.

It's about the impact a player has on their generation while they're playing.

seems like its morphed into a popularity contest now lol I get your screen name is PB37 and hes your favorite player but shouldnt we take off the shades as you told me to?

 

[finchster]

There weren't as many players back then so ya somebody like Cowley could dominate a league a fraction of the size now. Could Cowley even dominate the AHL game in this era, Im not sure about that. Big fish small pond. Is Cowley better than Bergeron as per your requirement above? I noticed someone above put Bergeron in front of Cowley but buried Krejci well below Crowley as if it wasn't obvious of the clear agendas here

Alexander the Great, Napoleon, and Genghis Khan were all terrible generals. First of all, they had fewer troops than today's army, so it isn't clear they would even be able to handle the logistical nightmare of a modern army. Second, you cannot compare how hard it is to win a battle today versus back then. Nowadays, people have guns, rockets, drones, aircraft, aircraft carriers, and urban warfare can be a nightmare for troops on horseback. If you take their entire army today and face them against a small Division of US troops, it would be a blood bath, not even worth discussing. Give me Tommy Franks any day over guys like Napoleon, Khan and Alexander the notsogreat.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Alexander the Great, Napoleon, and Genghis Khan were all terrible generals. First of all, they had fewer troops than today's army, so it isn't clear they would even be able to handle the logistical nightmare of a modern army. Second, you cannot compare how hard it is to win a battle today versus back then. Nowadays, people have guns, rockets, drones, aircraft, aircraft carriers, and urban warfare can be a nightmare for troops on horseback. If you take their entire army today and face them against a small Division of US troops, it would be a blood bath, not even worth discussing. Give me Tommy Franks any day over guys like Napoleon, Khan and Alexander the notsogreat.

And Galileo knew dick about science compared to deGrassie Tyson.

Or sharp 8th graders.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Alexander the Great, Napoleon, and Genghis Khan were all terrible generals. First of all, they had fewer troops than today's army, so it isn't clear they would even be able to handle the logistical nightmare of a modern army. Second, you cannot compare how hard it is to win a battle today versus back then. Nowadays, people have guns, rockets, drones, aircraft, aircraft carriers, and urban warfare can be a nightmare for troops on horseback. If you take their entire army today and face them against a small Division of US troops, it would be a blood bath, not even worth discussing. Give me Tommy Franks any day over guys like Napoleon, Khan and Alexander the notsogreat.

i like the history lesson but still the talent pool of the 30s and 40s doesnt compare to todays game. Bobby Orr transcended the game in the 70s, the NHL had never seen talent like that is prior eras..add to that Gretzky amd Lemiuex. More people growing up playing hockey means more talent. Those players back then were the best of their era but not close to todays players

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

My biggest problem with Cowley is that he was well known for completely disregarding defense. He said himself that he was paid to create goals, not stop them. The contrast to Bergeron is just too overwhelming. No D vs. one of best ever D.

Keon to Bergeron is an excellent compare. Keon's speed and goal scoring probably give him the edge.

Forsberg, to me, is on another level from all these guys.

Definitely. I know he gets a lot of hf love in general, but I think the large majority of it is deserved. I think he'd be second after Esposito if he were a Bruin.

 

[PB37]

seems like its morphed into a popularity contest now lol I get your screen name is PB37 and hes your favorite player but shouldnt we take off the shades as you told me to?

Now you're not making any sense and just arguing just for the sake of it. My shades are off; I said I put Cowley over Bergeron, who has a better case for it than Krejci.

 

[PB37]

And Galileo knew dick about science compared to deGrassie Tyson.

Or sharp 8th graders.

Sun Tzu was a blowhard who knew nothing. No highlights of him on YouTube, so no bueno.

 

[KrejciMVP]

30s and 40s were the golden age of talent I guess, who knew

 

[finchster]

i like the history lesson but still the talent pool of the 30s and 40s doesnt compare to todays game.

Neither does the complexity of modern warfare compare to past warfare. I mean, Alexander the Great didn't even have the Geneva Convention! He could just order his troops to commit any atrocity he wanted! It would be so easy to win a war when you can just comitt any crime you want!

 

[jgatie]

I think making arguments that players of that era come even close to the talent of today is like saying the 60s celtics would dominate this era. way more talent now. Notice how the Habs dont dominte anymore, so sure we can argue the absurd for the sake of arguing bc its all speculation

Is there something about human evolution that has speeded up in the past 100 years? The body is the same, it's the equipment, the training, the nutrition, and the facilities that have improved.

There's a couple videos out there that prove this. In one, a modern Canadian champion sprinter ran the 100 wearing Jesse Owens' era spikes on a cinder track with no starting blocks; he wasn't able to beat Owens' time. In the other, modern players tried out various skates from the near and distant past. They could barely skate, never mind dominate.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Is there something about human evolution that has speeded up in the past 100 years? The body is the same, it's the equipment, the training, the nutrition, and the facilities that have improved.

There's a couple videos out there that prove this. In one, a modern Canadian champion sprinter ran the 100 wearing Jesse Owens' era spikes on a cinder track with no starting blocks; he wasn't able to beat Owens' time. In the other, modern players tried out various skates from the near and distant past. They could barely skate, never mind dominate.

Hey it's seems to be the general consensus here the game was at it's peak then so Im gonna just agree to disagree. I don't think there is a chance to change some minds here. There were some failed generals in the past so it must be so

 

[Dr Hook]

Is there something about human evolution that has speeded up in the past 100 years? The body is the same, it's the equipment, the training, the nutrition, and the facilities that have improved.

There's a couple videos out there that prove this. In one, a modern Canadian champion sprinter ran the 100 wearing Jesse Owens' era spikes on a cinder track with no starting blocks; he wasn't able to beat Owens' time. In the other, modern players tried out various skates from the near and distant past. They could barely skate, never mind dominate.

The body hasn't changed in broad terms, but the players are taller and stronger than they were. Some of this is down to better child nutrition and sports science, and maybe that is all there is to it. Or steroids in the meat! If Bobby Orr had come up in our era, maybe he'd be 6'3" 215 or something. But I just know that every year I teach, the teenagers seem to get taller and whereas I am an average height male for my generation (b. 1969) I am considered on the short side by the daughter's generational standards

 

[CharaBadSenyshynGawd]

Wild turn this has taken

 

[jgatie]

Hey it's seems to be the general consensus here the game was at it's peak then so Im gonna just agree to disagree. I don't think there is a chance to change some minds here. There were some failed generals in the past so it must be so

Strawman argument to avoid that there are factors at work here besides talent. Don't cop out, explain those videos - If the talent is so much better today, why are they not able to outperform the older athletes using those ancient shoes on that track or in those crummy skates?

 

[BostonBob]

For those of you that crapped on Sweeney for saying that Krejci might return at some point it looks like he's not the only one thinking this.

from tsn.ca:

Boston Bruins head coach Bruce Cassidy remains hopeful centre David Krejci could return to the team later this season after signing in the Czech Republic last month.

Speaking to TSN Radio 1200 Ottawa on Tuesday, Cassidy said Krejci told the team earlier in the off-season he was interested in moving his family back to his native country.

“He did not close the door on returning back,” Cassidy said. “I don’t know if that will happen or when it will happen at all, but he didn’t say I’m retiring and done from the National Hockey League. So, that’s good news for us in the sense that maybe in a couple of months, he’ll feel satisfied with what he needed to do, or maybe not.”

In 51 games last season, the 35-year-old Krejci recorded eight goals and 44 points while playing out the last of a six-year, $43.5 million contract. He added two goals and nine points in 11 playoff games.

The Bruins have just over $1 million in cap space remaining after signing Nick Foligno, Erik Haula, Tomas Nosek and Linus Ullmark, among others, in free agency. It remains unclear who will fill Krejci's place as second-line centre, though.

“So we’re going to go about our business. (General manager Don Sweeney) signed some free agents, we added some depth,” Cassidy added. “We have a good young player in (Jason) Studnicka; Charlie Coyle could move up. So we’ll see where we can fill that hole and see where David’s at a little later here in the season.”

In 962 career NHL games, Krejci has 215 goals and 730 points, all with Boston. He won the Stanley Cup with the Bruins in 2011.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Strawman argument to avoid that there are factors at work here besides talent. Don't cop out, explain those videos - If the talent is so much better today, why are they not able to outperform the older athletes using those ancient shoes on that track or in those crummy skates?

If you give Krejci bad Skates and a wood stick he'll still skate circles around those players, and also the elite scorers of this era would too. How many goals do you think Ovechkin would put up in that era

 

[finchster]

If you give Krejci bad Skates and a wood stick he'll still skate circles around those players, and also the elite scorers of this era would too. How many goals do you think Ovechkin would put up in that era

Doubling down on derp I see.

 

[jgatie]

If you give Krejci bad Skates and a wood stick he'll still skate circles around those players, and also the elite scorers of this era would too. How many goals do you think Ovechkin would put up in that era

And yet two players (one an AHL level pro) who actually tried those skates were not able to skate circles around anything. So I'm afraid I have to go with the actual evidence instead of your fevered imagination.

As to the wooden sticks -